Legalize Marijuana?

[Sententia]

Legalize? I vote yes.

 

[emiliano]

Anonymous

Legalizing marijuana is something long over-due.

That is arguable, the proponents of legalisation base their strongest argument on the Netherlands ’s experiment, but this country has a nationalised health system, in it everybody must buy health insurance or be fined for not having one, but it seems that the agenda is that they want a similar system but they want all tax payers to pay for it, so no it isn’t over due, the health system must be reformed to make them pay for their recreation consequences, that is well documented and the main ones are: ill health and low productivity,

The argument, "But we'd have people driving stoned!" can be as easily solved as that of any other substance abuse. The control of the substances put into, and back-alley sellers, would still be a problem.

This is the other argument for legalisation that is been discussed, is there a financial gain to the state in legalisation? I took the position that regulating this vice will cost more to tax payers than prohibition, what do you think? Are you a tax payer? Are you willing to fork out more of your hard earn money to pay for their recreation?
And you are right “The control of the substances put into, and back-alley sellers, would still be a problem.” The OP envisage a financial gain through taxation, but it won’t be long before the legal marijuana will be more expensive than the one back-alley seller will offer and the problem will be still there just as you pointed out.

 

[Buttons*]

I actually use it medically. I have pretty severe anxiety issues (as in, very frequent panic attacks), and the benzodiazepenes my doctor prescribed me had terrible side effects (like pretty much being a zombie), and even worse withdrawals. They just weren't worth it, and panic attacks are really my personal hell. Worst feeling I've ever had. Fortunately, vaporizing a very small amount will abort any attacks while leaving me fully capable of functioning (heck, I did my SATs this way and still got a 1970.)

That's really good that you could find a way to function, did you also do some therapy or some other way of handling yourself? Personally, I don't think weed is the cure-all for every problem. I know people who have a chemical imbalance of one sort or another, and weed probably isn't the best thing for them. I know it would be stupid and tedius, but people should probably be tested to see how THC reacts on them before doctors prescribe weed for everything like they do for other pain killers. Opiates even, yikes! I know your doctor didn't prescribe it as a professional - but if that is the only thing that will help your problems, I would probably say "cool, do what you need to do." However, I think there's a difference between masking a problem and taking care of it - as in the case with some other severe disorders.

I'm cool with people who use it for introspection or just stupid fun though. I used to, but it's really not my thing. I guess it just seems kind of pointless, but if people have fun and keep safe about it, who am I to judge?

Well, I agree with you on this one. I think it's one of the most pointless drugs out there. Occasionally, I'll even get cravings for it, but I didn't even like it when I tried it. It's such a weird situation. Everyone reacts differently. I don't try to judge those that do, though they tend to...well... not be able to do much. (even the occasional smokers I know can't really formulate ideas once they have it... but my experience is limited.)

Other than use as a solvent, I haven't either. It's really more of a home remedy, like chewing on some ginger root or boiling resin to help a stuffy nose. Hospitals probably have more effective medicines, but these are quick and convenient.

I suppose. I have just seen a lot of people use it as a "cure all" for everything, instead of actually working out what they need, if anything at all. Have you ever seen that happen with weed?

I get what your saying I guess. I can get E or shrooms here no problem, even really bad stuff like meth or horse without a lot of searching. It's all really independent of weed's legality.

But I think it comes down to the reason we want to legalize it. If we want it legal because "everyone should be able to choose for themselves what is right for them" then it would be almost impossible to make any sort of stimulant illegal. I guess I wonder if that's a clear distinction we can even make. It's a fine line once you delve into harder drugs. Is it only the ones we find in nature that are acceptable? (IE, shrooms, weed, tobacco, yes, even alcohol) While I realize that most people who start with weed stick with weed only - that's not everyone. It *can* open larger doors to see what else is out there, but maybe that would disappear with the legalization of weed? We can only hope.

I should really clarify how I feel about the legalization of weed. Yes, I feel it should be legal both medically and recreationally, but I still think it should be regulated well. Something similar to how alcohol is would be ideal (On a side note, I think the drinking age should be lowered to the age of majority). Make sure minors can't legally get it, have growers lisenced to make sure people aren't being poisoned, and possibly even have a two-tiered system like many countries have with beer versus spirits (in this case, maybe marijuana versus hash).

