Let’s talk about the Bible

[Brickjectivity]

Attempting to prove God's existence using Bibles as extraordinary evidence? This is not OK to me, although I used to try to do that. It is building a foundation upon sand, and many passages in the Bibles say to build our foundation in a very different manner. For example many places in the Psalms talk about studying Torah and being transformed thereby. This is very different from using the Bible as a predictamancer or God-detector, the way people do when attempting to trace predictions in Bible passages. People in ancient times do not spend time wowing over how sturdy their Bibles are, and neither should people in modern times. Since we are not supposed to base our lives upon signs and wonders, lets leave this dead subject in the dust.

 

[DavidFirth]

“HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO

MEANS PASS AWAY.” Matthew 24:35 NKJV ​

Independently of people’s individual beliefs, it is undeniable that the Bible has an incredible story.

It was written over a period of at least 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

But the most amazing fact about the bible is the way it survived. Most of our ancient literature has been lost due to the corrosion or destruction of the materials on which they were preserved. The Bible however, exists not only in its entirety, but in a well-preserved form, despite many efforts to destroy it.


- About 600 B.C. Jehoiakim, attempted to destroy the Word of God, but miserably failed. (Jeremiah. 36:21-32).

- In 175 BC the king of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes, ordered the Jews, on pain of death, to destroy their Scriptures and worship the Greek gods. But Judas Maccabaeus saved the books and led a revolt that won independence for the Jewish nation. (Today, Jews celebrate this event at Hanukkah.)

- In 64 A.D. Emperor Nero not only tried to wipe out the Bible, but anyone who professed Christ. He blamed them for the burning of Rome (which, he did himself) and ordered their mass execution.

- In 303 A.D. the Roman Emperor, Diocletian waged a horrible onslaught against the Bible. Every manuscript that could be found was destroyed. Thousands, including entire families who owned any of these were martyred.

- Jerome, in 405 A.D. completed a Latin translation of the Bible. In spite of being persecuted, Jerome’s translation lived through the Dark Ages. Anglo-Saxon translations of parts of Scripture, particularly the Gospel accounts appeared in England in the 7th & 8th centuries. In 1379 John Wycliffe along with chosen scholars translated the Latin Bible into English. By 1383, thousands of copies of the Wycliffe Bible were in the hands of the English. People who owned these Bibles were hunted down and killed.

- In 1524 William Tyndale resolved to put the Bible into the English of his time and distribute it throughout the nation. But, this being contrary to English law, Tyndale had to leave England for Europe. Printing began in Cologne. Tyndale was apprehended and imprisoned. In 1536 he was strangled and burned at the stake.

- In 1546 the Roman Catholic Council of Trent placed any printing of religious literature, including translations of the Bible, under the control of the church. Any who wanted to read the Bible were told to obtain written permission from bishops or inquisitors—not an appealing prospect for those who wanted to remain above suspicion of heresy. People who dared to possess or distribute Bibles in the common languages of their region had to contend with the ire of the Catholic Church. Many were arrested, burned at the stake, roasted on spits, sentenced to life in prison, or sent to the galleys. Confiscated Bibles were burned

- French humanist, Voltaire, (1700) boastfully proclaimed, "one hundred years from now the world will hear no more of the Bible." Yet, in the year of his boast, the British museum purchased a manuscript of the Greek New Testament for $500,000 while the first edition of Voltaire's new book sold for eight cents a copy! Furthermore, fifty years after the death of Voltaire, Bibles were being printed by the Geneva Bible Society in the very house where Voltaire lived and on his own printing press!

- Even after the Reformation commenced and Bible societies were formed the Catholic Church classified them with Socialism and Communism. On December 8, 1866, Pope Pius IX made this amazing statement: "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies....pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means."

Despite so much opposition, the Bible not only survived, it thrived.

The Bible has been translated into over 2000 languages. No other book even comes close.

With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time. It sells approximately 100 million copies annually, and has been a major influence on literature and history.


Some references:
25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls @ Century One Bookstore
The Write Journey: How Has the Bible Survived?
The Evidence Bible
The Preservation of the Bible
http://thoughtsacrossthegardengate.com/miracle-of-survival-of-the-bible.php
Manuscripts of the Bible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Bible - Wikipedia

Well written , good job.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The Bible however, exists not only in its entirety, but in a well-preserved form, despite many efforts to destroy it.

You can't claim the Bible was "well preserved". Your religion claims that from the time of the last Apostle until the 1950's it was full of errors and had to be rewritten by your leaders to make it right.

It wasn't well preserved, all people had until your leaders came on scene was a Trinity error filled Bible that kept them in darkness.

The Bible might have been preserved, but it didn't do anyone any good with all the errors in it!

 

[Kuzcotopia]

“HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO

MEANS PASS AWAY.” Matthew 24:35 NKJV ​

Independently of people’s individual beliefs, it is undeniable that the Bible has an incredible story.

