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Legalize Marijuana?

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Have you even attempted to see the other side of the argument? I sure as hell have.

I can see the other side of the argument, but what bothers me is inaccuracies and outright falsehoods, like your suggestion that nobody has ever smoked just a little to catch a little buzz, even though a LOT of people do. People can drink beer without getting totally wasted. It's exactly like that. Also, your suggestion that people smoke it "just to be cool and/or popular" on top of being false is insulting and patronizing.

Let me ask you something. Do you drink any alcohol or sodas, smoke any tobacco, eat any fast food or junk food? If so, you don't have much room to criticize cannabis consumption. If you're for cannabis being illegal, then you must also be for the prohibition of alcohol, otherwise your stance is contradictory and hypocritical.

I hope you've read the whole thread before posting in it.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
I can see the other side of the argument, but what bothers me is inaccuracies and outright falsehoods, like your suggestion that nobody has ever smoked just a little to catch a little buzz, even though a LOT of people do. People can drink beer without getting totally wasted. It's exactly like that. Also, your suggestion that people smoke it "just to be cool and/or popular" on top of being false is insulting and patronizing.

Let me ask you something. Do you drink any alcohol or sodas, smoke any tobacco, eat any fast food or junk food? If so, you don't have much room to criticize cannabis consumption. If you're for cannabis being illegal, then you must also be for the prohibition of alcohol, otherwise your stance is contradictory and hypocritical.
My brother smoked it just to be cool, it happens, get over it. Not everyone does, but it DOES happen. My mom tried it to fit in at University.

And to answer your question, I don't drink sodas, I don't smoke tobacco, I don't eat junk food, I don't eat fast food (Unless I have to... if there's nothing else around, say on a road trip. These things happen.)

I have a few glasses of red wine or something here or there, for the taste and usually nothing more. I dont' like being drunk, my dad was an alcoholic. I abhorr the irresponsible use of alcohol.

Are we done judging me now? This is the second time I've answered these questions.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
I haven't judged anyone personally as you have judged me. I'm not judging pot smokers, I'm judging the drug itself. This is fine and perfectly acceptable since that's the point of this debate. Now, the next time you feel like teaching someone a lesson, do it outside of the thread instead of derailing it. Thanks ;)


And Im not "judging" you..I said if you are under "pressure " to smoke pot..and you dont want to then say NO!

Dont smoke it..

Its not your position to decide for others..

Im not "derailing" antything..Derailing would be if I changed the subject completely.

Love

Dallas
 

jacobweymouth

Active Member
Caffeine is NOT benign..

Its very addictive....and with "over use"..has many detremental affects on the human body.Including diabetetes..and osteo porosis(weakening of the bones)as well as mood swings..nervousness..loss of appetite..and "diahrea"..

Love

Dallas

Yes, and that's benign when compared to our other friends.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
My brother smoked it just to be cool, it happens, get over it. Not everyone does, but it DOES happen. My mom tried it to fit in at University.

And to answer your question, I don't drink sodas, I don't smoke tobacco, I don't eat junk food, I don't eat fast food (Unless I have to... if there's nothing else around, say on a road trip. These things happen.)

I have a few glasses of red wine or something here or there, for the taste and usually nothing more. I dont' like being drunk, my dad was an alcoholic. I abhorr the irresponsible use of alcohol.

Are we done judging me now? This is the second time I've answered these questions.

How old are you??

And since your dad is an alcoholic..and your mother smoked pot..who taught you not to drink sodas?

I will get off this thread..Because at this point??I dont believe anything you say.

Love

Dallas
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Lol, I suppose. Well, may I ask you why you indulge? I'd like to know the reasons, if its' not to get the sensation of being stoned. I know that some people use it to try and gain introspection, but to me, that sort of seems like a shortcut to actually working it out on your own. That's not a popular opinion, but it's mine.
I actually use it medically. I have pretty severe anxiety issues (as in, very frequent panic attacks), and the benzodiazepenes my doctor prescribed me had terrible side effects (like pretty much being a zombie), and even worse withdrawals. They just weren't worth it, and panic attacks are really my personal hell. Worst feeling I've ever had. Fortunately, vaporizing a very small amount will abort any attacks while leaving me fully capable of functioning (heck, I did my SATs this way and still got a 1970.) I'm cool with people who use it for introspection or just stupid fun though. I used to, but it's really not my thing. I guess it just seems kind of pointless, but if people have fun and keep safe about it, who am I to judge?:shrug:

.... really? I've never seen alcohol used in hospitals, or as a recommended prescription. I really do think there is a difference between recreational drugs and medicinal ones. But I think that if MJ is legalized at all, it would best be served as a medicinal one. It could help far more people in that way than it would otherwise.
Other than use as a solvent, I haven't either. It's really more of a home remedy, like chewing on some ginger root or boiling resin to help a stuffy nose. Hospitals probably have more effective medicines, but these are quick and convenient.

