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Legalize Marijuana?

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Ha, ha, ha... so you're actually trying to argue that NZ has magically more potent weed than the U.S. (Maybe NZers are light weights ;))? THC is THC, honey. There's no magical force field here that prevents botany and selective breeding of plants. Just because you happen to have a handful of friends who smoke nonstop doesn't mean they represent every cannabis user ever.
And in your other post you asked "Not in my experience... and how often do people only puff to get mildly stoned? OR just enjoy the flavor of weed?".. well, the answer to that question is most users most of the time.
in your experience. It's not everyone's experience. You're trying to destroy my point by strawman. Silly man :D

You also make this statement: "One of my points is that you can have a glass of alcohol and not even be tipsy.. this will NEVER happen with weed, that's not how weed works." Which is absolute rubbish. It DOES happen with weed, and IS now weed works.
wow, what a rebuttal!!

I think most people in this thread are well aware of effects of cannabis, and people taking a few 'tokes' just to catch a mild buzz is a very common and casual thing.
In your experience.

So all in all, most people here will dismiss your silly, unfounded notions.
As for silly "stoners" and their "knowitallness" - their "knowitallness" happens to be backed up by scientific research. Science: It's a GOOD thing!
They aren't unfounded, if we're going by science. The power of observation plus how much people ACTUALLY use, versus what others would have you believe are two different things. In your opinion, that means people who smoke to get stoned obviously aren't actual beings. In my opinion, there would be no other reason to use the drug.

Maybe I'm wrong about "why" people use the drug. I'm willing to admit that. However, I still don't think it should be legal, because of the problems I've seen it cause first hand. Some people are arguing that it should be legal as a medicine. Well, maybe it should, it wouldn't do any more harm than a coedine would, and maybe even less on ones liver. However, medicines aren't supposed to be used recreationally. Making it legal for medicinal purposes just so you could get some easy access for recreational use is morally wrong.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I said that it's impossible to smoke weed without the intent of getting ****** up, even if that is a "mild" stoning. Has anyone ever smoked weed simply because they like the flavor of it? Simply because they don't want to get high at all, but want to enjoy some other aspect of the drug?

I don't think the answer is yes. Is it?

See..you have an "in general" problem with people using any kind fo drug to relax or escape..

So you shouldnt do it..

NEVER ingest anything in your body at ALL..for the purpose of pleasure..or to escape..ESPECIALLY if its not "good for you".

Unless you restrict everything you put in your body as "healthy" and for no other reason than to feed your body necessarry nutrients you have no room to talk.

Love

Dallas
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
I have to agree with FH, it is easy to control intake, especially the more experience you have with it.

Legalization would also promote more knowledge about the various strains of marijuana. Some would be better for beginners, others better for more experienced users. You don't get that with the underground market in which you're just handed a plastic bag of who-knows-what kind of weed, in which you're just forced to experiment with what you've got.

Here's a hypothetical product information label, post-legalization:


Strain: Early Girl
THC content: 5-10%
Genetics: Indica-Sativa Hybrid
Effects: Head and body stone. Mellow, but not couch-locked like a full-indica. Good for beginners due to it's mild to moderate potency. Sweet, spicy aroma.
Net Wt: 4g
$34.99

Beginners: Take in small, single doses, at first, waiting 5-10 minutes in between to gauge effects. Repeat as desired.



On the street:

"Here's your weed, man."
It would be a nice label, if that's actually how they desired to label it after legalization. I don't think selling it on the street will go away even if MJ is legalized. But then you have to wonder... would people just move on to the next "cool" illegal drug?
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
See..you have an "in general" problem with people using any kind fo drug to relax or escape..

So you shouldnt do it..

NEVER ingest anything in your body at ALL..for the purpose of pleasure..or to escape..ESPECIALLY if its not "good for you".

Unless you restrict everything you put in your body as "healthy" and for no other reason than to feed your body necessarry nutrients you have no room to talk.

Love

Dallas
Actually, I do abstain from using drugs to relax or escape. :) I also am a bit of a health-consious freak, so I do what is healthy. Thanks for pointing that out. ;)
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
It would be a nice label, if that's actually how they desired to label it after legalization. I don't think selling it on the street will go away even if MJ is legalized. But then you have to wonder... would people just move on to the next "cool" illegal drug?

