Legalize Marijuana?

[Father Heathen]

should morphene use be allowed without a doctor's direct supervision?

No, but Tylenol use is allowed without a doctor's direct supervision.

And removing laws just so that crime is reduced isn't entirely sensible. The crime would still be enacted, the only difference is that it would be legal. Heh... Making crime legal is the same as advocating anarchy in the end.

The thing is that a victimless "crime" shouldn't even be considered a crime at all. It's irrational and unjustified.

We wouldn't want to legalise it blindly, now, would we?

No one is asking to legalize it "blindly". There is already more than enough reason to legalize it even without the potential medical benefits.

No, just no. :no:

Yes, just yes. The fact that THC is far less unhealthy, far less harmful, far less addictive, and far less intoxicating/uninhibiting/inebriating/debilitating, etc. than alcohol is a clear and obvious one. Have you not ever heard of alcoholism, domestic violence, liver disease, or DUIs? Cannabis has no such problems.
I'm afraid I'm going to have to trust solid science over some random teenager on the internet, especially one who's had no personal experience with either. I don't tell you how the weather is in Australia, do I?

Here are some FAQs to clear up your confusion:
FAQ's - NORML
Erowid Cannabis Vault : Cannabis FAQ

 

[DarkSun]

No, but Tylenol use is allowed without a doctor's direct supervision.

No, but as far as I know, Tylenol is a prescribed medication because it is potentially harmful. Now I'm not exactly sure what you're suggesting, but do you mean to say that Marijuana shouldn't even be prescribed?

The thing is that a victimless "crime" shouldn't even be considered a crime at all. It's irrational and unjustified.

But there are victims of marijuana abuse.

And when a person develops a long-term psychological dependency on marijuana, I think they're going to have a hard time not abusing. Considering that there are other medicinal products that could be used in its place, perhaps Marijuana shouldn't be used in this area unless its negative properties can be proven to exist (or be non-existent); and we can develop means of prevention, such as the dose allowed, and so forth.

No one is asking to legalize it "blindly". There is already more than enough reason to legalize it even without the potential medical benefits.

To make heshin sacks -- Yes.
To make paper -- Yes.
To ease pain - YES!
To cure cancer -- Hell yes.
To be used as an anti-depressant -- Well, if it's cheaper and all of the problems can be managed, sure.

For recreation -- Maybe, but with supervision. And if people start to show signs of addiction they should be removed from the substance.
To abuse -- No, just no.

Yes, just yes. The fact that THC is far less unhealthy, far less harmful, far less addictive, and far less intoxicating/uninhibiting/inebriating/debilitating, etc. than alcohol is a clear and obvious one. Have you not ever heard of alcoholism, domestic violence, liver disease, or DUIs? Cannabis has no such problems.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to trust solid science over some random teenager on the internet, especially one who's had no personal experience with either. I don't tell you how the weather is in Australia, do I?

Here are some FAQs to clear up your confusion:
FAQ's - NORML
Erowid Cannabis Vault : Cannabis FAQ

I'm not biting.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not biting.

Is that what you told all your teachers in school?

 

[methylatedghosts]

Alcohol makes you stupid and agressive.
Pot makes you slow.

I think I would prefer being slow to being stupidly aggressive.

 

[DarkSun]

Is that what you told all your teachers in school?

I actually got along fairly well with my teachers, and I should get along well with my professors when uni starts.

But isn't this thread about marijuana? I didn't realise that trying to coax a reaction out of people fell under that topic.

 

[Father Heathen]

I actually got along fairly well with my teachers, and I'm loving my professors now. But isn't this thread about marijuana? I didn't realise that trying to coax a reaction out of people fell under that topic.

Yes, and I was trying to share some facts and information with you, but you appear to have no interest in such things.

 

[DarkSun]

Yes, and I was trying to share some facts and information with you, but you appear to have no interest in such things.

Oh, how rude of me. Thank you for the links, I'll read them now.

