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Legalize Marijuana?

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Zephyr,
I hope that you have toughness that discussing this require, but here we go:
You kidding? Weed is expensive right now quite simply because it's illegal, what with the risks of cultivating and selling it and all.
That's the idea to make it expensive curves consumption. Right? I you make it cheaper and more readily available will increase it consumption as user could buy more for the money that they currently spend, there will an increase in demand, thus the producer will fertilise and pesticide their crops with chemicals that harms health to produce more. So think again.
Even with heavy taxation (such as 50 or so bucks an ounce) it will still be cheaper than it is now.
The back-alley seller won’t have to pay or collect taxes so they would be in a position to compete, consider that you will not stamp them out of the market just introduce competition, they will lower their prices even further by not paying taxes
I like being drunk sometimes, but I don't go running out trying to buy alcohol all the time (it would be illegal at my age). Just because I can't go to the liquor store doesn't mean I'm craving a drink so bad that going to go get some moonshine.
I also abused alcohol in my younger years ( 42 years ago) and did not became an alcoholic, but there was a time that this became a great concern for my parents, I couldn‘t wait for Saturday so a could get drunk again. I chain smoked cigarettes at that time as well.

I also found opium pleasurable back in my druggie days, but I was smart enough to realize it was bad for me and quit.
I am sorry to have to tell you. But cannabis is an opiate, so you have not quit it. How much marijuana do you presently smoke? How much of the stuff would you use if it were cheaper>
Just because something makes somebody feel good doesn't make them a slave to it. Do you like sex or delicious meals? If so, I'm guessing that you must be going around raping people and stealing from restaurants because you're so willing to take risks to get your fix, right? Those cause good feelings that often affect your dopamine levels too. You act as though people don't have any self-control or free will. Shame
But I don’t use any stuff that impairs judgement, or causes inhibition of the moral rules, I did lots of wrong while under the influence of alcohol and I thank God that He took me out of that pit, in part the limitation imposed on me by the price of alcohol and tobacco help me. When I stated to work and earn money was the time that it became the great problem that distressed my parents so much. Do you work?
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
Price drops with legalization. Illegal growers will be out of business.

That will never happen, they will compete, all that it will happen is an increase in consumption of a drug known to be harmful to health and affect the individual;s productivity.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Yet the majority of people will get it legally because it's easier that way and the extra cost is very much worth not risking getting reared by the law. Sure some people will still commit crimes for it, but those people will be a minority. Price is based on demand, but do you really realize how insanely inflated the price of cannabis is? An ounce of just plant material can end up costing over 200 dollars. That is ridiculous. Once the criminal risk is removed, dealers will have a hell of time still making a profit, even with high taxes. Compared to now anyways.


in the UK a Packet of cigarrettes cost about £4.50 smuggled ciggarrettes are half that price. how many ordinary people do you think resist that price? so if cannabis is legal who is going to sell it?
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Where is the data that it kills healthy cells at random?

Effects on the Lungs

Numerous studies have shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. In fact, marijuana smoke contains 50 to 70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke. Marijuana users usually inhale more deeply and hold their breath longer than tobacco smokers do, which further increases the lungs’ exposure to carcinogenic smoke. Marijuana smokers show dysregulated growth of epithelial cells in their lung tissue, which could lead to cancer;8 however, a recent case-controlled study found no positive associations between marijuana use and lung, upper respiratory, or upper digestive tract cancers.9 Thus, the link between marijuana smoking and these cancers remains unsubstantiated at this time.

Nonetheless, marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems as tobacco smokers, such as daily cough and phlegm production, more frequent acute chest illness, a heightened risk of lung infections, and a greater tendency toward obstructed airways. A study of 450 individuals found that people who smoke marijuana frequently but do not smoke tobacco have more health problems and miss more days of work than nonsmokers.10 Many of the extra sick days among the marijuana smokers in the study were for respiratory illnesses.



~ InfoFacts - Marijuana
Marijuana is significantly less addictive and harmful than alcohol. Also, unlike the other substances, there is no known case of anyone dying from THC itself, whereas people have even died from caffeine.
There is no evidence of anyone dying directly of THC.

And people have to drink about 80 cups of coffee to overdose on caffeine, so by the way, I think you're full of BS. :D
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Not the most scientific graph (if only for the too-vague "seriousness" ratings) but still worth posting.

mr2qut.gif


How did Henningfield et al come up with their measurements for the y-axis?

