Let’s talk about the Bible

[savagewind]

It doesn't say-it started right then now does it--Rev 6--he receives his crown=1914

Cute! If God didn't mean he received it then, it would have been written that he would receive it. It is written that he DID receive. it.

 

[kjw47]

Excuse me? It is I who believe in a personal relationship with God and with Jesus Christ. I am a believer. You believe in the men who claim that they are believers. You are not a believer.
Psalms 146:3
2 Corinthians 4 Therefore, since we have this ministry through the mercy that was shown us, we do not give up. 2 But we have renounced the shameful, underhanded things, not walking with cunning or adulterating the word of God;+ but by making the truth manifest, we recommend ourselves to every human conscience in the sight of God.+ 3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things*+ has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,+ so that the illumination* of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God,+might not shine through.+ 5 For we are preaching, not about ourselves, but about Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God is the one who said: “Let the light shine out of darkness,”+ and he has shone on our hearts to illuminate them+ with the glorious knowledge of God by the face of Christ.

YOU are preaching yourselves. I am not!

I shared the 6 teachings of Jesus with all--those teachings back the JW teachers and expose the rest.

 

[savagewind]

Has been given me is present perfect. But, I might be wrong about what it is called.

 

[savagewind]

I shared the 6 teachings of Jesus with all--those teachings back the JW teachers and expose the rest.

I think nobody has ever said or even implied that your teachers are all wrong.
I don't even think it is possible (to be all wrong). Do you?

 

[kjw47]

@kjw47 these three things.
1. having been given all authority
2. having been given a crown
3. sitting upon a throne

There is so much wrong with the Jehovah's Witness view.

If two thousand years ago Jesus was given all authority who gave him the crown
at this time of the end?

If the crown means he sits upon the throne now, how is he also riding?

Also, if the crown being given to him as pictured in Revelation 6:2 means he has finally sat
down on his throne in Heaven how is it different than him being given all authority
in Heaven and on the Earth and how can he come again to accomplish the will of God for
the Earth while he is sitting?

So, according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus seems to be doing three things at the same time. He is a lamb opening scrolls. He is a rider on a horse. And, he is sitting down on
a throne.

Three? Hum. Interesting! Is the governing body underhandedly making you poor guys trust in the Trinity?

You are very good at twisting--just like the 32,999 false religions claiming to be Christian.
Revelation is far above mortal thinking. The truths are only revealed through Jesus real teachers on earth---never through a domestic.

 

[kjw47]

Has been given me is present perfect. But, I might be wrong about what it is called.

Jesus has been given all authority--It did not say it started then. You are just assuming. Where as bible fact clearly shows it begins here at Rev 6

 

[kjw47]

I think nobody has ever said or even implied that your teachers are all wrong.
I don't even think it is possible (to be all wrong). Do you?

32,999 religions claiming to be Christian, yet teach a non existent trinity god.

 

[savagewind]

I am going to think up six teachings of Jesus because thinking is better than working imo.

Change can be good. Prayer will help.
People are essentially good.
People need training.
Always stick with the truth. (it is easier).
Hope for good.
Time can be your friend.

 

[savagewind]

Jesus has been given all authority--It did not say it started then. You are just assuming. Where as bible fact clearly shows it begins here at Rev 6

Learn your verb forms, then argue it. OK?

 

[savagewind]

You are very good at twisting--just like the 32,999 false religions claiming to be Christian.
Revelation is far above mortal thinking. The truths are only revealed through Jesus real teachers on earth---never through a domestic.

Who told you that?

 

[Nakosis]

“HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY, BUT MY WORDS WILL BY NO

MEANS PASS AWAY.” Matthew 24:35 NKJV ​

Independently of people’s individual beliefs, it is undeniable that the Bible has an incredible story.

It was written over a period of at least 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony.

But the most amazing fact about the bible is the way it survived. Most of our ancient literature has been lost due to the corrosion or destruction of the materials on which they were preserved. The Bible however, exists not only in its entirety, but in a well-preserved form, despite many efforts to destroy it.