It was written over a period of at least 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

But the most amazing fact about the bible is the way it survived. Most of our ancient literature has been lost due to the corrosion or destruction of the materials on which they were preserved. The Bible however, exists not only in its entirety, but in a well-preserved form, despite many efforts to destroy it.


- About 600 B.C. Jehoiakim, attempted to destroy the Word of God, but miserably failed. (Jeremiah. 36:21-32).

- In 175 BC the king of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes, ordered the Jews, on pain of death, to destroy their Scriptures and worship the Greek gods. But Judas Maccabaeus saved the books and led a revolt that won independence for the Jewish nation. (Today, Jews celebrate this event at Hanukkah.)

- In 64 A.D. Emperor Nero not only tried to wipe out the Bible, but anyone who professed Christ. He blamed them for the burning of Rome (which, he did himself) and ordered their mass execution.

- In 303 A.D. the Roman Emperor, Diocletian waged a horrible onslaught against the Bible. Every manuscript that could be found was destroyed. Thousands, including entire families who owned any of these were martyred.

- Jerome, in 405 A.D. completed a Latin translation of the Bible. In spite of being persecuted, Jerome’s translation lived through the Dark Ages. Anglo-Saxon translations of parts of Scripture, particularly the Gospel accounts appeared in England in the 7th & 8th centuries. In 1379 John Wycliffe along with chosen scholars translated the Latin Bible into English. By 1383, thousands of copies of the Wycliffe Bible were in the hands of the English. People who owned these Bibles were hunted down and killed.

- In 1524 William Tyndale resolved to put the Bible into the English of his time and distribute it throughout the nation. But, this being contrary to English law, Tyndale had to leave England for Europe. Printing began in Cologne. Tyndale was apprehended and imprisoned. In 1536 he was strangled and burned at the stake.

- In 1546 the Roman Catholic Council of Trent placed any printing of religious literature, including translations of the Bible, under the control of the church. Any who wanted to read the Bible were told to obtain written permission from bishops or inquisitors—not an appealing prospect for those who wanted to remain above suspicion of heresy. People who dared to possess or distribute Bibles in the common languages of their region had to contend with the ire of the Catholic Church. Many were arrested, burned at the stake, roasted on spits, sentenced to life in prison, or sent to the galleys. Confiscated Bibles were burned

- French humanist, Voltaire, (1700) boastfully proclaimed, "one hundred years from now the world will hear no more of the Bible." Yet, in the year of his boast, the British museum purchased a manuscript of the Greek New Testament for $500,000 while the first edition of Voltaire's new book sold for eight cents a copy! Furthermore, fifty years after the death of Voltaire, Bibles were being printed by the Geneva Bible Society in the very house where Voltaire lived and on his own printing press!

- Even after the Reformation commenced and Bible societies were formed the Catholic Church classified them with Socialism and Communism. On December 8, 1866, Pope Pius IX made this amazing statement: "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies....pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means."

Despite so much opposition, the Bible not only survived, it thrived.

The Bible has been translated into over 2000 languages. No other book even comes close.

With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time. It sells approximately 100 million copies annually, and has been a major influence on literature and history.


Some references:
25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls @ Century One Bookstore
The Write Journey: How Has the Bible Survived?
The Evidence Bible
The Preservation of the Bible
Miracle Of Survival Of The Bible
Manuscripts of the Bible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Bible - Wikipedia

It is impossible to have a discussion without considering Survivorship Bias. Attributing special qualities because a set of texts survived always makes me ask the question: what about all the other religious texts that did not survive? What texts in the general support of Christianity also didn't survive? Which were altered? Which were excluded?

In any case, attributing special meaning to "what's still around" is a cognitive bias:

Survivorship bias - Wikipedia

 

[columbus]

It is impossible to have a discussion without considering Survivorship Bias. Attributing special qualities because a set of texts survived always makes me ask the question: what about all the other religious texts that did not survive?

Especially when you ask the question, "What gives survivability to a religious text?"
In the case of Abrahamic religious texts the answer is nearly always "Meets the needs of the warrior king of a warlike culture ". From Moses to Constantine to Muhammad, the survivability of the texts is always about supporting a violent aristocracy.
Tom

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time. It sells approximately 100 million copies annually,

Such sweet irony.

You could add some text about how the Biblical Canon was formed (there really was no "Christian Bible" to suppress on some dates on your list) and how other texts not accepted by authority were suppressed to establish the dominance of the accepted texts. For a fact, most Christians during 1500+ years hadn't read the Bible, it was only small groups that often were suppressed and killed that did read it including the Cathar.

An of course how most couldn't read it because it used to be written only in Latin, a language read and spoken by few.
And also there is the influence that Pagan religions and cultures had on Christianity.

 

[sun rise]

As far as having incredible stories, I personally prefer the stories of the Mahabharata and Ramayana as well as the life of Buddha.

 

[sun rise]

Such sweet irony.