Did he just grab a random sample and say: "Place your view on the societal tolerance of marijuana on a scale of one to six, one being the least serious, six being the most serious."?

Because to say that people are less tolerant of caffeine than they are of marijuana seems to conflict with common sense and everything I've heard from others.

But that being said... nicotene use is evidently just as tolerated than cocaine use according to that graph.

Does that sound right to you?
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
Hahahaha. :D

I think it depends on your tolerance. Maybe you could build up to eighty cups a day.

But that could get expensive. :p

Coffee is free at work :D

But then I must not allow my boss to know. 80 cups of coffee in 8 hours a day would mean 10 coffee per hour. that would be 6 minutes per coffee. Taking about 3 minuets to finish a hot coffee means I would be drinking half the time :D
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
Coffee is free at work :D

But then I must not allow my boss to know. 80 cups of coffee in 8 hours a day would mean 10 coffee per hour. that would be 6 minutes per coffee. Taking about 3 minuets to finish a hot coffee means I would be drinking half the time :D

:eek: I just thought about something.. If I would be drinking coffee for half the day, I would definatelly need the other half for visiting the toilet :eek:
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
I don't think it would be used as widely as tobacco...I think the fact that weed makes you high if you smoke/ingest it is a turn-off for many people. Tobacco can give people a "buzz", but it isn't the same as the distortion you get with pot: you still function normally. JMO, but I think the fact that weed changes one's perception/behavior/etc. will prevent it from being used as much as tobacco products currently are. Also, the fact that it is less addictive....

Also, I wouldn't argue that weed is "completely harmless" to anyone. Even if the legal age for smoking it was 21+, I know there are still going to be negative effects.....
Just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was claiming it was totally harmless :D

Oh, okay, I get'cha. :D

Haha. No, I didn't think you thought I thought you thought weed was totally harmless. I kinda gathered your view from your earlier posts.

*Re-reads.*

Wow... That was the most redundant sentence ever. :p

Anyway, as for the whole: "It dramatically effects behaviour, so it won't be used often" thing.

Do you think that the vast majority of people who abuse alcohol in a social scene want to function after their eighth beer? There are legions of people who still do this, and sometimes on a nightly basis. They don't want to function afterward (in fact, the aim is not to function :p). But they still do it, for whatever reason.

Do you think that if weed became more accepted, and the legal system supported its use, some people would come to abuse weed as much as they would alcohol?

I can see how making it accepted would definitely cause a lot of people to justify its use and abuse if it; and when adolescants begin to use it, there may be negative effects on their brain development.


As far as the influence on kids goes...I don't know. It's kind of hard for me to say. I've know a lot of kids who have parents that smoke/drink, and because of that, the kids do it less: either as a result of bad experiences, or simply because it doesn't have that "forbidden" allure to it.
On the other hand, I'm sure there are many kids out there who use drugs because they grew up in a household where drug use was acceptable or encouraged.

Although I would think that in cases where it was encouraged, drugs would be done anyways...whether it was illegal or not. Also, in those kinds of situations, the kids aren't really educated on it.... Whereas perhaps in a household where the parents would smoke a J on special occasions (if it was made legal), then I would expect the kid to be much more knowledgeable about the drug and the effects it has...
Make any sense?

There are a lot of people who do not smoke weed, and their only justification for not doing so is because it is "illegal". So while the "forbidden" allure might coax the more rebellious of younger people into using it, there might be others who will be tempted by the "legal" allure.

Some people could think: "Oh, well, the government says it's safe enough to be legal, so it can't be that bad."

And if mre adults coined this mentality, then the domino effect could be that their children gain the same mentality, and they come to use (or abuse) weed... and perhaps at ever-decreasing ages as time goes on.




But adolescants aside, there are a lot of adults who are negatively influenced by THC after having an "abnormal" reaction to it. There have been some people who have talked about it on this thread, and marijuana can't have gained such a bad reputation worldwide just because of some racial bias in the US more than seventy years ago.

Before it is legallised, we need to be able to prove that it is an entirely safe drug to be used recreationally by a significant number of people. More needs to be known about it.
 
