Legalize Marijuana?

[Stellify]

Where can I get this hallucination causing weed? Even the most couch-locked stoners won't get any real hallucinations. They'll feel funny as hell and maybe have slightly distorted perceptions, but flat-out hallucinations? This I have not yet seen.

I know what you're talking about, but I've still heard of it causing hallucinations.

I've been around someone who had real, flat-out hallucinations from smoking marijuana. It wasn't cut with anything else, and as far as I remember, it was either plain schwag or MAYBE hydro. Nothing stronger than that.

The girl was a lightweight, and almost never smoked. That night she had way more than usual. I had to walk her inside, while she held my arm and pointed at a grassy spot in an empty field and told me about the tractor with little demons dancing on it that she was seeing.
It was pretty hilarious, and she was fine. She KNEW it wasn't really there, you know? But she was seeing it anyways.
She's never had another experience like that, and no smoker/user I've EVER asked about it (and it's been quite a few that I've talked to) has known of anyone else actually hallucinating like that. Most of them have trouble believing it lol

In any case, I think that kind of thing must be really rare....and who knows? Perhaps it was just her personal chemistry, marijuana, and another factor (recent diet or lack of sleep or something?) that caused it that one time.

Just thought I'd share

 

[Stellify]

And do you agree that part of the solution must be that these people must have medical cover? That insurances should charge them higher premiums? What about the nationalisation of the health system? Health policies reforms? Taxation won’t do it unless the government owns the health system. Or you propose that the government shares the extra money with privately own health services? Why do you say that it should be hidden from children? As far as can tell folks in here tell us that it such a good thing, that it is a right. The right to feel good I suppose. So I stick to “ don’t add to the societal problem that we already have with the legalisation of tobacco and alcohol. Perhaps educating user on the danger of the cheap staff, but this is doubtful, tobacco has hundred of harmful substances added but people still goes for the cheap stuff when money is tight, so how are we going to protect these people from themselves?

As far as I know, insurance companies already charge more for people who participate in activities such as smoking, just like they tend to charge more for people who have pre-existing conditions that cause them to have more medical bills. So...I assume the same kind of thing would take place for marijuana users, and I think that's perfectly fine. If a user pays more in insurance because they're endangering their health, that seems right to me.

Someone already answered your question about why one would hide drug use from children when you asked it a few pages ago, but I'll go ahead and answer again:
Because, despite the legality of a substance, some things are just inappropriate to bring around children.
R-rated movies, pornography, heavy alcohol consumption, explicit language, graphic violent images......These are all things that are legal, but not things to which I would want to expose my four-year-old (if I had one).

I am sorry to have to tell you. But cannabis is an opiate, so you have not quit it.

Yes it does function the same way, it is the dope reward mechanism, smoke, feel good (reward) When are you going to reward me again question? The locations of the cannabinoid receptors are most revealing of the way THC acts on the brain. Neurons are brain cells which process information. Neurotransmitter chemicals enable them to communicate with each other by their release into the gap between the neurons. Receptors are proteins in neurons which are specific to neurotransmitters, and which turn various cellular mechanisms on or off. Neurons can have thousands of receptors for different neurotransmitters, causing any neurotransmitter to have diverse effects in the brain. Drugs affect the production, release or re-uptake of various neurotransmitters. They also mimic or block actions of neurotransmitters, and can interfere with or enhance the mechanisms associated with the receptor. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter which is associated with extremely pleasurable sensations, so that the neural systems which trigger dopamine release are known as the "brain reward system" the receptor can’t wait for the next rash of dope (dopamine)

No, cannabis is most certainly not an opiate. Everything you take into your body has an effect on your neural activity, that's part of what your nervous system is there for. Juxtaposing marijuana and opiates and saying they are the same simply because they cause certain reactions in the brain is like saying exercise, chocolate and heroin are all the same. It just doesn't work, my dear.

As a participant in the mental health industry, you should know that. :tsk:

 

[Stellify]

Haha. No, I didn't think you thought I thought you thought weed was totally harmless. I kinda gathered your view from your earlier posts.

*Re-reads.*

Wow... That was the most redundant sentence ever.

Yes, yes it was

Anyway, as for the whole: "It dramatically effects behaviour, so it won't be used often" thing.

Do you think that the vast majority of people who abuse alcohol in a social scene want to function after their eighth beer? There are legions of people who still do this, and sometimes on a nightly basis. They don't want to function afterward (in fact, the aim is not to function ). But they still do it, for whatever reason.

Do you think that if weed became more accepted, and the legal system supported its use, some people would come to abuse weed as much as they would alcohol?

