Let’s talk about the Bible

[djhwoodwerks]

@djhwoodwerks That God made the writing of the Bible possible does not mean that God wrote it.

It is written that ALL good things are from God.

The Bible isn't a good thing from God then? Because God made the writing of the Bible possible, but didn't hang around to make sure it was written correctly?

 

[kjw47]

It is proof that the word "own" was added. It wasn't what God said.
Can you guess why the governing body would want to leave the word own there?
They want you to lean on THEIR understanding. OK?

The JW teachers have uncovered many truths through the years. I will listen to them.

 

[savagewind]

The Bible isn't a good thing from God then? Because God made the writing of the Bible possible, but didn't hang around to make sure it was written correctly?

I hope it is true that something need not be perfect to be good.

 

[savagewind]

The JW teachers have uncovered many truths through the years. I will listen to them.

I wonder if I should write them a letter? I did once saying that the rider at Revelation 6:2 is not Jesus, but they have ignored me. I think it is a waste of time, more so than here, to tell them anything. Some of their people, or all of them, say that nothing true can be known except if it comes from their governing body.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

nothing true can be known except if it comes from their governing body.

And that from men that keep getting it wrong and have to make "corrections"!

 

[savagewind]

And that from men that keep getting it wrong and have to make "corrections"!

God knows how Moses knew anything!

 

[Milton Platt]

“HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO

MEANS PASS AWAY.” Matthew 24:35 NKJV ​

Independently of people’s individual beliefs, it is undeniable that the Bible has an incredible story.

It was written over a period of at least 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

But the most amazing fact about the bible is the way it survived. Most of our ancient literature has been lost due to the corrosion or destruction of the materials on which they were preserved. The Bible however, exists not only in its entirety, but in a well-preserved form, despite many efforts to destroy it.

There are absolutely no original manuscripts of any part of the Bible. Many manuscripts were excluded from the Bible as we know it. There are different versions of the Bible even today.
So to say that the Bible exists in it's entirety is meaningless. It is just a collection of manuscripts written by unknown authors selected by the "James gang" to suit their own beliefs.


- About 600 B.C. Jehoiakim, attempted to destroy the Word of God, but miserably failed. (Jeremiah. 36:21-32).

- In 175 BC the king of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes, ordered the Jews, on pain of death, to destroy their Scriptures and worship the Greek gods. But Judas Maccabaeus saved the books and led a revolt that won independence for the Jewish nation. (Today, Jews celebrate this event at Hanukkah.)

- In 64 A.D. Emperor Nero not only tried to wipe out the Bible, but anyone who professed Christ. He blamed them for the burning of Rome (which, he did himself) and ordered their mass execution.

- In 303 A.D. the Roman Emperor, Diocletian waged a horrible onslaught against the Bible. Every manuscript that could be found was destroyed. Thousands, including entire families who owned any of these were martyred.

- Jerome, in 405 A.D. completed a Latin translation of the Bible. In spite of being persecuted, Jerome’s translation lived through the Dark Ages. Anglo-Saxon translations of parts of Scripture, particularly the Gospel accounts appeared in England in the 7th & 8th centuries. In 1379 John Wycliffe along with chosen scholars translated the Latin Bible into English. By 1383, thousands of copies of the Wycliffe Bible were in the hands of the English. People who owned these Bibles were hunted down and killed.

- In 1524 William Tyndale resolved to put the Bible into the English of his time and distribute it throughout the nation. But, this being contrary to English law, Tyndale had to leave England for Europe. Printing began in Cologne. Tyndale was apprehended and imprisoned. In 1536 he was strangled and burned at the stake.

- In 1546 the Roman Catholic Council of Trent placed any printing of religious literature, including translations of the Bible, under the control of the church. Any who wanted to read the Bible were told to obtain written permission from bishops or inquisitors—not an appealing prospect for those who wanted to remain above suspicion of heresy. People who dared to possess or distribute Bibles in the common languages of their region had to contend with the ire of the Catholic Church. Many were arrested, burned at the stake, roasted on spits, sentenced to life in prison, or sent to the galleys. Confiscated Bibles were burned

- French humanist, Voltaire, (1700) boastfully proclaimed, "one hundred years from now the world will hear no more of the Bible." Yet, in the year of his boast, the British museum purchased a manuscript of the Greek New Testament for $500,000 while the first edition of Voltaire's new book sold for eight cents a copy! Furthermore, fifty years after the death of Voltaire, Bibles were being printed by the Geneva Bible Society in the very house where Voltaire lived and on his own printing press!

- Even after the Reformation commenced and Bible societies were formed the Catholic Church classified them with Socialism and Communism. On December 8, 1866, Pope Pius IX made this amazing statement: "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies....pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means."

Despite so much opposition, the Bible not only survived, it thrived.

The Bible has been translated into over 2000 languages. No other book even comes close.

With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time. It sells approximately 100 million copies annually, and has been a major influence on literature and history.


Some references:
25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls @ Century One Bookstore
The Write Journey: How Has the Bible Survived?
The Evidence Bible
The Preservation of the Bible
Miracle Of Survival Of The Bible
Manuscripts of the Bible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Bible - Wikipedia

 

[Oeste]

I'd rather not derail thread theme by responding to skepticism and questions about the Trinity. If you do have questions I suggest reading the thread "The Bible Declare Jesus is God" which was authored by @Rick B.

If you have questions about the Trinity I'd be happy to take them there. Be forewarned though...I lean heavily on scripture to which I believe the New Testament is part. I see little point discussing Trinitarianism without an embrace of scriptural veracity.