I would be all for regulating it. I don't feel that it should become an Amsterdam-like state of being for everyone who just want to live their lives weed or no weed. That seems like a fair enough distinction to make. The only problem is, we just don't know that things would improve or not with the legalization of weed. Maybe it would create new jobs for people, make weed healthier because there won't be "mysterious" crap in it, as sometimes there is. On the other hand, it could become a place that is dirty, mostly a tourist location whose only function is the selling of the plant... Maybe neither of these will happen... we just can't say really.

I also wonder, as I do when I wonder if something is "right" to do: Is this something I would tell my kids to do? Is this something I would be happy to tell my kids about? Is this something that I would be ok with them doing because mommy did it? In this case... I go with no.

 

[Zephyr]

Let's ban alcohol because the costs are clearly far greater than the taxes we get from them. Same with tobacco. Might at well ban fast food while we're at it.

 

[Buttons*]

Let's ban alcohol because the costs are clearly far greater than the taxes we get from them. Same with tobacco. Might at well ban fast food while we're at it.

Those aren't realistic we all know it. Most of the people who say "no" to weed don't generally indulge in cigarettes or that much alcohol in my experience.

But I also wanted to note this: Do we want a place where people not only use harmful drugs like alcohol and cigarettes already, and add pot into that mix? Would it do more harm than good? Would it do more good than harm? Would we benefit overall as a society for the legal use of pot?

 

[Buttons*]

Ever been drunk? It's kind of like that. Well, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, as alcohol distorts it even more.

The only "drunk" that I've ever had which caused a "high" sensation was when I tried Absinthe. That's a differnt kind of drunk altogether.

just thought I'd throw that in

 

[Zephyr]

That's really good that you could find a way to function, did you also do some therapy or some other way of handling yourself? Personally, I don't think weed is the cure-all for every problem. I know people who have a chemical imbalance of one sort or another, and weed probably isn't the best thing for them. I know it would be stupid and tedius, but people should probably be tested to see how THC reacts on them before doctors prescribe weed for everything like they do for other pain killers. Opiates even, yikes! I know your doctor didn't prescribe it as a professional - but if that is the only thing that will help your problems, I would probably say "cool, do what you need to do." However, I think there's a difference between masking a problem and taking care of it - as in the case with some other severe disorders.

Yeah, I'm doing therapy as well, and considering trying meditation out to see if it'd help. Generally though, cannabis is an abortive treatment that has worked for me better than my previous medications, and without the wicked drawbacks. I agree that it's not really a cure though, and that's why I'm also trying to attack the root causes. Also, if THC will help somebody's pain, it should certainly be used over opiates. Those will really screw you up. I agree that people should see how they react with THC. If it turned me into a drooling idiot then obviously that'd be a terrible drawback, but so far it's worked just fine. If that changes in any way though, I'll reconsider things.

Well, I agree with you on this one. I think it's one of the most pointless drugs out there. Occasionally, I'll even get cravings for it, but I didn't even like it when I tried it. It's such a weird situation. Everyone reacts differently. I don't try to judge those that do, though they tend to...well... not be able to do much. (even the occasional smokers I know can't really formulate ideas once they have it... but my experience is limited.)

Hey, I know some idiot stoners too. Also, you'd be surprised what sort of folks use marijuana without anybody noticing. I know business men, professors, doctors, authors, and engineers that all smoke on occassion and you wouldn't know it unless you knew them personally. Not everybody who smokes is out and loud about it. I think that is one of the biggest hurdles for the cause of legalization. It's the idiot stoners that are the most visible, because there is still a taboo among professionals towards smoking, so they keep quiet or risk their careers.

I suppose. I have just seen a lot of people use it as a "cure all" for everything, instead of actually working out what they need, if anything at all. Have you ever seen that happen with weed?

Sadly yes. I've seen people who smoke simply because they don't like to deal with life, and I think that's wrong. I would actually recommend that people avoid cannabis unless they either have a legitimate medical reason to take it or they have their **** together. It's the same with alcohol once again. If somebody is using it to avoid the real world, that's nothing but harmful, but if otherwise perfectly-fine people want to indulge every now and then, then it's really all just fun and games.

But I think it comes down to the reason we want to legalize it. If we want it legal because "everyone should be able to choose for themselves what is right for them" then it would be almost impossible to make any sort of stimulant illegal. I guess I wonder if that's a clear distinction we can even make. It's a fine line once you delve into harder drugs. Is it only the ones we find in nature that are acceptable? (IE, shrooms, weed, tobacco, yes, even alcohol) While I realize that most people who start with weed stick with weed only - that's not everyone. It *can* open larger doors to see what else is out there, but maybe that would disappear with the legalization of weed? We can only hope.

