• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Legitimate reasons not to believe in God

Heyo

Veteran Member
Besides formalism presumes the reliability of logic; however no logical system can (if Godel's Theorem is correct) prove itself to be consistent.
Actually ...
<nitpick>
Gödel proved that a system powerful enough to talk about itself can't prove itself complete.
(That's why it's called Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem.)
</nitpick>
 

We Never Know

No Slack
legitimate: If you say that something such as a feeling or claim is legitimate, you think that it is reasonable and justified.
Legitimate definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

In my opinion, two legitimate reasons not to believe in God are as follows:

1. There is no proof that God exists
2. There is too much suffering in the world for God to exist

I believe there are also legitimate reasons to believe in God as either position can be argued and justified with reason.

Legitimate reasons not to believe in God

-a god cannot be shown to exist


Legitimate reasons to believe in God

-a god a cannot be shown to not exist


Doesn't it come down to personal choice?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That was not my point. My point was that the God as represented in the Qur'an is not a loving God like the God of the New Testament.

In the Quran there is no demonstration of God's love, by God, for God's people. Instead, man must show his love for God by his own deeds. The notion of having a personal relationship with God is foreign to the Quran.

The Quran & the Bible on God's Love
Abrahamic religions teach subservience and submission, not love.

It's why Islam and to a lesser extent, Christianity and Judaism are so violent as I see it.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
That was not my point. My point was that the God as represented in the Qur'an is not a loving God like the God of the New Testament.

In the Quran there is no demonstration of God's love, by God, for God's people. Instead, man must show his love for God by his own deeds. The notion of having a personal relationship with God is foreign to the Quran.

The Quran & the Bible on God's Love

God doesn't seek you.
God says "seek me"

Jeremiah 29:11-14
13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you,” declares the LORD, “and will bring you back from captivity.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Abrahamic religions teach subservience and submission, not love.
Jesus teaches us that lying your life down for a friend is one of the highest acts of love.
Or something like that. It's been a very long time since I've read that. But yes, Jesus teaches submission and subservience, but love is indeed a very strong element of his teachings, like repetitively instructing his followers to love and take care of the poor, reminding his followers that how they treat the least among them is how they treat him.
And, indeed, some Christian leaders and statesmen have been moved by their faith to show love, care and mercy towards their subjects (building orphanages, promoting literacy, and taking care of the poor and infirm has bestowed the title of the Great to at least a couple of statesmen who weren't conquers but fierce defenders of their homelands).
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Jesus teaches us that lying your life down for a friend is one of the highest acts of love.
Or something like that. It's been a very long time since I've read that. But yes, Jesus teaches submission and subservience, but love is indeed a very strong element of his teachings, like repetitively instructing his followers to love and take care of the poor, reminding his followers that how they treat the least among them is how they treat him.
And, indeed, some Christian leaders and statesmen have been moved by their faith to show love, care and mercy towards their subjects (building orphanages, promoting literacy, and taking care of the poor and infirm has bestowed the title of the Great to at least a couple of statesmen who weren't conquers but fierce defenders of their homelands).

"Jesus teaches us that lying your life down for a friend is one of the highest acts of love"

Did jesus teach that or did men who wrote the bible teach that?
 
Last edited:

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
legitimate: If you say that something such as a feeling or claim is legitimate, you think that it is reasonable and justified.
Legitimate definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

In my opinion, two legitimate reasons not to believe in God are as follows:

1. There is no proof that God exists
2. There is too much suffering in the world for God to exist

I believe there are also legitimate reasons to believe in God as either position can be argued and justified with reason.
As @Heyo said, no one seems to know what a God actually is.

And that's not simply a problem for the Abrahamic God because there isn't one god, there are thousands, and through history countless thousands of gods.

So I think a very strong argument can be made that gods are something humans devise ─ to explain natural phenomena, like thunder and lightning, meteors, eclipses; and plagues and droughts and floods; and good and bad luck whether in love or war or hunting or fortune; and things that go bump in the night &c. As well, they usually form part of the stories of tribal identity, along with language, customs, heroes and folk histories, all of which promote tribal solidarity hence survival. And you can pray to them, which perhaps gives a sense of control over things that are not otherwise controllable.

But whether that explanation is right, or half-right, or wrong, it remains the case that God never says and never does, and has no description appropriate to a real entity, and that the world behaves just as if God / gods were simply an idea.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
I'd say lack of falsifiable knowledge about God.

To believe in God you have to have a concept of God to believe in.
Except how can you test what you think you know about God?
So if you believe is a concept of God, how would you know what you believe about God isn't wrong.

So if you don't believe in any concept of God your options remain open until perhaps you come across information that can be verified.


What if you were to choose your own conception of God?

As for testing the existence of God, I would suggest leaning on Him in times of difficulty and seeing how that works for you.
 

Ella S.

Well-Known Member
Just off the top of my head...

If God exists and wants people to believe He exists, He has a literally infinite number of ways to make his presence and wishes known in absolutely no uncertain or ambiguous terms.
This has not happened, and a God not interested in revealing His existence is as much a presence as no God at all.

If God really has a message for me or wants to tell me how to live my life then there are numerous ways to contact me. Human beings can visit my doorstep, send me an SMS, or even call my phone. God's free to use any of those at any time. I've even prayed to him and told him as much.

Believers will think this is a silly and odd request, that I clearly don't get how the whole "God" thing works. Well, neither do they, because they've never actually spoken to the guy, either.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Ask any human did you create creation?

No.

Yet you theory you got God in science didn't you?

Yes.

So science asks God scientists what's God then.

Men of science said coldest highest any one type of any substance.

So did you human man invent God as God?

No. As no man is God. Hadn't created anything. Said men.

As sex simply puts the human parent back into life. As new baby then returned parent from death says a scientific human theist.

As baby humans say as a creator I put back and recreated my own human parent. Don't even realise as they don't theory self presence first a human. Position exact.

No man is God a reason to be said.

No man is God said as it needed to be said no man is God.

Now did you science man create the highest heavens God?

Yes.

How?

Errr ummm he says I took mass very very cold many times over as a huge pressure by lots of voiding. Changed it. Gained a cold gas.

The reason my frustrated brother said no man is God and you did not theory the heavens into existence by man's control.

Egotists self possessed mind a human theist. No man is God reality.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
legitimate: If you say that something such as a feeling or claim is legitimate, you think that it is reasonable and justified.
Legitimate definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary

In my opinion, two legitimate reasons not to believe in God are as follows:

1. There is no proof that God exists
2. There is too much suffering in the world for God to exist

I believe there are also legitimate reasons to believe in God as either position can be argued and justified with reason.
So for #2: you're assuming a particular version of God?

I ask because suffering works just fine to support the conclusion that God isn't good - or isn't powerful and wise enough to prevent suffering - unless we're taking it as given that God MUST be good, powerful and wise.

Are there any other attributes of God that you're assuming here (or that you want us to assume)?
 
Top