 

[DarkSun]

Again, I think my main problem is that I don't understand why someone would want to artifically make themselves happy. And maybe it was the make-up of the people I knew that made them react so strongly to THC, who really knows? Maybe it won't have the same adverse effects on everyone, but isn't reality better than an illusion?

And when the illusion does have the potential to hurt you; any potential at all; then that is where I fail to understand why anyone would opt for a pseudo-reality over the real one. You can have fun without marijuana, can't you?

If THC could be used as a medicine to treat the injured, then I am all for it.

Billions of US dollars (per year) are spent for marijuana. This money funds the drug cartels of Mexico and South America.

It seems the US would be better off regulating this marijuana trafficking. By legalizing marijuana, the US could tax the buyer (like cigarettes).

Should marijuana be made legal in the US and if so, would it change your mind on whether you would use marijuana?

Anyway, sorry for bringing this thread off topic.

 

[methylatedghosts]

Again, I think my main problem is that I don't understand why someone would want to artifically make themselves happy. And maybe it was the make-up of the people I knew that made them react so strongly to THC, who really knows? Maybe it won't have the same adverse effects on everyone, but isn't reality better than an illusion?

And when the illusion does have the potential to hurt you; any potential at all; then that is where I fail to understand why anyone would opt for a pseudo-reality over the real one. You can have fun without marijuana, can't you?

How can you know that marijuana doesn't remove the illusion?
Maybe there is more than one reality and marijuana offers a glimpse into a different reality
These, I think, are impossible to know for sure.

 

[BucephalusBB]

but isn't reality better than an illusion?

Sometimes.. and sometimes reality is awefull.
Say wouldn't it be perfect if you could control when to have reality and when not?

 

[DarkSun]

How can you know that marijuana doesn't remove the illusion?
Maybe there is more than one reality and marijuana offers a glimpse into a different reality
These, I think, are impossible to know for sure.

No, I'm pretty sure that marijuana has an effect on the brain, such that your perception of the one reality is impaired... as wonderful an impairment as that may be.

Sometimes.. and sometimes reality is awefull.
Say wouldn't it be perfect if you could control when to have reality and when not?

I don't think it would be beneficial for the individuals involved if they were constantly withdrawing into a state of disreality, just to escape their own reality. And coming down... wow, wouldn't that be a pain?

You can't fumigate your demons, no matter how much you smoke. Sometimes it's better to face your problems than to try and drown them.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I don't think it would be beneficial for the individuals involved if they were constantly withdrawing into a state of disreality, just to escape their own reality. And coming down... wow, wouldn't that be a pain?

You can't fumigate your demons, no matter how much you smoke. Sometimes it's better to face your problems than to try and drown them.

Wow, those are some wrong thoughts there Darksun
Most people I know who either use or used drugs did not do so to escape anything. They were not constant in a state of disreality (so you call it, being high is just as real as not being high..)
To smoke is not to get rid of daemons (where do you get this stuff anyway? hollywood?) and not everybody need good feelings when having problems. You can feel perfectly fine before using drugs.

 

[DarkSun]

Wow, those are some wrong thoughts there Darksun
Most people I know who either use or used drugs did not do so to escape anything. They were not constant in a state of disreality (so you call it, being high is just as real as not being high..)
To smoke is not to get rid of daemons (where do you get this stuff anyway? hollywood?) and not everybody need good feelings when having problems. You can feel perfectly fine before using drugs.

I never suggested that all people are like that, only some. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was more responding to the previous post than making a personal statement.

I think this may have been the quote:

Sometimes.. and sometimes reality is awefull.
Say wouldn't it be perfect if you could control when to have reality and when not?

And I think we might have to agree to disagree on the other points you have made. Do take care of yourself, hey? Bye.

 

[BucephalusBB]

And I think we might have to agree to disagree on the other points you have made. Dp take care of yourself, hey? Bye.

You can't handle opinions other than yours easilly don't you?

You are talking about drugs and alcohol as pure evil while you won't let yourself into it. But if somebody who did drugs and drank alcohol explains something good about it, you automatically reply with the "agree to disagree".. (wich is becoming a hype here on RF, what a shame..)

