Let's not talk about the Big Bang

[Subduction Zone]

Now SZ, this is not the "last one to post is the winner" thread, you don't have to always have the last word. Your beliefs are pretty narrow, even you would admit to that, so a lot of what other people say goes either over your head or goes outside your belief, and you are triggered to respond. Let it rest, there you may find peace that passes understanding, God bless you SZ.
(PS. I bet he posts again )

Please, how are my beliefs narrow? I merely get a bit irritated by people making claims as if they are factual and then running away from properly supporting those claims. I do not doubt that you believe what you say that you believe but to go beyond that when you cannot support your claims with evidence or logic turns them into fallacies.

And please, nothing you have said went over my head. You are giving yourself too much credit. I need to remind you that you claim to have knowledge, but your own posts refute that claim. Knowledge is demonstrable. Do you have anything besides empty claims and poor reasoning to back up your claims?

 

[Valjean]

How are SZ's beliefs narrow? Perhaps you haven't given him a chance to respond on other topics.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Please, how are my beliefs narrow? I merely get a bit irritated by people making claims as if they are factual and then running away from properly supporting those claims. I do not doubt that you believe what you say that you believe but to go beyond that when you cannot support your claims with evidence or logic turns them into fallacies.

And please, nothing you have said went over my head. You are giving yourself too much credit. I need to remind you that you claim to have knowledge, but your own posts refute that claim. Knowledge is demonstrable. Do you have anything besides empty claims and poor reasoning to back up your claims?

You are an atheist, that puts the whole forest outside your belief for starters, how narrow is that, a belief in one tree, and no knowledge of the forest in which it exists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are an atheist, that puts the whole forest outside your belief for starters, how narrow is that, a belief in one tree, and no knowledge of the forest in which it exists.

Why would it do that? Are you claiming that your beliefs are irrational? I might agree with you on that.

Do you realize that atheism is not a belief for most? It is a lack of belief. You seem to have a false concept of what atheism is.

 

[exchemist]

Oh? Back up your sentences with quotes also about "Quantum Physics is based on objective verifiable evidence by many years of research in this and the past century."

Just look up the history of quantum theory. Try googling “ultraviolet catastrophe”, “photoelectric effect” and “Rutherford-Bohr model”. Nobody can be expected to give you a tutorial on all the evidence by means of posts on a discussion forum. You need to do some reading for yourself. If you want to do that and revert with questions, I would be delighted to help out.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are an atheist, that puts the whole forest outside your belief for starters, how narrow is that, a belief in one tree, and no knowledge of the forest in which it exists.

The thing is that this "forest" you claim exists, is indistinguishable from fantasy.

The "bible god forest" is absent from @Subduction Zone 's beliefs in the exact same way as Thor, Odin and leprechauns are absent from your beliefs.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I agree, a tree grows in the forest.

A tree grows in my garden also, which is not a forest.

This "forest" you keep referring to, is indistinguishable from sheer fantasy and imagination

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When SZ doesn't understand, it's always a 'word salad' and 'denier' that is to blame. So given the regularity of your use the term 'word salad', it shows how often you can't understand what is being said to you. Perhaps the "last one to post is the winner' thread is a more appropriate place for you to make comments, I bet you hang out there.

No. It's word salad because you use words to say absolutely nothing.
They are tossed together in a bowl "like a salad".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Being aware of different 'tree' models is not model hopping, all models have some truth in them, some more than others, but no single model has all the truth.

How do you distinguish "truth" from fiction, if not through independently verifiable evidence?

How do I independently verify the existence of this metaphorical "forest" you keep babbling about?

 

[joelr]

Let's be honest. There have been reports by some that spaceships landed on the earth, and "aliens" visited the Pentagon. Some people probably really believe that. Then again, I have seen some here claim dead people can visit humans in their dreams and that they're REAL. So if someone wants to reason that maybe life evolved somewhere else in the universe despite lack of evidence, might as well say that for other things, too.

There are 100 billion stars in our galaxy and billions of galaxies. All stars have planets around them. The possibility of life being in some stage of evolution somewhere is very high.

I don't know what exactly your issue with any of this is? You buy into an ancient story of a typical Near Eastern deity with borrowed mythology which has literally zero evidence and endless evidence it's all just like Islam or Hinduism, made up by people.
You believe a dead Jesus visited Paul in visions? And the evidence is, he said so. Then tell others it's silly to believe in life because of lack of evidence?