I suppose you're right. It would be much safer to be able to buy it from someone in the know. However, when I was in Amsterdam, no one actually told me how strong things were, how much to take, what sort of thing it was. I was blindsided when I tried it.
Yeah, that's a real dick move. I don't condone people smoking marijuana or really doing any drug (including alcohol) unless they are appropriately informed as to what will happen. Weed has a really wide range of potency, from the crappy brickweed that would take tons to get high off, to big headies like white widow or the various haze strains that would knock even an experienced smoker off his *** with just a hit or two. I'm assuming you probably had some of the latter category.

In Amsterdam, where weed is legal, I saw that they had sort of "moved on" from weed... and were selling back alley E and shrooms. Sure, MJ was legal... but it sort of paved the way for other sorts of illegal crap. This small experience is why I ask the question. If it stopped at weed in Amsterdam, I probably wouldn't feel that way. If Amsterdam was a clean city, the streets were taken care of, the general maintenance actually kept up, I wouldn't see legalization of weed as a bad thing. If they were able to have weed, and also make it livable for everyone, I'd probably be all for it, because I would see that there is no difference between a city of legalized weed versus a city without. Do you understand what I mean?
I get what your saying I guess. I can get E or shrooms here no problem, even really bad stuff like meth or horse without a lot of searching. It's all really independent of weed's legality.

I should really clarify how I feel about the legalization of weed. Yes, I feel it should be legal both medically and recreationally, but I still think it should be regulated well. Something similar to how alcohol is would be ideal (On a side note, I think the drinking age should be lowered to the age of majority). Make sure minors can't legally get it, have growers lisenced to make sure people aren't being poisoned, and possibly even have a two-tiered system like many countries have with beer versus spirits (in this case, maybe marijuana versus hash).
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
My brother smoked it just to be cool, it happens, get over it. Not everyone does, but it DOES happen. My mom tried it to fit in at University.

Of course some do it, but "some" obviously doesn't represent everybody, so the point is entirely irrelevant. And there is nothing for me to "get over" as I'm not the one investing emotion in this conversation.

And to answer your question, I don't drink sodas, I don't smoke tobacco, I don't eat junk food, I don't eat fast food (Unless I have to... if there's nothing else around, say on a road trip. These things happen.) I have a few glasses of red wine or something here or there, for the taste and usually nothing more. I dont' like being drunk, my dad was an alcoholic. I abhorr the irresponsible use of alcohol.

So then alcohol, like cannabis, should be illegal as well, right? But if you think responsible and moderate alcohol use is acceptable, why not responsible and moderate cannabis use?


Are we done judging me now? This is the second time I've answered these questions.

Don't be a drama queen.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
How old are you??

And since your dad is an alcoholic..and your mother smoked pot..who taught you not to drink sodas?

I will get off this thread..Because at this point??I dont believe anything you say.

Love

Dallas
No of course not, you can't believe anything I say because it doesn't fit in with your experiences. I'm 21, but that doesn't change anything about my experiences. If you choose not to believe me, that's you choice. I decided not to drink sodas on my own. I decided not to do anything harmful on my own accord. That was my choice after seeing how things affected others. People who know me will tell you that all this is true, go ahead and ask Stellify or ChrisP. Or don't, because it wont' fit in with your judgemental attitude towards me.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Of course some do it, but "some" obviously doesn't represent everybody, so the point is entirely irrelevant. And there is nothing for me to "get over" as I'm not the one investing emotion in this conversation.

So then alcohol, like cannabis, should be illegal as well, right? But if you think responsible and moderate alcohol use is acceptable, why not responsible and moderate cannabis use?

Don't be a drama queen.
It sure seems like you are investing a heavy amount of feeling into this conversation. I'm not emotionally invested or trying to cause drama any more than you are trying not to judge me on a personal level. ;) Let's let it be, since you can't refrain from calling me a liar, and I can't refrain from having my opinions. Good day :)
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Yeah, that's a real dick move.
.... I didn't mean to be a dick when I tried it without prior knowledge of its strength.

I don't condone people smoking marijuana or really doing any drug (including alcohol) unless they are appropriately informed as to what will happen. Weed has a really wide range of potency, from the crappy brickweed that would take tons to get high off, to big headies like white widow or the various haze strains that would knock even an experienced smoker off his *** with just a hit or two. I'm assuming you probably had some of the latter category.
I think it was called something like "white widow" actually. I couldn't remember the name... but then I couldn't remember most of that weekend either. >.<


I get what your saying I guess. I can get E or shrooms here no problem, even really bad stuff like meth or horse without a lot of searching. It's all really independent of weed's legality.