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DarkSun

:eltiT
Coffee is free at work :D

But then I must not allow my boss to know. 80 cups of coffee in 8 hours a day would mean 10 coffee per hour. that would be 6 minutes per coffee. Taking about 3 minuets to finish a hot coffee means I would be drinking half the time :D

:eek: I just thought about something.. If I would be drinking coffee for half the day, I would definatelly need the other half for visiting the toilet :eek:

:biglaugh:

You could just drink ten or twenty cans of red bull instead. :D
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Zephyr,
I hope that you have toughness that discussing this require, but here we go:

That's the idea to make it expensive curves consumption. Right? I you make it cheaper and more readily available will increase it consumption as user could buy more for the money that they currently spend, there will an increase in demand, thus the producer will fertilise and pesticide their crops with chemicals that harms health to produce more. So think again.
Not necessarily. You're assuming that people don't smoke just because it's expensive. I can get cigarettes very cheaply, with a whole pack costing less than even a mere gram of cannabis, but I don't smoke tobacco.

The back-alley seller won’t have to pay or collect taxes so they would be in a position to compete, consider that you will not stamp them out of the market just introduce competition, they will lower their prices even further by not paying taxes
Sure, if they want to reduce their prices that drastically. There is no way a dealer could make even close to the same profit now if it were legal. I'm not sure you get it. Even with high taxation, the cost would plummet so low that only people who grow large amounts of it could ever hope to make a big profit on it. Currently, one could sell an ounce of marijuana for close to or over 200 dollars. After legalization, black market weed would have to cost less than 60 or so. The point is that the tax will be so much more than the actual price that black market sales will no longer become profitable and thus not worth the legal risks for dealers.

I also abused alcohol in my younger years ( 42 years ago) and did not became an alcoholic, but there was a time that this became a great concern for my parents, I couldn‘t wait for Saturday so a could get drunk again. I chain smoked cigarettes at that time as well.
We've all had our rough times. Consider yourself lucky I guess. I've seen the nightmares that alcohol abuse can cause.

I am sorry to have to tell you. But cannabis is an opiate, so you have not quit it. How much marijuana do you presently smoke? How much of the stuff would you use if it were cheaper>
Lol what? Do you even know what opiate means? THC isn't even close to chemically similar to opiates. They don't function the same way either. As for usage, I would use the same amount because I found what works for me and have no desire to smoke any more. The only difference legalizing it will have is make it easier on the wallet and prevent me from being arrested for taking what is (for me) a beneficial medicine.

But I don’t use any stuff that impairs judgement, or causes inhibition of the moral rules, I did lots of wrong while under the influence of alcohol and I thank God that He took me out of that pit, in part the limitation imposed on me by the price of alcohol and tobacco help me. When I stated to work and earn money was the time that it became the great problem that distressed my parents so much. Do you work?
I actually hold a few jobs right now to pay my way through college, and I spend my summers and free time doing volunteer works for groups like the Tacoma Rescue Mission and Love and Logic parenting programs in order to help people who are still in the situations I've had to struggle with in the past. The stereotype of the lazy stoner really needs to die out.

How did Henningfield et al come up with their measurements for the y-axis?

Did he just grab a random sample and say: "Place your view on the societal tolerance of marijuana on a scale of one to six, one being the least serious, six being the most serious."?

Because to say that people are less tolerant of caffeine than they are of marijuana seems to conflict with common sense and everything I've heard from others.

But that being said... nicotene use is evidently just as tolerated than cocaine use according to that graph.

Does that sound right to you?
It's not social tolerance, it's physical tolerance. You know, the thing that makes it so that you need more of something to have any effect? That graph only records physical effects.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Also, just because it takes a ton of caffeine to kill you doesn't mean it takes much to make you very sick. Compare that to THC, which CAN NOT kill you under any sort of normal circumstances. One could be forced to smoke pounds of the world's strongest hash and not die of a THC overdose. It can make you uncomfortable if you smoke too much, but it will not kill you, even if you tried really really hard.

Edit: ever thought that reasonable drug education that stresses moderation just as they do with alcohol would help? When I had to go through DARE, they made weed sound a lot cooler than it actually is. Teaching a program that stresses harm prevention (such as don't smoke as a kid, don't smoke too much, etc.) will not only make weed a less "cool" thing to do, but also reduce the amount of usage. The Netherlands has less cannabis smokers per capita than we do, yet it's legal there. They have less smokers because it's not some cool forbidden thing.
 
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DarkSun

:eltiT
Not necessarily. You're assuming that people don't smoke just because it's expensive. I can get cigarettes very cheaply, with a whole pack costing less than even a mere gram of cannabis, but I don't smoke tobacco.