There are abusers for every substance possible...I think where my viewpoint on this differs from yours is that instead of thinking "Do you think the vast majority of people who abuse alcohol want to function..?", my thought process is closer to "Do you think the vast majority of people who use alcohol abuse it and don't want to function...?"
IMO, there's a big difference.

No, alcoholics and major binge-drinkers don't want to function. But I think there are way more people out there who drink socially without getting trashed (and/or don't get trashed every time they drink). They will only have a glass of wine or two, or they'll drink enough once in a while to get tipsy. There are those who drink heavily every night, but I don't think that's the majority of alcohol users, you know?

Same thing with marijuana. There are already the marijuana equivalents of "binge-drinkers", and there always will be. But I think the majority of marijuana users have less extreme recreational habits concerning its use.
And, even with the "binge-smokers", the effects are much different than that of alcohol. Normally, the marijuana has (although I acknowledge that here your experience is different than mine) a more...sedative effect. I've known more potheads than I could possibly count, and because it's something I'm interested in, I've asked them all kinds of questions and been around them while they were using and such...and never have I heard of someone getting violent or truly angry while high. They just...can't. lol.
My point being, in general, even if someone were to abuse marijuana, the negative effects that person would have on others' lives is much less than that of an alcohol abuser.

There are a lot of people who do not smoke weed, and their only justification for not doing so is because it is "illegal". So while the "forbidden" allure might coax the more rebellious of younger people into using it, there might be others who will be tempted by the "legal" allure.

Some people could think: "Oh, well, the government says it's safe enough to be legal, so it can't be that bad."

And if mre adults coined this mentality, then the domino effect could be that their children gain the same mentality, and they come to use (or abuse) weed... and perhaps at ever-decreasing ages as time goes on.

Ok, I can see where you're coming from on this. Although I think that education could go a long way in minimizing this problem. I've seen a few studies (way too tired to go find them, right now...sorry) that showed that the more aware a population is of the health risks involved in using a particular drug, the less likely that members of that population will be to use it, despite availability increasing, decreasing or staying the same.

Although, as I said, I understand your concern about this particular point. It's something I would try to be careful of before legalizing.

But adolescants aside, there are a lot of adults who are negatively influenced by THC after having an "abnormal" reaction to it. There have been some people who have talked about it on this thread, and marijuana can't have gained such a bad reputation worldwide just because of some racial bias in the US more than seventy years ago.

Before it is legallised, we need to be able to prove that it is an entirely safe drug to be used recreationally by a significant number of people. More needs to be known about it.

Yeah, I had never heard of bad reactions like what you've described in this thread. I still wonder if it was laced with something, the reactions seem so bizarre for marijuana-influenced behavior. But I do believe you, regardless; it's something into which I would like to see more research done.

As I have said, I know marijuana has negative effects, so I don't think its reputation is based solely on some BS like "Reefer Madness". Smoking is bad for your lungs no matter what, and that (for instance) adds to its bad reputation.
More than anything, though, I think that a lot of the negative connotations associated with marijuana have to do with what being "high" entails....It distorts your perception. You're more...I don't wanna say "out of control", because that implies more chaotic behavior, which isn't what I'm saying...You're more, I suppose, "differently-minded" when you are under the influence of marijuana than when you're completely drug free or under the influence of something like caffeine or cigarettes.
Make any sense?

Weed changes your mindset more than something like coffee...with coffee you still feel completely "normal" and yourself, just a little jittery. With weed, you feel "different".

It seems to be that the more "different" a drug makes you feel, the worse its reputation tends to be. I suppose that could be for a number of reasons. "Different" is often unknown, and people fear the unknown. People don't like the idea of having others be "out of control" of their "normal" selves.

Anywho, JMHO. But I think that has a lot to do with its bad image. People just don't know what they're dealing with.


I totally agree with you on research, however. I'm always in favor of researching things we're putting into our bodies.

 

[ChrisP]

It seems to be that the more "different" a drug makes you feel, the worse its reputation tends to be. I suppose that could be for a number of reasons. "Different" is often unknown, and people fear the unknown. People don't like the idea of having others be "out of control" of their "normal" selves.

Anywho, JMHO. But I think that has a lot to do with its bad image. People just don't know what they're dealing with.

Sup milli, IMO you're right on target but this part is a symptom of the deeper social issue behind this.

Human beings are pack animals. Have been up to this point, unlikely to change. We usually roll in family groups but our society is changing around us at the moment and this is no longer true in a large part of the western hemispher and "developed" countries.

Unless their pack is drug oriented, a person taking recreational drugs is always going to be ostracised for 2 reasons.

1. The risk of your habit becoming a liability to the pack is a risk that the pack leader will find some way to mitigate.

