Let's re-think South Carolina ban on gender-affirming care

[icehorse]

Hippocratic Oath, which includes respecting the scientific gains of prior physicians, not doing harm, and providing all medical treatment required by circumstance.

Sorry, let me rephrase my question: When dealing with a GD kid, what should the provider's only goal be?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Breaking:

Children self report being very satisfied with groundbreaking candy diet.

 

[libre]

When dealing with a GD kid, what should the provider's only goal be?

I don't think there's an 'only goal'.
I think WPATH standards of care have been an improvement that has been adopted in Canadian psychological and pediatric care, and it should be followed providing that the proper diagnosis process has been done. Denying all trans children treatment is unconscionable and agenda-driven.

If the Canadian Psychological Association and Pediatric Society find that improvements can be made, they should create or endorse new standards of care. However to go against our scientific experts and to instead make care a matter of legislation like abortion would be to lapse into dogma over science.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The National Center for Transgender Equality has just released "Early Insights" from its 2022 survey -- the largest ever done -- of transgener people in the United States. And boy, does it ever seem to contradict a lot of what the nay-sayers in the previous thread on this topic continue to claim!

The survey covered 92,329, including 84,170 adults (18 and older), from all fifty states, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and U.S. military bases overseas. So this is a very non-trivial survey, as these things go.

So check out these survey results -- and then can we hear from the nay-sayers again, please?

Life Satisfaction after Transitioning Gender

A lot more satisfied ----------- 79%
A little more satisfied --------- 15% (Total more satisfied = 94%)
Neither more nor less --------- 3%
A little less satisfied ------------1%
A lot less satisfied ------------- 2%

Life Satisfaction after Receiving Hormone Treatment

A lot more satisfied ----------- 84%
A little more satisfied --------- 14% (Total more satisfied = 98%)
Neither more nor less --------- 0%
A little less satisfied ------------ 1%
A lot less satisfied -------------<1%

Life Satisfaction after Gender-Affirming Surgery

A lot more satisfied ------------ 88%
A little more satisfied ----------- 9% (Total more satisfied = 97%)
Neither more nor less ----------- 1%
A little less satisfied ------------ <1%
A lot less satisfied --------------- 1%

I think just about all of here who actually know and care were already aware of the numbers.
It's just as surprising as the "concerned" bigot who dismisses this and nitpicks to find fault and wave away the feelings of those who went through it because he's "out to protect women and children."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Breaking:

Children self report being very satisfied with groundbreaking candy diet.

Except we can, obviously to anyone who knows a damn thing about health, expect to see the child's health go down thw toilets with diet rich in candy.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Except we can, obviously as anyone who knows a damn about health, expect to see the child's health go down thw toilets with diet rich in candy.

Quality of life steadily diminishes over time due to insufficient meaning. Gender identity is the current sugar rush in the realm of meaning, and that sugar rush comes at the expense of what is supposed to be the foundation of lasting meaning.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's why the legislation is there to prevent those disasters from happening.

So suddenly the nany state is ok?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Quality of life steadily diminishes over time due to insufficient meaning. Gender identity is the current sugar rush in the realm of meaning, and that sugar rush comes at the expense of what is supposed to be the foundation of lasting meaning.

Current? The first medical transition happened over 100 years ago. Just because it's new to you doesn't mean it's actually new or a fad.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So my logic is if you want to destroy your life go ahead , because you will have nobody to blame but yourself.

Way to ignore the evidence provided.

 

[Colt]

The National Center for Transgender Equality has just released "Early Insights" from its 2022 survey -- the largest ever done -- of transgener people in the United States. And boy, does it ever seem to contradict a lot of what the nay-sayers in the previous thread on this topic continue to claim!

The survey covered 92,329, including 84,170 adults (18 and older), from all fifty states, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and U.S. military bases overseas. So this is a very non-trivial survey, as these things go.

So check out these survey results -- and then can we hear from the nay-sayers again, please?

Life Satisfaction after Transitioning Gender

A lot more satisfied ----------- 79%
A little more satisfied --------- 15% (Total more satisfied = 94%)
Neither more nor less --------- 3%
A little less satisfied ------------1%
A lot less satisfied ------------- 2%

Life Satisfaction after Receiving Hormone Treatment

A lot more satisfied ----------- 84%
A little more satisfied --------- 14% (Total more satisfied = 98%)
Neither more nor less --------- 0%
A little less satisfied ------------ 1%
A lot less satisfied -------------<1%

Life Satisfaction after Gender-Affirming Surgery

A lot more satisfied ------------ 88%
A little more satisfied ----------- 9% (Total more satisfied = 97%)
Neither more nor less ----------- 1%
A little less satisfied ------------ <1%
A lot less satisfied --------------- 1%

If Transgenderism is based on dishonesty, actors and actresses living in character 24/7, demanding that society accept the roles they play, then the pole results are what should be expected when surveying the pro-trans community.