I really don't buy the "gateway drug" idea. I actually used to do a lot of stuff before I had even considered smoking weed. Of course I now realize that was a terrible idea and caused me a lot of problems. I think the distinction between "hard" and "soft" drugs is important. Things like marijuana and psylocibe mushrooms and lsd don't have any severe physical effects like dependencies or withdrawals, so I support their legalization and regulation. Other things like amphetamines, opiates, and cocaine are extremely addictive and dangerous, and I support keeping them illegal. My mom is a social worker and I volunteer with her frequently during breaks, and I've seen the sort of trouble things like heroin and methamphetamine do to people. I don't know a single person who has taken either for any amount of time and still functioned normally in society. On the other hand I've seen oodles and oodles of people from all walks of life who have done alright after having taken "soft" drugs.

I would be all for regulating it. I don't feel that it should become an Amsterdam-like state of being for everyone who just want to live their lives weed or no weed. That seems like a fair enough distinction to make. The only problem is, we just don't know that things would improve or not with the legalization of weed. Maybe it would create new jobs for people, make weed healthier because there won't be "mysterious" crap in it, as sometimes there is. On the other hand, it could become a place that is dirty, mostly a tourist location whose only function is the selling of the plant... Maybe neither of these will happen... we just can't say really.

I'd assume things would be similar to the legalization of alcohol. People will stop buying it from sketchy sources because of both quality and price, taxes will help fund local governments, and as the taboo dies out people from all walks of life will no longer be afraid to admit that they partake. Legalizing it will help take the money out of the hands of criminals and put it into schools and health care and roads and other social services. It's win-win.

I also wonder, as I do when I wonder if something is "right" to do: Is this something I would tell my kids to do? Is this something I would be happy to tell my kids about? Is this something that I would be ok with them doing because mommy did it? In this case... I go with no.

Would you recommend your kids drink booze? I am greatly opposed to minors smoking cannabis. It's a very important and sensitive time in their development and they should go without filling their heads with chemicals that could potentially screw it up. You wouldn't give a 3rd-grader a bottle of vodka or a carton of cigarettes, so you shouldn't give them a joint or pipe either.

 

[Zephyr]

Those aren't realistic we all know it. Most of the people who say "no" to weed don't generally indulge in cigarettes or that much alcohol in my experience.

Eh, same here I guess, though you'd be shocked how many people who oppose legalization efforts see no problem with a drink here or there, or how many hypocrites think it's perfectly fine to pop vicodins while fighting the demon weed.

But I also wanted to note this: Do we want a place where people not only use harmful drugs like alcohol and cigarettes already, and add pot into that mix? Would it do more harm than good? Would it do more good than harm? Would we benefit overall as a society for the legal use of pot?

Everybody has their poison. I don't smoke tobacco anymore, and I very rarely drink (only in celebration, as my dad just recently got out of jail for some drunken unpleasantness). Just as I know people who just smoke cigarettes, or just drink alcohol. People will use pot whether it's legal or not, so I think it's better that we put the tax money we can get from it into useful services. Also we should revamp the drug education system away from the current DARE BS and give truthful, honest facts about marijuana.

The only "drunk" that I've ever had which caused a "high" sensation was when I tried Absinthe. That's a differnt kind of drunk altogether.

just thought I'd throw that in

Absinthe contains Thujone, which is similar in many ways to THC. The more you know!

 

[Zephyr]

I don't like triple-posting, but your mentioning of the safety of legal marijuana is a very good thing to bring up. I've heard tons of horror stories (mostly from people over the puddle) of "soapbar hash", often cut with toxins like plastic, shoe polish, dung, or all sorts of other nastiness. If cannabis was legalized it could be regulated to prevent this crap from getting into peoples' bodies. That way, not only are we raising tax money from sales, but also improving the health of those who would otherwise be smoking this dangerous crud.

 

[emiliano]

Let's ban alcohol because the costs are clearly far greater than the taxes we get from them. Same with tobacco. Might at well ban fast food while we're at it.

That's on the pipe line, you are right in thinking that we should start thinking obut it, but I think that the authorities a busy with the smoing of cigarettes that is another vice that is causing more troubles than it worth.

 

[Buttons*]

I owe you more frubals when I get the chance... thank you for taking the time to actually talk about it.

Eh, same here I guess, though you'd be shocked how many people who oppose legalization efforts see no problem with a drink here or there, or how many hypocrites think it's perfectly fine to pop vicodins while fighting the demon weed.