I should really clarify how I feel about the legalization of weed. Yes, I feel it should be legal both medically and recreationally, but I still think it should be regulated well. Something similar to how alcohol is would be ideal (On a side note, I think the drinking age should be lowered to the age of majority). Make sure minors can't legally get it, have growers lisenced to make sure people aren't being poisoned, and possibly even have a two-tiered system like many countries have with beer versus spirits (in this case, maybe marijuana versus hash).
That, at least, makes a little more sense. I have to go to school now, so I'm sorry that I couldn't reply to the whole thing. I'll be on later though. :)
 

Zephyr

Moved on
.... I didn't mean to be a dick when I tried it without prior knowledge of its strength.
Lol, not you, whoever told you it was a good idea. It would be like if I gave a friend some high-potency hash and didn't tell him it would be a dick move.

I think it was called something like "white widow" actually. I couldn't remember the name... but then I couldn't remember most of that weekend either. >.<
Yeah, White Widow is an extremely potent strain. I've seen hash that was weaker. Even I wouldn't be okay with smoking any unless I wanted to spend a day laying on the couch being mildly uncomfortable for some reason. Real high-potency weed like that is really meant for people with a big tolerance already. Somebody should have warned you.

That, at least, makes a little more sense. I have to go to school now, so I'm sorry that I couldn't reply to the whole thing. I'll be on later though. :)
I'll look forward to it.
 

jacobweymouth

Active Member
Where can I get this hallucination causing weed? Even the most couch-locked stoners won't get any real hallucinations. They'll feel funny as hell and maybe have slightly distorted perceptions, but flat-out hallucinations? This I have not yet seen.

Never touched it, so I couldn't say. My sister was a drugee to the 'enth degree, and she has talked about it. I'm curious to know what you mean by "slightly distorted perceptions" -it sounds like what I'm driving at.

There is also evidence that cannabis use can actually fight cancer. Sure, smoking anything is bad for you. After all, burning plant matter filling your lungs can't be a good thing, but that problem is negated by using edibles or vaporizers (which are perfect for MM patients. All the speed and efficiency, none of the smoking problems).

Yes, but it does that by killing cells that may or may not become cancerous. That does not mean, however, that it will not cause cancer itself. Anyway, if there are not cancerous cells, it'll just be killing cells. And strict medical use would really defeat the purpose for many users.

I'm going through some pretty unpleasant caffiene withdrawals right now. It's not nearly as bad as quitting smoking or going through DTs (note: I've never had DTs and hope to never have them, but I've seen enough alcoholics suffer to know it's hell), but the physical withdrawals are far worse than one would get from cannabis use.

I've gone through caffeine withdrawal, and while it isn't pleasent, it's nothing like what I've seen and heard of marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, etc. withdrawal.

It's a bad drug for some people, I agree. Just as some people should never drink, and some people should stay away from caffiene (my fiancee gets sick as hell if she drinks too much coffee, while I do just fine so long as I don't try to stop). I do agree with your last sentence though, and that's why I'm cool with tobacco being legal, even though I think it's really a stupid thing to do.

I partially agree. Some people can't stomach alcohol, some can't stomach coffee. I even know someone that couldn't stomach Dr. Pepper. That doesn't change the fact that none of them are particularly good for you. Some worse then others.

I think we basically agree. I simply think that, while they are all drugs, and thus are bad or good to some degree, marijauna, Cocaine, heroin, tobacco, and alcohol are so much worse then caffeine, sugar, etc. that there is no close comparasin.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Yes, but it does that by killing cells that may or may not become cancerous. That does not mean, however, that it will not cause cancer itself. Anyway, if there are not cancerous cells, it'll just be killing cells. And strict medical use would really defeat the purpose for many users.
Where is the data that it kills healthy cells at random?


I think we basically agree. I simply think that, while they are all drugs, and thus are bad or good to some degree, marijauna, Cocaine, heroin, tobacco, and alcohol are so much worse then caffeine, sugar, etc. that there is no close comparasin.
Marijuana is significantly less addictive and harmful than alcohol. Also, unlike the other substances, there is no known case of anyone dying from THC itself, whereas people have even died from caffeine.
 

jacobweymouth

Active Member
Where is the data that it kills healthy cells at random?

Where is the data? Use your brain.

Marijuana is significantly less addictive and harmful than alcohol. Also, unlike the other substances, there is no known case of anyone dying from THC itself, whereas people have even died from caffeine.

Perhaps not, but the state of the military in the 70s and early 80s is a perfect illustration of the harmful nature of marijuana.
 

jacobweymouth

Active Member
I am using my brain, which is why I'm asking for the evidence that supports your claim. Or is it a baseless one?