- About 600 B.C. Jehoiakim, attempted to destroy the Word of God, but miserably failed. (Jeremiah. 36:21-32).

- In 175 BC the king of Syria, Antiochus Epiphanes, ordered the Jews, on pain of death, to destroy their Scriptures and worship the Greek gods. But Judas Maccabaeus saved the books and led a revolt that won independence for the Jewish nation. (Today, Jews celebrate this event at Hanukkah.)

- In 64 A.D. Emperor Nero not only tried to wipe out the Bible, but anyone who professed Christ. He blamed them for the burning of Rome (which, he did himself) and ordered their mass execution.

- In 303 A.D. the Roman Emperor, Diocletian waged a horrible onslaught against the Bible. Every manuscript that could be found was destroyed. Thousands, including entire families who owned any of these were martyred.

- Jerome, in 405 A.D. completed a Latin translation of the Bible. In spite of being persecuted, Jerome’s translation lived through the Dark Ages. Anglo-Saxon translations of parts of Scripture, particularly the Gospel accounts appeared in England in the 7th & 8th centuries. In 1379 John Wycliffe along with chosen scholars translated the Latin Bible into English. By 1383, thousands of copies of the Wycliffe Bible were in the hands of the English. People who owned these Bibles were hunted down and killed.

- In 1524 William Tyndale resolved to put the Bible into the English of his time and distribute it throughout the nation. But, this being contrary to English law, Tyndale had to leave England for Europe. Printing began in Cologne. Tyndale was apprehended and imprisoned. In 1536 he was strangled and burned at the stake.

- In 1546 the Roman Catholic Council of Trent placed any printing of religious literature, including translations of the Bible, under the control of the church. Any who wanted to read the Bible were told to obtain written permission from bishops or inquisitors—not an appealing prospect for those who wanted to remain above suspicion of heresy. People who dared to possess or distribute Bibles in the common languages of their region had to contend with the ire of the Catholic Church. Many were arrested, burned at the stake, roasted on spits, sentenced to life in prison, or sent to the galleys. Confiscated Bibles were burned

- French humanist, Voltaire, (1700) boastfully proclaimed, "one hundred years from now the world will hear no more of the Bible." Yet, in the year of his boast, the British museum purchased a manuscript of the Greek New Testament for $500,000 while the first edition of Voltaire's new book sold for eight cents a copy! Furthermore, fifty years after the death of Voltaire, Bibles were being printed by the Geneva Bible Society in the very house where Voltaire lived and on his own printing press!

- Even after the Reformation commenced and Bible societies were formed the Catholic Church classified them with Socialism and Communism. On December 8, 1866, Pope Pius IX made this amazing statement: "Socialism, Communism, clandestine societies, Bible societies....pests of this sort must be destroyed by all means."

Despite so much opposition, the Bible not only survived, it thrived.

The Bible has been translated into over 2000 languages. No other book even comes close.

With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time. It sells approximately 100 million copies annually, and has been a major influence on literature and history.


Some references:
25 Fascinating Facts About the Dead Sea Scrolls @ Century One Bookstore
The Write Journey: How Has the Bible Survived?
The Evidence Bible
The Preservation of the Bible
Miracle Of Survival Of The Bible
Manuscripts of the Bible — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Bible - Wikipedia

Survival of belief is an inherent fault of the human species. We want to know how things work. The Bible provided the best explanation in it's time for everything we didn't know. Doesn't mean it was true or accurate but until science came along there was little else. Based on what was known and what wasn't known was explained by the creation of a supernatural entity.

More and more we are finding a supernatural entity is an unnecessary addition to our knowledge of how the universe work.

Voltaire assumed science would be able to come up with with answers for everything much quicker than it did. It's a big universe, likely much larger, more technical details than he was able to imagine based on the science of his time.