Sure, if they want to reduce their prices that drastically. There is no way a dealer could make even close to the same profit now if it were legal. I'm not sure you get it. Even with high taxation, the cost would plummet so low that only people who grow large amounts of it could ever hope to make a big profit on it. Currently, one could sell an ounce of marijuana for close to or over 200 dollars. After legalization, black market weed would have to cost less than 60 or so. The point is that the tax will be so much more than the actual price that black market sales will no longer become profitable and thus not worth the legal risks for dealers.

We've all had our rough times. Consider yourself lucky I guess. I've seen the nightmares that alcohol abuse can cause.

Lol what? Do you even know what opiate means? THC isn't even close to chemically similar to opiates. They don't function the same way either. As for usage, I would use the same amount because I found what works for me and have no desire to smoke any more. The only difference legalizing it will have is make it easier on the wallet and prevent me from being arrested for taking what is (for me) a beneficial medicine.

I actually hold a few jobs right now to pay my way through college, and I spend my summers and free time doing volunteer works for groups like the Tacoma Rescue Mission and Love and Logic parenting programs in order to help people who are still in the situations I've had to struggle with in the past. The stereotype of the lazy stoner really needs to die out.


It's not social tolerance, it's physical tolerance. You know, the thing that makes it so that you need more of something to have any effect? That graph only records physical effects.


Okay, that makes a lot more sense now. Sorry for not getting that, I'm a bit tired. :eek:

So how did they get all of those variables onto a scale of one to six?
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Okay, that makes a lot more sense now. Sorry for not getting that, I'm a bit tired. :eek:

So how did they get all of those variables onto a scale of one to six?
That's my one biggest criticism of the graph. Like I said, it's far from perfect. I can take a look for the study it came from, hopefully that should help clear things up.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Also, just because it takes a ton of caffeine to kill you doesn't mean it takes much to make you very sick. Compare that to THC, which CAN NOT kill you under any sort of normal circumstances. One could be forced to smoke pounds of the world's strongest hash and not die of a THC overdose. It can make you uncomfortable if you smoke too much, but it will not kill you, even if you tried really really hard.

Edit: ever thought that reasonable drug education that stresses moderation just as they do with alcohol would help? When I had to go through DARE, they made weed sound a lot cooler than it actually is. Teaching a program that stresses harm prevention (such as don't smoke as a kid, don't smoke too much, etc.) will not only make weed a less "cool" thing to do, but also reduce the amount of usage. The Netherlands has less cannabis smokers per capita than we do, yet it's legal there. They have less smokers because it's not some cool forbidden thing.

They're currently doing that with alcohol and cigarrettes. Unless those principles are taught and enacted by parental authorities, then it doesn't work.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
They're currently doing that with alcohol and cigarrettes. Unless those principles are taught and enacted by parental authorities, then it doesn't work.
You kidding? If by harm prevention you mean "smoke once and you will DIE", maybe. People need to be taught the straight facts rather than sensationalist BS, or else they're just gonna call them on it.

Btw, looking for the study the graph came from as we speak. These guys sure have done a ton of studies on tobacco. Might be interesting to read some other time...
Edit: A TON OF STUDIES ON TOBACCO. It may take a while to find this.
 
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DarkSun

:eltiT
That's my one biggest criticism of the graph. Like I said, it's far from perfect. I can take a look for the study it came from, hopefully that should help clear things up.

It's not really too important. If you want to find out for yourself, though, feel free to post it. I'm genuinely interested.

Anyway, I think they should have another variable mentioned: "long-term effects."

Marijuana use has only been prevalent since the sixties and seventies, right? Well, the long-term effects of continued use/abuse are only beginning to show.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
You kidding? If by harm prevention you mean "smoke once and you will DIE", maybe. People need to be taught the straight facts rather than sensationalist BS, or else they're just gonna call them on it.

Btw, looking for the study the graph came from as we speak. These guys sure have done a ton of studies on tobacco. Might be interesting to read some other time...
Edit: A TON OF STUDIES ON TOBACCO. It may take a while to find this.

With cigarrettes, everyone of all age-groups is exposed to the fact that there is a causal relationship between smoking and lung-cancer, that nicotene is addictive, that it gives you phlegm. That's taught in schools, too.

But a lot of people don't really care, because it's still a relatively socially acceptable thing.

If people want to smoke, then they're going to do it, whether it's made legal or prohibitted.

My problem with legallisation is that it's probably going to make more people want to do it, if it becomes accepted.
 
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