There is evidence. Evolution happened on Earth. Self replicating compounds began replicating, the process isn't fully understood yet but the science grows every year. We have evidence of amino acids and other chemicals creating nucleobase structures and so on. Why this universe is suited for atoms to form and more complex structures and all that is unknown. There could be endless universes with all different manifestations of laws. We don't know. The history of science is us finding out nature is larger, more powerful, more amazing and contains endless possibilities and we have barely begun to understand the full extent of nature. So why the skepticism for science and not for legends and myths?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The thing is that this "forest" you claim exists, is indistinguishable from fantasy.

The "bible god forest" is absent from @Subduction Zone 's beliefs in the exact same way as Thor, Odin and leprechauns are absent from your beliefs.

On noes, not another atheist, may God guide you to understand what you really are in the context of the 'forest'.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

A tree grows in my garden also, which is not a forest.

This "forest" you keep referring to, is indistinguishable from sheer fantasy and imagination

Oh, and triggered by the concept of 'forest' apparently, may you find peace in the 'forest' my son.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No. It's word salad because you use words to say absolutely nothing.
They are tossed together in a bowl "like a salad".

My goodness, he's really triggered, try some yoga, or still mind mediation is even better, it will put you in touch with the forest.

 

[ratiocinator]

On noes, not another atheist, may God guide you to understand what you really are in the context of the 'forest'.

The only things that will guide rational people to a conclusion is evidence and/or sound reasoning. I know the world is full of a 'forest' of baseless beliefs; superstitions, myths, conspiracy theories and so on, but unless I'm given some rational reason to take some idea seriously, I'm never going to do so.

My goodness, he's really triggered, try some yoga, or still mind mediation is even better, it will put you in touch with the forest.

Many people who practice mindfulness and yoga are also atheists....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

How do you distinguish "truth" from fiction, if not through independently verifiable evidence?

How do I independently verify the existence of this metaphorical "forest" you keep babbling about?

By realization, which is a subjective process so there is no 'verifiable evidence'. But no one is asking you to change your ways, so long as you feel that you know what and who you are in the context of universal existence, then so be it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The only things that will guide rational people to a conclusion is evidence and/or sound reasoning. I know the world is full of a 'forest' of baseless beliefs; superstitions, myths, conspiracy theories and so on, but unless I'm given some rational reason to take some idea seriously, I'm never going to do so.



Many people who practice mindfulness and yoga are also atheists....

Yoga and mindfulness can lead to an experience of expanded consciousness, but most never realize that state, it requires almost a calling to have the commitment to go all out that is necessary for the realization of the said experience. No atheist practitioner of yoga or mindfulness has experienced true expanded consciousness, if they had, they would no longer identify as atheist.

 

[ratiocinator]

Yoga and mindfulness can lead to an experience of expanded consciousness, but most never realize that state, it requires almost a calling to have the commitment to go all out that is necessary for the realization of the said experience. No atheist practitioner of yoga or mindfulness has experienced true expanded consciousness, if they had, they would no longer identify as atheist.

You might want to have a look at Sam Harris's book Waking Up. He's probably taken it further than most religious people.

I do find it rather funny though, when people suggest something will lead you to a belief, you point out that it often doesn't work, and the come-back is that you're not really doing it right/well enough. It seems just as likely (more so, given the total lack of objective verification) that those who end up with the belief are engaged in wishful thinking and reading things into subjective experiences.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Why would it do that? Are you claiming that your beliefs are irrational? I might agree with you on that.

Do you realize that atheism is not a belief for most? It is a lack of belief. You seem to have a false concept of what atheism is.

I understand what the concept of atheism represents, and tbh. I have a lack of belief in it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

You might want to have a look at Sam Harris's book Waking Up. He's probably taken it further than most religious people.

I do find it rather funny though, when people suggest something will lead you to a belief, you point out that it often doesn't work, and the come-back is that you're not really doing it right/well enough. It seems just as likely (more so, given the total lack of objective verification) that those who end up with the belief are engaged in wishful thinking and reading things into subjective experiences.

Beliefs in themselves mean little, it is realization that is the all.

If you do not want to do some efficacious religious practice, who cares, it is your life. But realization of truth is not just a subjective experience, it is a selfless experience, ie. no ego-self is present. Definitely can never be objectively observed or subjectively experienced by a personal self.

 

[ratiocinator]

Beliefs in themselves mean little, it is realization that is the all.

A 'realisation' without objective evidence is nothing but a belief.