 

[DarkSun]

You can't handle opinions other than yours easilly don't you?

You are talking about drugs and alcohol as pure evil while you won't let yourself into it. But if somebody who did drugs and drank alcohol explains something good about it, you automatically reply with the "agree to disagree".. (wich is becoming a hype here on RF, what a shame..)

Actually, I think it might only be this particular opinion....

 

[BucephalusBB]

Actually, I think it might only be this particular opinion....

Is it that you lost someone over drugs or alcohol then?

 

[DarkSun]

There are several other reasons that I dislike drugs, and most of them don't involve me. It's just been coming to my attention lately that human nature can be almost... well, barbaric.

I mean, read this:

The Stanford prison experiment was a study of the psychological effects of becoming a prisoner or prison guard. The experiment was conducted in 1971 by a team of researchers led by Psychology Professor Philip Zimbardo at Stanford University. Twenty-four undergraduates were selected out of 70 to play the roles of both guards and prisoners and live in a mock prison in the basement of the Stanford psychology building. Those selected were chosen for their lack of psychological issues, crime history, and medical disabilities, in order to obtain a representative sample. Roles were assigned based on a coin toss.[1]


Prisoners and guards rapidly adapted to their roles, stepping beyond the boundaries of what had been predicted and leading to dangerous and psychologically damaging situations. One-third of the guards were judged to have exhibited "genuine" sadistic tendencies, while many prisoners were emotionally traumatized and two had to be removed from the experiment early. After a graduate student (prisoner #819) broke down from the inhumane conditions in the prison,[2] and realizing that he had been passively allowing unethical acts to be performed under his direct supervision, Zimbardo concluded that both prisoners and guards had become too grossly absorbed in their roles and terminated the experiment after six days.


Ethical concerns surrounding the famous experiment often draw comparisons to the Milgram experiment, which was conducted in 1961 at Yale University by Stanley Milgram, Zimbardo's former college friend. Tom Peters and Robert H. Waterman Jr wrote in 1981 that the Milgram experiment and the Stanford prison experiment were frightening in their implications about the danger which lurks in the darker side of human nature.[3]


Stanford prison experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I read things like that, it really makes me wonder what it means to be human, and whether there is actually hope for any of us.



I find it quite sad that some people are inherently mindless when it comes to their own enjoyment. But... I understand that's a personal view, much more than anything else.

Marijuana abuse is just another part of the human condition that I want nor share any part in....

But I suppose that if all its problems can be managed, or even if they don't exist, then there really is no problem for people who don't share my mindset. There would have to be some heavy proof that the issues could be managed. But if everything can be proven without a doubt, then people should be free to do as they wish.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I find it quite sad that some people are inherently mindless when it comes to their own enjoyment.

..mindless..

Nothing on the bad or good or so..
But it took me half a year of seeing others drink and thinking before I took the first step and it took me even 2 full years before I had my very first joint.
Also, Marihuana slows your mind down a notch, agreed..., But it also makes you think in a different way, enhancing your thoughts.. (Or blocking, depending on the person)
If it were to block my thoughts, I would have chosen to stop with it. (after a while the enhancement goes away as well. That's where I stopped.)

What I mean to say is that it was hardly mindless..

 

[BucephalusBB]

Marijuana abuse is just another part of the human condition that I want nor share any part in.....

There are many things I don't want to get involved in. Banning it is completelly something different..

btw, again you chose the word "abuse".. I would not agree with abuse either..

There would have to be some heavy proof that the issues could be managed. But if everything can be proven without a doubt, then people should be free to do as they wish.

Nah, it's a risk. Like bungyjumping..
And just because it has it's side-effects, I think it is better that it has risks..
Still does not mean it needs to be banned..

 

[DarkSun]

Nah, it's a risk. Like bungyjumping..
And just because it has it's side-effects, I think it is better that it has risks..
Still does not mean it needs to be banned..

It depends where you bungee jump, really. Some places have a higher probability of containing a faulty rope.