Or would you just keep eating and drinking foods and beverages that are "legal" but not because you need them?..But because you like them???And they make you "feel good".

Love

Dallas
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Or would you just keep eating and drinking foods and beverages that are "legal" but not because you need them?..But because you like them???And they make you "feel good".

Love

Dallas
You don't like my position, fair enough. :) I eat because I have to. When I put something into my body, I do it because it helps the body, and usually not for any other reason. Note, I haven't always been this way. I used to eat McDonalds and drink coke with the rest of ya. But I don't. I don't eat because it makes me "feel good" ... I don't know anyone who does....?
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
If you want, we can make a "judge Buttons* personally" thread to see if I'm allowed an opinion. That might be fun! What say you?
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Actually, I do abstain from using drugs to relax or escape. :) I also am a bit of a health-consious freak, so I do what is healthy. Thanks for pointing that out. ;)

I figured you did..(abstain from drugs).

Are you saying you abstain from caffiene..(completely)..no white sugar..no white flour..no saturated fat..no MSG..no "fake sugar" i.e asparteme or sachrin..no added salt..(only natural).no meat injected with hormones ...you dont take tylenol(acetamenaphen) or Advil(ibuprophen)(BAD for your liver and stomach)

Love

Dallas
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
You're trying to destroy my point by strawman.

My irony meter just exploded.

Making it legal for medicinal purposes just so you could get some easy access for recreational use is morally wrong.

No. What's morally wrong is trying to restrict people's personal rights and freedoms (all based on an irrational and unsubstantiated social panic). What's also morally wrong is the blatant hypocrisy of condemning a rather benign substance while condoning the use of more addicting, unhealthy and destructive substances like alcohol, tobacco and caffeine.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
I figured you did..(abstain from drugs).

Are you saying you abstain from caffiene..(completely)..no white sugar..no white flour..no saturated fat..no MSG..no "fake sugar" i.e asparteme or sachrin..no added salt..(only natural).no meat injected with hormones ...you dont take tylenol(acetamenaphen) or Advil(ibuprophen)(BAD for your liver and stomach)

Love

Dallas
Sometimes you can't get away from it, even when you try to live healthy, but I do try. I'm not perfect, but I don't have to be in order to judge a drug. I'm actually experiencing not being able to get away from weed whilst being in NZ. *shrug* go figure.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
My irony meter just exploded.
:p



No. What's morally wrong is trying to restrict people's personal rights and freedoms (all based on an irrational and unsubstantiated social panic). What's also morally wrong is the blatant hypocrisy of condemning a rather benign substance while condoning the use of more addicting, unhealthy and destructive substances like alcohol, tobacco and caffeine.
These are both morally wrong. Using medicines for your own personal pleasure, while someone who is in pain needs it, that is wrong. However, the choice will always be there, legal or not. It just depends on what sorts of consequences you'd be able to put up with to get the drug. I do think there is a fine line between protecting people from harmful activity, and allowing people to do what they want without any legal reprocussions. No one wants to see meth makers running the streets. While meth is NOTHING like weed, the point is that there is a fine line that grows infinately finer once more drugs are legalized.

Do we want to only stop at weed? Should all options be legal and made available to us despite what they can do to others? In my opinion, I think it's a VERY tricky line to cross.

It is also wrong to condone harmful acts on yourself. This includes McDonalds, Cigarettes, overindulgance of any sort. But the people who are slamming weed probably don't condone cigarettes. You're taking a very one sided stance on the whole thing, and refuse to see any one else's point of view.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
We don't have a problem with opinions, but we prefer that they be informed, substantiated opinions.
I am informed with the information I have. Still seeing the information, my opinion remains, also for the reasons I have. Just because they don't fit in with yours, they are not valid or "true" ... well there's no reason to argue or even try to if that's what you insist on.

Have you even attempted to see the other side of the argument? I sure as hell have.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Sometimes you can't get away from it, even when you try to live healthy, but I do try. I'm not perfect, but I don't have to be in order to judge a drug. I'm actually experiencing not being able to get away from weed whilst being in NZ. *shrug* go figure.


Just say..."I dont like to smoke pot"...

And stop being the "judge" of others..:yes:

There is not a thing wrong with not "liking" pot..