 

[Viker]

If Transgenderism is based on dishonesty, actors and actresses living in character 24/7, demanding that society accept the roles they play, then the pole results are what should be expected when surveying the pro-trans community.

It's a good thing that it's not "based on dishonesty, actors and actresses living in character 24/7, demanding that society accept the roles they play". And it's a good thing the evidence, that's been repeatedly provided to support it's not, points to that.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Quality of life steadily diminishes over time due to insufficient meaning. Gender identity is the current sugar rush in the realm of meaning, and that sugar rush comes at the expense of what is supposed to be the foundation of lasting meaning.

Meaningless drivel in the context of the present topic. Little "meaning" comes from being forced to be what you feel you are not.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So suddenly the nany state is ok?

The nanny state is never okay, unless it's nannying somebody else to suit your own personal whims. I thought we all knew that?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

If Transgenderism is based on dishonesty, actors and actresses living in character 24/7, demanding that society accept the roles they play, then the pole results are what should be expected when surveying the pro-trans community.

And if the Giant Spaghetti Monster were real, he'd hit you with a giant meatball.

Such statements, always beginning with "if," are not really very useful, are they?

 

[icehorse]

I don't think there's an 'only goal'.
I think WPATH standards of care have been an improvement that has been adopted in Canadian psychological and pediatric care, and it should be followed providing that the proper diagnosis process has been done. Denying all trans children treatment is unconscionable and agenda-driven.

If the Canadian Psychological Association and Pediatric Society find that improvements can be made, they should create or endorse new standards of care. However to go against our scientific experts and to instead make care a matter of legislation like abortion would be to lapse into dogma over science.

You're overthinking it.

THE ONE GOAL in treating this mental condition is to make kids with GD feel better mentally.

So MAYBE - and it's a big maybe - a particular kid does not grow past GD and as a young adult decides to transition.

But MAYBE - a different kid just needs some talk therapy, and grows out of GD naturally.

So the advocacy group known as WPATH appears to put the cart before the horse, and is ALL ABOUT trans people. But a lot of GD KIDS ARE NOT TRANS.

 

[libre]

But a lot of GD KIDS ARE NOT TRANS.

You are not the arbiter of who is transgender. That's for the individual to identify.
Taking the stance that there is no such thing as a 'transgender child' or 'transgender teen' as you did in your most recent thread, is a cruel way of gatekeeping identity until one has had to suffer irreversible changes that they do not want.

As for your assertions about WPATH, I trust the standards endorsed by the Pediatric association of my country more than I trust your analysis, but I'd be happy to change my mind if you were able to convince them to change their standards. Until then, I'm content to brush off these bans as being anti-science.

 

[icehorse]

Taking the stance that there is no such thing as a 'transgender child' or 'transgender teen' as you did in your most recent thread, is a cruel way of gatekeeping identity until one has had to suffer irreversible changes that they do not want.

Let me try to rephrase this:

A kid with GD is an unknown quantity. They MIGHT emerge from adolescence and know they are trans. But they MIGHT emerge from adolescence and know they are not trans.

Will you address the issue of the many GD kids who are not trans?

As for your assertions about WPATH, I trust the standards endorsed by the Pediatric association of my country more than I trust your analysis, but I'd be happy to change my mind if you were able to convince them to change their standards. Until then, I'm content to brush off these bans as being anti-science.

Every year thousands of kids are going thru GAC. Many of them are having their lives destroyed needlessly.

We need better protocols for kids with GD, and the longer we wait, the more lives will be destroyed.

So good for, wait and watch this scandal unfold, I prefer to try to promote change as quickly as possible.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

aking the stance that there is no such thing as a 'transgender child' or 'transgender teen' as you did in your most recent thread, is a cruel way of gatekeeping identity until one has had to suffer irreversible changes that they do not want.

This is an interesting point! If there is no such thing as a "transgender child or teen," then how can there be any such thing as a cisgender child or teen? Should they not be brought up, not as boys nor girls, but as ungendered beings and "we'll see what they turn into" critters? But no, that's not how we do it, is it -- they are brought up to be "proper boys" and "proper girls."

Germans, after all, label girls not as feminine nouns but neuter: das Mädchen. And looking at paintings and photos from the Victorian era, it can be hard to tell the boys from the girls, since parents would put little boys in dresses just as often as they did for little girls. Go ahead, see if you can tell which of these children of Victoria's and Albert's are boys.

 

[Valjean]

Sorry, let me rephrase my question: When dealing with a GD kid, what should the provider's only goal be?

Maximize well-being, minimize harm.
Sometimes non-intervention can be the most harmful course of action.

 

[icehorse]

Maximize well-being, minimize harm.
Sometimes non-intervention can be the most harmful course of action.

Indeed. And sometimes interventions like GAC can cause unnecessary harm, for example when it's done on kids who wouldn't have ended up trans. So we've got an actual dilemma here.