Science is not easy. It takes dedication, a willingness to not accept easy answers. Religion is easy. You just accept the explanation given and go on about your life. It relieves you of the need to question the existence of the universe.

 

[savagewind]

I think God's truth is only revealed through Jesus*. What is wrong with thinking that? You are calling such thinking satanic. Are you not?

*John 14:6

 

[savagewind]

@kjw47 I know one thing for sure. It is that Jesus doesn't lie.
If he really said "all authority has been given me" it means that and doesn't mean that all authority will be given him (when the governing body says so)..

Has been given is a verb form that means IS. It does not mean will be.

Is it another Bible change that needs doing?

 

[savagewind]

The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses needs to change Matthew 28:18 to what it really means and do it tout de suite.

OK? If they believe it means that he will be receiving his authority in 1914 it has to say will be given and not has been given. Maybe they should just get rid of all the paper copies and go digital. That way it won't cost them a billion dollars to fix it.

 

[savagewind]

OMG! What if they did decide it is time to change it, they do change it and then they are given another scripture to change. LOL








There's not enough money in the world to get it right we fear.

 

[Blastcat]

Independently of people’s individual beliefs, it is undeniable that the Bible has an incredible story.

I think it's boring and yes, not credible at all.

 

[Blastcat]

"But the most amazing fact about the bible is the way it survived.

so do big holes

 

[Oeste]

God knew revelation would come. It was men who didn't know that. It was already in Daniel--
Like this--Dan 12:1--It is Michael who is standing up--you know him as Jesus.

Nah.

This sounds like stuff you made up by the seats of your pants in order to justify the incongruity of your earlier responses.

I don't recall reading about any sealed "correlation" book between the books of Daniel and Revelation much less that the Governing Board had found it and was now revealing the scroll's contents through the pages of the Watchtower.

Can you source us to the Watchtower article please?

And when you get a chance, can you finally tell us when and where they found the scroll, who did the translation, and where the scroll is now? Or do your eyes glaze over my question because your mind finds a truthful answer difficult?

This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've asked. If you don't know, just say so. There's no need to make up doctrines that the Watchtower doesn't actually teach.

 

[Daniel108]

Hi! Welcome back. I agree with you.

Attempting to prove God's existence using Bibles as extraordinary evidence? This is not OK to me, although I used to try to do that. It is building a foundation upon sand, and many passages in the Bibles say to build our foundation in a very different manner. For example many places in the Psalms talk about studying Torah and being transformed thereby. This is very different from using the Bible as a predictamancer or God-detector, the way people do when attempting to trace predictions in Bible passages. People in ancient times do not spend time wowing over how sturdy their Bibles are, and neither should people in modern times. Since we are not supposed to base our lives upon signs and wonders, lets leave this dead subject in the dust.

Shalom aleichem, May peace be with you.

We are all predisposed by the experiences in our lives to be biased in how we view religion. If our minds were completely free we would naturally stay open minded, without prejudice (pre-judgement).

If we can accept that we have free will to choose, then it becomes understandable that there is never any absolute proof of God-- we must find the truth of God, or not, for ourselves. Thus, ultimately, believing in God is a matter of faith, not absolute proof, and that choice is the same within all religions. Is it not best to search the commonalities within religions to find the fullest answers? Could there be One God throughout creation, thus over all the Earth, and, as expressed in most indigenous religions, within the Earth herself?

In the effort to find truth, let us join hands across our common world, uniting in peace to make the Earth a better place to live, which includes exposing evil wherever it is hiding.

 

[savagewind]

@kjw47 Can you or any Jehovah's Witness see that the rider of Revelation 6:2 having been given a crown can't picture Jesus because of being given a crown because the Watchtower gives a crown to all the kings?

The next time you have to persuade someone to believe it is Jesus, you need another reason.
The white horse won't work either. The reason for that is because the whole army of Heaven each rides one. Perhaps it pictures one of them. Perhaps a Judas-like person?