2. You will not behave like the rest of the pack. Pack animals who notice a member acting strangely stay away from it. From anecdotal stories the discovery channel has told me I'll guess and say this is because there is some kind of built in pack defense to prevent the rest of the pack catching whatever is making you act out.

 

[Brahman]

I do not think that it should be legalized. people WILL misuse is, as they already have, and will hurt someone (driving with it). It alters the mind, and that says enough. we already have alcohal legal and look what it does, do we really need another mind altering drug out in the world, legal, and free to be used. kids will steal it and misuse it. i can only say that if it is legalized, many are going to want it illegal again.

 

[jacobweymouth]

.... After looking at the link.... I have to say, that's a pretty **** article, and I'm on YOUR side. The reason it's crap? Well, the use of alcohol and STD's or cannabis and STD's, has one link missing SEX. Irresponsible use of any drug plus sketchy sex is an automatic rescipe for STD's and AIDS. It really has little to do with what you're using to get ****** up. People who overindulge have higher risks of doing stupid stuff. That's the point you should be arguing. Anyway, the link doesnt' say anything useful - no actual medical document that links anything to anything.

Now... I don't have anything better, but I do have something published by Oxford on the subject involving both illegal and legal drugs.

Into the World of Illegal Drug Use: Exposure Opportunity and Other Mechanisms Linking the Use of Alcohol, Tobacco, Marijuana, and Cocaine -- Wagner and Anthony 155 (10): 918 -- American Journal of Epidemiology

it may make a little more sense since it's actually been published and has links to other academic articles.

That was a bad link. I was going to post a doj.gov link, but that wouldn't have been acceptable because the government is lying because marijuana is the left's Tree of Knowledge. It's fairly common knowledge that marijuana is accused of damaging the immune system, so I really didn't see the need for any data. But par for the course...

 

[Stellify]

Sup milli, IMO you're right on target but this part is a symptom of the deeper social issue behind this.

Human beings are pack animals. Have been up to this point, unlikely to change. We usually roll in family groups but our society is changing around us at the moment and this is no longer true in a large part of the western hemispher and "developed" countries.

Unless their pack is drug oriented, a person taking recreational drugs is always going to be ostracised for 2 reasons.

1. The risk of your habit becoming a liability to the pack is a risk that the pack leader will find some way to mitigate.

2. You will not behave like the rest of the pack. Pack animals who notice a member acting strangely stay away from it. From anecdotal stories the discovery channel has told me I'll guess and say this is because there is some kind of built in pack defense to prevent the rest of the pack catching whatever is making you act out.

I can see how that would make sense. I think it's a fairly useful instinct to have, in general.
Using weed DOES alter the mind, and the instinct to stay away from a person you see as not functioning in their normal way would make sense....If they're under the influence, their behavior is "unpredictable" to you. Keeping away from a potentially harmful situation is logical.
I know I am usually more alert to a person's behavior the first few times I'm around them while they are smoking pot or drinking alcohol. Once I get to know their drunk/high personality, then I relax a lot, because it's not unknown or unpredictable to me anymore.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ever been to Amsterdam? O_O .... clearly not the case there....

I haven't. But what I've read (and has been brought up in this thread at least once so far) was that marijuana use among residents went down from before legalization to after. I know they get a fair number of tourists going there to smoke up, but when you looked at the net effect, marijuana usage went down. The reason it might seem like it didn't was that there are now a large number of people who didn't smoke marijuana in the Netherlands who have decided to smoke there rather than somewhere else.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There was another that use to drink alcohol on the job, he was reported and counselled with a better out come, he never drunk on the job again, yet people here tell me that alcohol is worth than pot.

The problem with this statement is that the events you described the individual. Some people simple do not care enough about whatever to let something so petty get them fired. The guy drinking on the job decided his job was worth more than drinking, while the pot smoker didn't. Doesn't make it addictive though. It just means some people do not have their priorities straight, because I have seen people be fired for tardy behavior, absenteeism, even excessive phone usage on the job. She was warned though. Must mean that she needed phone rehab for her blatant addiction.

 

[KnowledgeSeeker]

I do not think that it should be legalized. people WILL misuse is, as they already have, and will hurt someone (driving with it). It alters the mind, and that says enough. we already have alcohal legal and look what it does, do we really need another mind altering drug out in the world, legal, and free to be used. kids will steal it and misuse it. i can only say that if it is legalized, many are going to want it illegal again.

We have numerous legal prescription drugs that people misuse but the FDA is not on a crusade to make those helpful mind altering drugs illegal.

 

[DarkSun]

We have numerous legal prescription drugs that people misuse but the FDA is not on a crusade to make those helpful mind altering drugs illegal.

There are a lot of studies which suggest that marijuana could worsen the problems for which it would be prescribed.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

There are a lot of studies which suggest that marijuana could worsen the problems for which it would be prescribed.