I dont like it either..(now)..I have no problem saying "no thanks"..If others want to smoke it..???..Its none of my busines..

Love

Dallas
 

Zephyr

Moved on
I said that it's impossible to smoke weed without the intent of getting ****** up, even if that is a "mild" stoning. Has anyone ever smoked weed simply because they like the flavor of it? Simply because they don't want to get high at all, but want to enjoy some other aspect of the drug?

I don't think the answer is yes. Is it?

Who uses alcohol as a medicine unless it's rubbing alcohol? Different strand altogether. Maybe the good stuff should only be medicine, and the recreational people can get the skunk :p
Well, I do kind of like the smell and taste, but I wouldn't smoke it just for that. Drug prohibition has made sure that that would be way too damn expensive. Though if they did have some sort of cheap zero-THC blueberry or sour diesel I might vaporize it, if only as a novelty...It certainly wouldn't be a replacement for anybody though.

As for alcohol, I didn't mean like rubbing alcohol. A shot of whisky can do wonders to an upset stomach. Whether it's actually settling the stomach or just making me not feel it I don't know, but it'd take more than that dose to give me even a slight buzz. The only difference between medicinal and recreational usage is the size of the dose.

It would be a nice label, if that's actually how they desired to label it after legalization. I don't think selling it on the street will go away even if MJ is legalized. But then you have to wonder... would people just move on to the next "cool" illegal drug?
Would you prefer to get some beer at the grocery store, or would you prefer to buy some of my bathtub gin? The only smoker I know who wouldn't immediately jump to buying it from a legal store is a fellow who's brother happens to have a hell of a green thumb. Besides, if it were legal, prices would plummet and most dealers would be out of business. Look at CA. If AB390 passes (which would legalize cannabis in California with a $50/oz tax), it has been predicted that the price before tax would fall to about 10 bucks and ounce. Even with taxes, that's close to 1/4 the current black market price of decent-quality marijuana. Dealers would have to produce huge amounts to make anything close to a decent profit, especially with all the folks running to legal channels for the variety and legal safety they would offer.'

As for the last point, I have no idea what to say. I don't actually no anybody who smokes weed because it's "cool". If they were doing drugs because they were cool and illegal, it wouldn't be weed. It's just too accepted over here to be "cool" anymore.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Just say..."I dont like to smoke pot"...

And stop being the "judge" of others..:yes:

There is not a thing wrong with not "liking" pot..

I dont like it either..(now)..I have no problem saying "no thanks"..If others want to smoke it..???..Its none of my busines..

Love

Dallas
I haven't judged anyone personally as you have judged me. I'm not judging pot smokers, I'm judging the drug itself. This is fine and perfectly acceptable since that's the point of this debate. Now, the next time you feel like teaching someone a lesson, do it outside of the thread instead of derailing it. Thanks ;)
 

jacobweymouth

Active Member
I already said I think it should be legalized, but...
No. What's morally wrong is trying to restrict people's personal rights and freedoms

I'm with you here

(all based on an irrational and unsubstantiated social panic).

So marijuana doesn't increase the risk of cancer, damage the immune system, cause hallucinations, etc? It's not unsubstantiated. The effects, I believe, on this country would be devastating.

What's also morally wrong is the blatant hypocrisy of condemning a rather benign substance while condoning the use of more addicting, unhealthy and destructive substances like alcohol, tobacco and caffeine.

I agree that it's hypocricy, as marijuana, alcohol, and tobacco are all dangerous. However, while caffeine may be a drug, it's a very benign one. Comparing it to alcohol and tobacco is... Words fail me.

So I agree that it should be legalized, as it's a matter of individual choice. However, let's not kid ourselves -it's a bad drug. You can't force people to be smart. If they want to die, their funeral.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
caffeine may be a drug, it's a very benign one.

Caffeine is NOT benign..

Its very addictive....and with "over use"..has many detremental affects on the human body.Including diabetetes..and osteo porosis(weakening of the bones)as well as mood swings..nervousness..loss of appetite..and "diahrea"..