 

[Oeste]

Every trinity translation was done from Catholicism translating--

Everyone is entitle to their opinion KJW, just not their own facts. I'd be extremely interested in where you got this "fact" from and so wouldn't millions of other Protestants the world over.

that means all who live by the errors in their teachings place their eternal lives on those teachings, because God requires one to know truth( John 4:22-24) he will accept no less.

Would that include the "truth" about who translates our bibles?

And what do you mean “He will accept no less”?? Doesn’t your Organization teach that God accepted your Organization in 1919 "errors" and all? Were His standards a little lower then?

And there will be no excuse because God promised that only here in these last days that truth would become abundant.( Dan 12:4) It has by certain teachers that have Jesus, and by making corrections.

Let me see if I have this right:


God requires one to know truth from erroneous teachers who make corrections. They make corrections because they consistently make errors (for which there is no excuse), so they make more corrections because God requires us to know the truth.


If that is not an exercise in circular logic, I don’t know what is.


Lastly Dan 12:4 says knowledge, not truth, will increase in the last days:


"But you, Daniel, close up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will dash about, and knowledge will increase.


Daniel was told to seal the scroll but apparently your Governing Board found it, read the contents, corrected any errors, translated it and have now divulged the scrolls contents within the Watchtower magazine.

Do you know where they found the scroll, where they keep the scroll, how long they’ve had the scroll and why they haven’t published a copy? Or do the folks in your Organization consider it impolite to ask?

 

[Oeste]

If the Catholics inserted “errors” then it wasn’t well preserved. If it was well preserved then the Catholics didn’t insert errors. Perhaps @Vee and @KJW can get together and let us know which version is correct, and when their Organization found the scroll sealed by Daniel.

 

[Oeste]

Kjw47, a noted, well known poster, Witness and apologist for the Watchtower has been teaching that the bible was full of errors until your Governing Board came along to correct it. He is male, which, according to your Organization's teachings means his opinion takes lead position on any discussion. Am I correct on this?

This is precious! I believe you are correct, but she won't be able to admit it in public, imo.

She didn't answer allowing KJW to respond instead.

This leads me to believe I hit the nail on the head.

In any event, KJW claims their Governing Board is distributing abundant or increased "knowledge" in accordance with Daniel 12:4 so I'd like to know when and where they found the scroll, who in the Organization found it, if the scroll was found well preserved, where are they keeping it, how it was unsealed, who is doing the translating, and how the Watchtower has managed to keep the scroll's discovery a secret for so long.

 

[Vee]

If the Catholics inserted “errors” then it wasn’t well preserved. If it was well preserved then the Catholics didn’t insert errors. Perhaps @Vee and @KJW can get together and let us know which version is correct, and when their Organization found the scroll sealed by Daniel.

Given what I've read in different translations, even if some Bible copyists weren't as meticulous as they should have been, the fundamental basis of the bible have remained the same. And since today there are so many ancients text available, anything that wasn't translated with the highest quality can be fixed. I don't believe the Bible has been corrupted.

 

[savagewind]

. I don't believe the Bible has been corrupted.

Then, I think I can say of you that you do not have the faith that this is the truth.
9 A little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough.+
Galatians 5:9

 

[savagewind]

It is what I call math.

All scripture is holy.
Some of it contains scribal error.
A little leaven ferments the whole

IF indeed there are in it manmade errors that need fixing it can't possibly be holy and also
Galatians 5:9 be true.

The Bible can't truly be considered holy WITH any errors and also Galatians 5:9 be true.

Can the Bible be considered holy even though some of it was changed? Maybe, I do not know!

Can the Bible be considered holy with its mistakes and also* Galatians 5:9 be true?

*that's the math

The right and true answer is NO!

They can't both be true.

 

[savagewind]

@Vee Do you want to know which one that I think is true.
I believe Galatians 5:9.
That means I can't believe that the Bible is God's Word.
The reason is I have seen the errors. Jehovah's Witnesses have too.
They haven't seen the same ones which I have seen, but they say they discovered and corrected
a very serious mistake. John 1:1.

Right?

While John 1:1 was wrong it had to have caused the whole lump to be with fermentation which means it couldn't have been holy.

 

[Oeste]

Given what I've read in different translations, even if some Bible copyists weren't as meticulous as they should have been, the fundamental basis of the bible have remained the same. And since today there are so many ancients text available, anything that wasn't translated with the highest quality can be fixed. I don't believe the Bible has been corrupted.

If it were simply an issue of best translation, that would be fine. But your Organization goes beyond translation and attacks the integrity of the bible itself when they claim the Divine Name was removed from thousands of NT manuscripts.

If the Divine Name were successfully removed it would be an egregious corruption of the text. Not only would we not know what was removed, we would have no idea what else was removed, omitted or added. It would also be a great mystery, since it would have required all NT manuscripts to be rounded up, each and every Tetragrammaton replaced with Kurios, and then redistributed back without any record or trace the manuscript had been altered.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

(These threads are always so predictable. )

 

[savagewind]

Groan.

Truly the title of the thread by someone "in the truth" should be, "let me tell you about the Bible".

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The right and true answer is NO!

They can't both be true.

With your reasoning, the Bible, that God allowed error in, is not Holy and therefore worthless.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

While John 1:1 was wrong it had to have caused the whole lump to be with fermentation which means it couldn't have been holy.

Then why do you bother reading and quoting it? It's worthless if it's not the Holy word of God. We should just throw it in the trash.