What about the multitude of studies that show otherwise? Why can't we make informed decisions with our doctors?

 

[DarkSun]

What about the multitude of studies that show otherwise? Why can't we make informed decisions with our doctors?

An informed choice with doctors? Doctors who prescribe marijuana are not making informed decisions, full stop.

Marijuana is just as proven to cause lung cancer as tobacco is, even if a causal relationship between marijuana use and mental illness is not as profound. There are a lot of carcinogens in marijuana, so it is a biologically plausible cause for lung cancer with prolonged use. That is a fact. And what's more, there is more than one person worldwide who claims that smoking marijuana has worsened their mental illness. I have provided links earlier in this thread.

So even if marijuana has been shown by some studies to cure cancer, to ease mental illness and to relieve pain just as well as morphene, there are just as many studies which show an opposite effect in other individuals (with regard to cancer and mental illness, not pain). It would seem that we just don't know enough about it. And this is why a doctor cannot prescribe marijuana and make an informed decision at the same time.

Until we know more about the effects of marijuana on everyone, then I'm sorry, but using it as a medicine might not be an entirely good thing. Especially when there are alternatives which do the job without the involvement of carcinogenic toxins.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Until we know more about the effects of marijuana on everyone, then I'm sorry, but using it as a medicine might not be an entirely good thing. Especially when there are alternatives which do the job without the involvement of carcinogenic toxins.

There are many drugs, that are FDA approved and on the market, that will eventually show to have side effects that are currently unknown.
Medical marijuana is very good because not only is it much cheaper than the many prescription drugs, and it can help with a wide range of symptoms and ailments. Also, eating or using a vaporizer removes the carcinogens.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

An informed choice with doctors? Doctors who prescribe marijuana are not making informed decisions, full stop.

Sorry, but I simply coundn't disagree more...

Marijuana is just as proven to cause lung cancer as tobacco is, even if a causal relationship between marijuana use and mental illness is not as profound. There are a lot of carcinogens in marijuana, so it is a biologically plausible cause for lung cancer with prolonged use. That is a fact. And what's more, there is more than one person worldwide who claims that smoking marijuana has worsened their mental illness. I have provided links earlier in this thread.

While I admit that most users would smoke, it is also just as important to understand smoking isn't the only method to consume this naturally made remedy. Vaporizers and dietary means allows people to utilize the benefits of marijuana with due risk management.

So even if marijuana has been shown by some studies to cure cancer, to ease mental illness and to relieve pain just as well as morphene, there are just as many studies which show an opposite effect in other individuals (with regard to cancer and mental illness, not pain). It would seem that we just don't know enough about it. And this is why a doctor cannot prescribe marijuana and make an informed decision at the same time.

Funny, many doctors are making those informed decisions with their consenting patients and have enjoyed, in relative safety, the benefits of those decisions.

Until we know more about the effects of marijuana on everyone, then I'm sorry, but using it as a medicine might not be an entirely good thing. Especially when there are alternatives which do the job without the involvement of carcinogenic toxins.

We know more about marijuana than aspirin.

Do you take aspirin?

Marijuana vs. Aspirin

In the book, 'The Science of Marijuana' by Dr. Leslie Iversen of the Oxford University Department of Pharmacology said "Tetrahydrocannabinol is a very safe drug," she said. "Even such apparently innocuous medicines as aspirin and related steroidal anti-inflammatory compounds are not safe." So if safety is your concern, cannabis is clearly a much better choice than aspirin. By eating it or using it in a vaporizer, Marijuana would be the wonder drug, Safe and effective.

Nunya Business!: Aspirin vs. Marijuana

Cannabis was such an effective analgesic that the American Medical Association (AMA) argued against prohibition on behalf of medical progress.

.

 

[Buttons*]

Jeremy, can we find a study that says that stuff about Asprin instead of someone's blog?

 

[Rakhel]

Has anyone ever thought of the effects it could have on anorexia patients?

 

[Buttons*]

Has anyone ever thought of the effects it could have on anorexia patients?

it only treats the symptom not the problem; same with depression

 

[Rakhel]

Maybe. I was just reminded of my mother and the months prior to her death. The one thing that upset her the most was that she had no appetite. Not that she didn't try to eat, it was just that she couldn't. No amount of prescribed medicine could help her.
Finally, her sister, the druggie, gave her a joint and convinced her to smoke it. She called me, thrilled, that she finally ate something. She almost cried she was so happy. She smoked it for the food, not the pain.
It was just a thought.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Jeremy, can we find a study that says that stuff about Asprin instead of someone's blog?

I'm sorry, was there something in the links that you found questionable?