Love

Dallas
 

Zephyr

Moved on
So marijuana doesn't increase the risk of cancer, damage the immune system, cause hallucinations, etc? It's not unsubstantiated. The effects, I believe, on this country would be devastating.
Where can I get this hallucination causing weed? Even the most couch-locked stoners won't get any real hallucinations. They'll feel funny as hell and maybe have slightly distorted perceptions, but flat-out hallucinations? This I have not yet seen. There is also evidence that cannabis use can actually fight cancer. Sure, smoking anything is bad for you. After all, burning plant matter filling your lungs can't be a good thing, but that problem is negated by using edibles or vaporizers (which are perfect for MM patients. All the speed and efficiency, none of the smoking problems).


I agree that it's hypocricy, as marijuana, alcohol, and tobacco are all dangerous. However, while caffeine may be a drug, it's a very benign one. Comparing it to alcohol and tobacco is... Words fail me.
I'm going through some pretty unpleasant caffiene withdrawals right now. It's not nearly as bad as quitting smoking or going through DTs (note: I've never had DTs and hope to never have them, but I've seen enough alcoholics suffer to know it's hell), but the physical withdrawals are far worse than one would get from cannabis use.

So I agree that it should be legalized, as it's a matter of individual choice. However, let's not kid ourselves -it's a bad drug. You can't force people to be smart. If they want to die, their funeral.
It's a bad drug for some people, I agree. Just as some people should never drink, and some people should stay away from caffiene (my fiancee gets sick as hell if she drinks too much coffee, while I do just fine so long as I don't try to stop). I do agree with your last sentence though, and that's why I'm cool with tobacco being legal, even though I think it's really a stupid thing to do.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Well, I do kind of like the smell and taste, but I wouldn't smoke it just for that. Drug prohibition has made sure that that would be way too damn expensive. Though if they did have some sort of cheap zero-THC blueberry or sour diesel I might vaporize it, if only as a novelty...It certainly wouldn't be a replacement for anybody though.
Lol, I suppose. Well, may I ask you why you indulge? I'd like to know the reasons, if its' not to get the sensation of being stoned. I know that some people use it to try and gain introspection, but to me, that sort of seems like a shortcut to actually working it out on your own. That's not a popular opinion, but it's mine.

As for alcohol, I didn't mean like rubbing alcohol. A shot of whisky can do wonders to an upset stomach. Whether it's actually settling the stomach or just making me not feel it I don't know, but it'd take more than that dose to give me even a slight buzz. The only difference between medicinal and recreational usage is the size of the dose.
.... really? I've never seen alcohol used in hospitals, or as a recommended prescription. I really do think there is a difference between recreational drugs and medicinal ones. But I think that if MJ is legalized at all, it would best be served as a medicinal one. It could help far more people in that way than it would otherwise.

Would you prefer to get some beer at the grocery store, or would you prefer to buy some of my bathtub gin? The only smoker I know who wouldn't immediately jump to buying it from a legal store is a fellow who's brother happens to have a hell of a green thumb. Besides, if it were legal, prices would plummet and most dealers would be out of business. Look at CA. If AB390 passes (which would legalize cannabis in California with a $50/oz tax), it has been predicted that the price before tax would fall to about 10 bucks and ounce. Even with taxes, that's close to 1/4 the current black market price of decent-quality marijuana. Dealers would have to produce huge amounts to make anything close to a decent profit, especially with all the folks running to legal channels for the variety and legal safety they would offer.'
I suppose you're right. It would be much safer to be able to buy it from someone in the know. However, when I was in Amsterdam, no one actually told me how strong things were, how much to take, what sort of thing it was. I was blindsided when I tried it.

As for the last point, I have no idea what to say. I don't actually no anybody who smokes weed because it's "cool". If they were doing drugs because they were cool and illegal, it wouldn't be weed. It's just too accepted over here to be "cool" anymore.
In Amsterdam, where weed is legal, I saw that they had sort of "moved on" from weed... and were selling back alley E and shrooms. Sure, MJ was legal... but it sort of paved the way for other sorts of illegal crap. This small experience is why I ask the question. If it stopped at weed in Amsterdam, I probably wouldn't feel that way. If Amsterdam was a clean city, the streets were taken care of, the general maintenance actually kept up, I wouldn't see legalization of weed as a bad thing. If they were able to have weed, and also make it livable for everyone, I'd probably be all for it, because I would see that there is no difference between a city of legalized weed versus a city without. Do you understand what I mean?
 
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