I used to be one of those people... but eventually I realized, with the help of ChrisP, just how crap that was. Now, I occasionally drink for flavor, and not much else. Everyone makes mistakes, and I've made PLENTY. I'll probably make more still.

Everybody has their poison. I don't smoke tobacco anymore, and I very rarely drink (only in celebration, as my dad just recently got out of jail for some drunken unpleasantness). Just as I know people who just smoke cigarettes, or just drink alcohol. People will use pot whether it's legal or not, so I think it's better that we put the tax money we can get from it into useful services. Also we should revamp the drug education system away from the current DARE BS and give truthful, honest facts about marijuana.

I dont' even really remember what they told us about weed. After being told it was illegal, I just ignored it in most aspects of my life. I thought, "life is complicated enough without indulging in illegal crap." It's the same reason I didn't drink in highschool - ever. I'm a HUGE oddity when it comes to how most people deal with life. It probably is best to tell people the truth about things and let them make informed decisions. I would want to know the truth about the things out in the world... but I think that's what parents are for.

Absinthe contains Thujone, which is similar in many ways to THC. The more you know!

.... Yeah, I tried it when I was in Germany... which was the week before I went to Amsterdam.... it was one hell of a month >.<

Absinthe is horrible to taste, and they've taken the hallucinagenic quality out of it, but it's a nicer drunk than anything else.

 

[Zephyr]

That's on the pipe line, you are right in thinking that we should start thinking obut it, but I think that the authorities a busy with the smoing of cigarettes that is another vice that is causing more troubles than it worth.

I support high taxation of tobacco, alcohol, and yes, marijuana. I also support outdoor smoking bans and laws reducing exposure to children. I think that since these things can put a burden on the health system, they should certainly help pay for it. That's one reason I support legalization. Otherwise people are just going to smoke without pitching in.

 

[Zephyr]

I owe you more frubals when I get the chance... thank you for taking the time to actually talk about it.

Hey, I'm enjoying this too. It's good to actually have a dialog other than "drugs kill you" and "nu uh stop lying". It's good to think sometimes.

I dont' even really remember what they told us about weed. After being told it was illegal, I just ignored it in most aspects of my life. I thought, "life is complicated enough without indulging in illegal crap." It's the same reason I didn't drink in highschool - ever. I'm a HUGE oddity when it comes to how most people deal with life. It probably is best to tell people the truth about things and let them make informed decisions. I would want to know the truth about the things out in the world... but I think that's what parents are for.

"smoke marijuana once and you'll be hooked for life" or "weed kills" or "weed will make you kill your family". You know, sensationalist BS that wouldn't seem out of place in a 1930's exploitation film. I knew it was BS even back in elementary school. After all, I knew my parents had done it before and they turned out fine. We are very honest with eachother. When my dad found out about my use he even got me my vaporizer in interests of stealth and saving my lungs (I'm an avid fencer and the vaporizer gets rid of any smell outside the faintest popcorn-like scent).

.... Yeah, I tried it when I was in Germany... which was the week before I went to Amsterdam.... it was one hell of a month >.<

Absinthe is horrible to taste, and they've taken the hallucinagenic quality out of it, but it's a nicer drunk than anything else.

I sort of want to try a little some time, just to see what it's like. I'm certain I won't like it (I like my hooch tasty and not-too-powerful). I've heard all sorts of stories about it that make it very clear that it is a different animal to tackle.

 

[emiliano]

I don't like triple-posting, but your mentioning of the safety of legal marijuana is a very good thing to bring up. I've heard tons of horror stories (mostly from people over the puddle) of "soapbar hash", often cut with toxins like plastic, shoe polish, dung, or all sorts of other nastiness. If cannabis was legalized it could be regulated to prevent this crap from getting into peoples' bodies. That way, not only are we raising tax money from sales, but also improving the health of those who would otherwise be smoking this dangerous crud.

This won't work because the legal weed will be more expensive and it price will be ever increasing due to taxation and the cost of regulating the good staff, once people get use to the feeling that cannabis can give to those that are already in a good mood (there is a reward that the brain get use to) and the receptor of the dopamine that get the reward can't wait for the next joint, and they will take risks, if they can't afford the good one they'll buy the doubtful dope anyways.

 

[TurkeyOnRye]

This won't work because the legal weed will be more expensive and it price will be ever increasing due to taxation and the cost of regulating the good staff, once people get use to the feeling that cannabis can give to those that are already in a good mood (there is a reward that the brain get use to) and the receptor of the dopamine that get the reward can't wait for the next joint, and they will take risks, if they can't afford the good one they'll buy the doubtful dope anyways.