No you're not. By needing to reference data for something that logic should show you, you're using someone else's brain.

The data, in particular a study done at UCLA, shows that marijuana does help fight cancer -by killing cancerous cells. That's the same way chemo fights cancer. What they did not point out was that the problem with chemo is that it kills healthy cells along with cancerous cells (common knowledge). However, that same thing applies to marijuana. The difference is that people don't get high on chemo.

Elaborate.

I'm in JROTC, and we were going over the effects of drugs. The instructors, one who joined in '72, and the other who joined in '79, were full of stories. My AI, who was in the 82nd, said that they were called "the jumping junkies". My SAI, an officer, said when he took command of his platoon right after joining, after his introduction to them, they started, literally, cussing him out -because they were all high. They talked about instances where tank drivers would get into accidents because they were high.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
No you're not. By needing to reference data for something that logic should show you, you're using someone else's brain.

The data, in particular a study done at UCLA, shows that marijuana does help fight cancer -by killing cancerous cells. That's the same way chemo fights cancer. What they did not point out was that the problem with chemo is that it kills healthy cells along with cancerous cells (common knowledge). However, that same thing applies to marijuana. The difference is that people don't get high on chemo.

How is it "logical" to make the assumption that THC randomly kills healthy cells? What are you basing it on? Do you honestly believe chemo and cannabis work exactly the same? Surely there are some medical or scientific studies that support your assertions? If it's logical then it should be fairly easy to explain how that works, exactly.

I'm in JROTC, and we were going over the effects of drugs. The instructors, one who joined in '72, and the other who joined in '79, were full of stories. My AI, who was in the 82nd, said that they were called "the jumping junkies". My SAI, an officer, said when he took command of his platoon right after joining, after his introduction to them, they started, literally, cussing him out -because they were all high. They talked about instances where tank drivers would get into accidents because they were high.
Sounds more like a discipline problem than it does a marijuana problem.
 

jacobweymouth

Active Member
How is it "logical" to make the assumption that THC randomly kills healthy cells? What are you basing it on? Do you honestly believe chemo and cannabis work exactly the same? Surely there are some medical or scientific studies that support your assertions? If it's logical then it should be fairly easy to explain how that works, exactly.

The government's National Toxicology Program actually said that more research was needed to decide whether or not marijuana prevents cancer. Basically, the studies all showed that the marijuana smokers in the study were less likely to develop cancer then non-smokers. The same reason I used, that is inductive reasoning, was used to hypothesize that marijuana may be the factor. There was nothing conclusive. The fact is that marijuana also damages the immune system, as chemotherapy does.

Sounds more like a discipline problem than it does a marijuana problem.

The indiscipline was caused, in part, by marijuana use.
 

Zephyr

Moved on
Never touched it, so I couldn't say. My sister was a drugee to the 'enth degree, and she has talked about it. I'm curious to know what you mean by "slightly distorted perceptions" -it sounds like what I'm driving at.
Ever been drunk? It's kind of like that. Well, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, as alcohol distorts it even more.

Yes, but it does that by killing cells that may or may not become cancerous. That does not mean, however, that it will not cause cancer itself. Anyway, if there are not cancerous cells, it'll just be killing cells. And strict medical use would really defeat the purpose for many users.
Like Father Heathen said, if this is so logical, you should have no trouble explaining how this happens.

I've gone through caffeine withdrawal, and while it isn't pleasent, it's nothing like what I've seen and heard of marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, etc. withdrawal.
Yeah, tobacco and alcohol withdrawal are far worse than caffeine withdrawal, but marijuana does not have major dependency issues like the other things in your list. Any addiction somebody can get from it is purely psychological. It does not cause physical withdrawal symptoms.

I partially agree. Some people can't stomach alcohol, some can't stomach coffee. I even know someone that couldn't stomach Dr. Pepper. That doesn't change the fact that none of them are particularly good for you. Some worse then others.
Yeah, alcohol sure is pretty bad for you. I'm not going to argue that.

I think we basically agree. I simply think that, while they are all drugs, and thus are bad or good to some degree, marijauna, Cocaine, heroin, tobacco, and alcohol are so much worse then caffeine, sugar, etc. that there is no close comparasin.
I disagree. Properly respected, marijuana is no worse than caffeine. The perception problems it causes are horribly overblown by the media (unless you smoke way too much) and it lacks the withdrawal symptoms that every other chemical in that list causes.

As for stoners in the military, that's entirely a discipline problem. Marijuana use doesn't automatically make you undisciplined and lazy like many people would lead you to believe. If somebody is getting high and cussing out their superiors, they would do the same thing if they were drinking.

Got any data that marijuana weakens the immune system?
 
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