LGBTQ

[Eliana]

Sorry to butt in here but...

You seem to be criticizing law in general here. Most people aren't murderers or thieves or whatever, we have laws to stop the bad guys. You've already admitted that there ARE some trans women who are bad, why shouldn't we have laws to protect women against them as well. It's called safe guarding and we do it all the time.

I said gay, straight and trans. People are people and some are bad, regardless of their sexuality or genital configuration. Laws against rape, murder and thievery aren't going to also affect non-rapists, murderers and thieves. What a ridiculous comparison.

 

[Eliana]

I do, do you disagree? And if you disagree, why?


How so? How can you accuse someone of "misgendering" if you can't define "gender", "gender identity" and "gender fluidity" ?

Misgendering is when someone tells you how to address them and you purposely don't. Not rocket science.

 

[icehorse]

I said gay, straight and trans. People are people and some are bad, regardless of their sexuality or genital configuration. Laws against rape, murder and thievery aren't going to also affect non-rapists, murderers and thieves. What a ridiculous comparison.

The law often imposes universal safeguards, such as providing safe spaces for women. Why should this be any different?

 

[Argentbear]

I'm aware that people pretend to know what gender and gender identity and gender fluidity are. But what we've seen many times on this forum is that when pressed, good definitions are not forthcoming.

What we have seen is that you reject any definition that doesn't fit with your agenda

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If they could, there wouldn't be such things as facial feminization surgery.

One sort of belief, perhaps prejudice, I've noticed in society and change my hair color, men aren't supposed to have awesome, beautiful hair. My natural strawberry blonde, evem before I accepted myself having it long os what first got me referred to with female pronouns on a regular basis. With green hair it's much harder to pass and takes way more effort because it shifted from pretty and lovely to bold and courageous (what others tell me).

 

[icehorse]

Misgendering is when someone tells you how to address them and you purposely don't. Not rocket science.

Since when did individuals start owning a common language? Since when did people get to arbitrarily change the meanings of basic words to suit their personal agendas? And again, these terms are - in my experience - not well defined. So it's more than fair for me to ask you for definitions of these terms. And I'm not messing with you. I cannot define these terms in a way that holds up to scrutiny. Can you?

 

[icehorse]

What we have seen is that you reject any definition that doesn't fit with your agenda

Not at all. I just haven't seen any definitions that hold up to logical scrutiny. And given how important these terms seem to be to some people, I think it's more than fair to ask for logically consistent definitions.

 

[Argentbear]

I do, do you disagree? And if you disagree, why?

I guess I'm just looking hard for reasons to be offended

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think your claims are incorrect here. Of course SOME forms of trans care continue in Europe, as they should. But WPATH's SOC has been sharply curtailed.

Let me make this simple for you. In Europe the conclusion is:

- talk therapy is good
- the dangerous, ineffective, irreversible medicalization of kids with gender dysphoria is bad.

And once again, I'm simply forwarding the conclusions drawn by top medical authorities in Europe, so your fight is with them, not me

No, you aren't. You are presenting what you have been told from biased sources. You have even beem shown links in the past showing you that you are wrong but still you repeat things that aren't true. Like how they never said bad, they said it needs more research.

 

[Argentbear]

Since when did individuals start owning a common language?

Expressing how one woudl like to be addressed is owning a common language? Or does this apply only to trans individuals?

 

[icehorse]

No, you aren't. You are presenting what you have been told from biased sources. You have even beem shown links in the past showing you that you are wrong but still you repeat things that aren't true. Like how they never said bad, they said it needs more research.

Wrong. Throughout Europe top organizations have concluded that WPATH's SOC is ineffective, dangerous, and irreversible, and so they have adjusted their treatments for GD accordingly.

Of course we should do more research, doh! I never said we shouldn't. But in the meantime we should do what good doctors pledge to do and that is "first, do no harm". As a general practice, good doctors don't inflict dangerous protocols on patients unless they're convinced the rewards outweigh the risks. What Cass determined is that the rewards have not yet been proven and that the risks are high.

Now I understand that if GAC is suspended, as many top doctors think it should be, it will be hard for those individuals who have personally or professionally invested themselves in GAC. And I feel for those people. Sunk costs - while fallacies - can still be emotionally hard to take. I get it.