Price drops with legalization. Illegal growers will be out of business.

 

[Zephyr]

This won't work because the legal weed will be more expensive and it price will be ever increasing due to taxation and the cost of regulating the good staff, once people get use to the feeling that cannabis can give to those that are already in a good mood (there is a reward that the brain get use to) and the receptor of the dopamine that get the reward can't wait for the next joint, and they will take risks, if they can't afford the good one they'll buy the doubtful dope anyways.

You kidding? Weed is expensive right now quite simply because it's illegal, what with the risks of cultivating and selling it and all. Even with heavy taxation (such as 50 or so bucks an ounce) it will still be cheaper than it is now. I like being drunk sometimes, but I don't go running out trying to buy alcohol all the time (it would be illegal at my age). Just because I can't go to the liquor store doesn't mean I'm craving a drink so bad that going to go get some moonshine. I also found opium pleasurable back in my druggie days, but I was smart enough to realize it was bad for me and quit. Just because something makes somebody feel good doesn't make them a slave to it. Do you like sex or delicious meals? If so, I'm guessing that you must be going around raping people and stealing from restaurants because you're so willing to take risks to get your fix, right? Those cause good feelings that often affect your dopamine levels too. You act as though people don't have any self-control or free will. Shame :slap:

 

[emiliano]

I support high taxation of tobacco, alcohol, and yes, marijuana. I also support outdoor smoking bans and laws reducing exposure to children. I think that since these things can put a burden on the health system, they should certainly help pay for it. That's one reason I support legalization. Otherwise people are just going to smoke without pitching in.

And do you agree that part of the solution must be that these people must have medical cover? That insurances should charge them higher premiums? What about the nationalisation of the health system? Health policies reforms? Taxation won’t do it unless the government owns the health system. Or you propose that the government shares the extra money with privately own health services? Why do you say that it should be hidden from children? As far as can tell folks in here tell us that it such a good thing, that it is a right. The right to feel good I suppose. So I stick to “ don’t add to the societal problem that we already have with the legalisation of tobacco and alcohol. Perhaps educating user on the danger of the cheap staff, but this is doubtful, tobacco has hundred of harmful substances added but people still goes for the cheap stuff when money is tight, so how are we going to protect these people from themselves?

 

[kai]

Price drops with legalization. Illegal growers will be out of business.

dont think so, price is based on demand ,take the UK for an example tobacco is legal but with high taxation theres a roaring trade in smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes.

alcohols the same, so much tax on it that people would rather buy stolen or smuggled alcohol. the legal stuff is too dear.

 

[Zephyr]

And do you agree that part of the solution must be that these people must have medical cover? That insurances should charge them higher premiums? What about the nationalisation of the health system? Health policies reforms? Taxation won’t do it unless the government owns the health system. Or you propose that the government shares the extra money with privately own health services? Why do you say that it should be hidden from children? As far as can tell folks in here tell us that it such a good thing, that it is a right. The right to feel good I suppose. So I stick to “ don’t add to the societal problem that we already have with the legalisation of tobacco and alcohol. Perhaps educating user on the danger of the cheap staff, but this is doubtful, tobacco has hundred of harmful substances added but people still goes for the cheap stuff when money is tight, so how are we going to protect these people from themselves?

Yes, I do support a UHC, and I think the taxes from marijuana should largely go to fund it, same with alcohol and tobacco. I feel children shouldn't be exposed to it because their minds are still highly sensitive developing, and marijuana use is indeed harmful to them. Alcohol is mostly harmless to adults in moderation, but kids shouldn't drink either. Marijuana CAN be harmful. I'm sure people who smoke all day aren't doing themselves any favors. The only difference between a medicine and a poison is the dosage, and that goes for cannabis use as well.

 

[Zephyr]

dont think so, price is based on demand ,take the UK for an example tobacco is legal but with high taxation theres a roaring trade in smuggled and counterfeit cigarettes.

alcohols the same, so much tax on it that people would rather buy stolen or smuggled alcohol. the legal stuff is too dear.

Yet the majority of people will get it legally because it's easier that way and the extra cost is very much worth not risking getting reared by the law. Sure some people will still commit crimes for it, but those people will be a minority. Price is based on demand, but do you really realize how insanely inflated the price of cannabis is? An ounce of just plant material can end up costing over 200 dollars. That is ridiculous. Once the criminal risk is removed, dealers will have a hell of time still making a profit, even with high taxes. Compared to now anyways.