An of course how most couldn't read it because it used to be written only in Latin, a language read and spoken by few.
And also there is the influence that Pagan religions and cultures had on Christianity.

Popularity does not prove anything but popularity.

 

[columbus]

They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

No they didn't.
Anybody who reads the Bible looking for truth about God can see it. The God of Genesis is very different from the God of Exodus, Who is very different from the God of yet later OT books, Who is very different from the New Testament God of Christianity.

There is no Trinity in Exodus. None. Nothing like it. Anybody who reads it can see that. I don't see how anyone can fail to see that.
So when people assert the "Harmony" in Scripture I assume that their reading comprehension is impeded by theology and the Faith in human authority. Nothing to do with God.
Tom

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

The survival of the Bible against all odds. Isn't it incredible that it still exists despite so much opposition?

You’re absolutely right.
And I thank you for a very interesting and informative op.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Popularity does not prove anything but popularity.

It's not just the popularity and number of sales, but those number of sales that translates into big business and vast wealth for a religion that allegedly revolves around a guy who was very strongly against such things. The Jesus I've read about, he probably wouldn't take it too well that his message is being sold for profit.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

No they didn't.
Anybody who reads the Bible looking for truth about God can see it. The God of Genesis is very different from the God of Exodus, Who is very different from the God of yet later OT books, Who is very different from the New Testament God of Christianity.

There is no Trinity in Exodus. None. Nothing like it. Anybody who reads it can see that. I don't see how anyone can fail to see that.
So when people assert the "Harmony" in Scripture I assume that their reading comprehension is impeded by theology and the Faith in human authority. Nothing to do with God.
Tom

I don’t find a trinity in the NT either.
And I haven’t noticed a different God when reading the various books.

 

[columbus]

And I haven’t noticed a different God when reading the various books.

Christian God wouldn't need the Israelites to put blood on their doorframes to identify which homes to kill somebody in and which to avoid.
It's right there in the Bible if you look.
Tom

 

[Repox]

In my "opinion," the Bible is not really the word of God. It is human words about what God communicated to them influenced by ethnicity, culture, values, prejudices and biases, which is why there are contradictions and inconsistencies. God, a perfect being, communicated with humans, an imperfect species. The problem for Bible experts is to unravel the twisted threads to reveal the truth.

To better understand the truth bending process, read the debates between the prophets and God. God makes a commandment, or tells them to do this or that. Then, the prophet or others argue with God or dispute His commandment, it often results in a compromise.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Christian God wouldn't need the Israelites to put blood on their doorframes to identify which homes to kill somebody in and which to avoid.
It's right there in the Bible if you look.
Tom

I have no idea what you’re saying, but thanks.
Your mention of blood on the doorframe only verifies to me that God is the same throughout. Of course God needs them to perform that act. People are responsible for their destiny. It’s not Gods fault if they do not do what he asks.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

No they didn't.
Anybody who reads the Bible looking for truth about God can see it. The God of Genesis is very different from the God of Exodus, Who is very different from the God of yet later OT books, Who is very different from the New Testament God of Christianity.

There is no Trinity in Exodus. None. Nothing like it. Anybody who reads it can see that. I don't see how anyone can fail to see that.
So when people assert the "Harmony" in Scripture I assume that their reading comprehension is impeded by theology and the Faith in human authority. Nothing to do with God.
Tom

The longer I live and read the Bible, the more harmonious it becomes. New insight is found on a continual basis.
I can only conclude that with enough time and study, the perfect harmoniousness of the entire Bible would be self evident.

 

[columbus]

I have no idea what you’re saying, but thanks.

Read the Bible.
It's right there.
Tom

 

[columbus]

The longer I live and read the Bible, the more harmonious it becomes.

I don't doubt that this is true.

The ability of Christians to say such illogical things, and mean them, is why I don't take them seriously.
Tom

 

[Vee]

It seems that in the process of writing the OP that you didn't mention the battles between Protestants that led to some nasty wars and persecutions, plus the fact that Luther wanted to drop some books from the Bible and that he was also highly anti-Semitic and wanted a forced conversion of Jews or their removal one way or another. Calvin, much the same. Etc.

IOW, the OP piles hot coals on the CC, which are deserved imo, but seems to whitewash what happened within Protestant circles that also has to include the use of genocide against Amerindians, forced conversions, etc. Here in Michigan, Protestants tried to stop Catholic priests from even teaching Amerindians a written language based on their own language.

I would have loved to go into more detail and everything you mentioned deserves to be talked about and never forgotten but that would make the OP very long. I will keep it in mind for future, separate posts.

 

[Vee]

There is no Trinity in Exodus. None. Nothing like it.
Tom

True. There is no Trinity in the Bible and I never said there was. I don't believe in it myself.
Unfortunately the Church mixed a number of pagan ideas and traditions into their doctrines and labeled them as christian. The concept of Trinity is one of them.