But I think GAC is a massive medical scandal - it could well be that profiteering is involved - so for the sake of vulnerable kids everywhere, experiencing GD, the sooner we stop inflicting GAC on them, the fewer kids will be harmed for life.

 

[icehorse]

Expressing how one woudl like to be addressed is owning a common language? Or does this apply only to trans individuals?

Names are individual, pronouns are not. If activists want to come up with one set of pronouns to be used when she/her, he him don't feel right, I'd be okay with that. But that's not what's happening. What's happening is that individuals make up their own pronouns, often change them on a whim, and demand that society keep up with their folly. That's compelled speech, and it's super dangerous.

 

[libre]

JAQing

Never heard of this term before, thanks!

 

[libre]

These long circular threads basically amount to a game of 'stop hitting yourself'.

If you don't believe the other poster is engaging in good faith, why are you breathing more and more oxygen into the thread? Say your piece and unwatch.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Never heard of this term before, thanks!

I hadn't either until @Eliana mentioned it and put a name on something I knew goes on (Just Asking Questions in a way that is bigoted).

 

[Argentbear]

Wrong. Throughout Europe top organizations have concluded that WPATH's SOC is ineffective, dangerous, and irreversible, and so they have adjusted their treatments for GD accordingly.

What organizations?

Of course we should do more research, doh! I never said we shouldn't. But in the meantime we should do what good doctors pledge to do and that is "first, do no harm". As a general practice, good doctors don't inflict dangerous protocols on patients unless they're convinced the rewards outweigh the risks. What Cass determined is that the rewards have not yet been proven and that the risks are high.

and many question just how reliable her findings are
Concerns over Cass Review raised by more than 200 educational psychologists
The American Medical Association
to start with

Now I understand that if GAC is suspended, as many top doctors think it should be,

Like who?

But I think GAC is a massive medical scandal - it could well be that profiteering is involved - so for the sake of vulnerable kids everywhere, experiencing GD, the sooner we stop inflicting GAC on them, the fewer kids will be harmed for life.

I linked the whole UCSD gender affirming care guidelines and asked you to identify just what policies are dangerous or harmful. You refused to even look at it.

 

[Argentbear]

Names are individual, pronouns are not.

when they are used in reference to an individual they become individual.

 

[Revoltingest]

I observed some common behaviors on RF. These behaviors amount to debating in bad faith.

So if an individual poster does not debate in bad faith, there is nothing to be offended by, correct?

And if you feel that you debate in good faith but you're somehow offended on behalf of bad faith posters, well you're just looking super hard for a reason to be offended, correct?

Those things aside, you do
so much more than claimed.

 

[Kfox]

The business didn't post anything and the fact that they had gender neutral facilities right there ready for the attention seeking man to use says it has been a policy of that business for a long long time

That was the case for this particular place, but that is not the case for all the other business in the State.

it is a social construct because what is considered attractive varies significantly across cultures, time periods, and social groups, and is shaped by societal norms and expectations rather than any objective quality.

Okay to answer your question; beautiful (like gender) is not a good way to describe someone; unless you are just offering your opinion of the person

a week after Rebecca Phillips told the story of her "traumatization" Christine Woods appeared at the Santee city council meeting identifying she was many years post OP. Others also present at the day of the "traumatization" spoke saying there was "nothing to see" pun intended.
Ref and Ref
Rebecca changed her story to cover this revelation

So Rebecca Phillips was a liar, because the person she claimed traumatized her DID pass the glance test; agree?

Lesbian, gay bisexuality is about who you are

There is a lot more to people than who they are sexually attracted to.

Citation?

No citations, just some views I’ve picked up by talking to gay people.

 

[Revoltingest]

As a whole when we look at stats mem are more likely to be against trans while women are more.like to be ok with them.

This shouldn't result in blaming only men.
We are all individuals.

Yes, TERFs exist, but it doesn't change overall trends.

Don't let a trend be writ large.
Bigotry is ugly.

And when speaking of here, it's overwhelmingly a handful of men who have and are insisting women need protection while ciswomen are saying no.

See above.