[LHP only] What is left hand path?

[Adramelek]

immortality?

Immortality of the psyche/self/soul, energized by the essence of being that is the Black Flame through perpetual Re-manifestation.

 

[Adramelek]

LHP is about becoming an individual instead of merging with "the one."

Becoming an individual takes a lot of soul-searching--you have to face your own personal fears instead of repressing them, as well as identifying the cultural/collective fears, know them for what they are, and bring all of the unconscious processes into consciousness so you can resolve them intelligently.

This, wonderfully stated by Crossfire. Though I refer to what she calls the "One" as the "All". Yes the LHP is about Becoming the Truth of your individual Being. It is not about conforming to the masses, or RHP attempts to return to a state of oneness with the natural order or "God". You cannot return to a former state of existence anymore than you can fold a mighty oak back into an acorn. The LHP presents limitless potential of Being. The RHP is the subjugation of the individual self to some higher power.

 

[EtuMalku]

So how you tell the difference between higher Self and mundane self, practically speaking?

Ah! That's the trick and the secret . . . my suggestion is you join the Herald of the Dawn and begin the Work

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Ah! That's the trick and the secret . . . my suggestion is you join the Herald of the Dawn and begin the Work

Is there an application form then?

 

[Mindmaster]

I've really dodged these posts mostly because as you can see the "Left-Hand Path" is a nearly meaningless term. Whatever someone says about it they're just going to answer within the concepts that appeal to their self-view.

What the Left Hand Path can't be... is probably a better statement... So here goes:

1) Speculation and assumption is not LHP. This goes for immortality, higher selves, presuming godhood, etc... This is transcendental talk. This makes you RHP no matter what you call yourself.

2) Buddhist concepts such as Karma, derivations from Crowley and co (masonic, transcendental beliefs, etc) are not LHP. At best they are RHP-friendly magical beliefs at worse they are just what they appear to be. See #1. If you can't imagine that Crowley was a complete worthless loser and everything he did was useless again, you are probably RHP. (He was a junkie, a sexual deviant, never completed "The Great Work" which he talks about all day, and died nearly penniless in a crap shack in Italy.) Many other religions and groups borrow all of Crowley's jive -- from prophecies, to enochian keys, to aeons, and whatever. They are derivative work, probably only wishing they were LHP.

3) Enlightenment focus, or progress focus. Who determines if you progress? Arbitrary criteria is the bane of the LHP. If it is you who are the judge it's just wishful thinking or arrogance at best. If someone else is the judge you've just joined the RHP. A balanced LHPer can only admit to doing the best they can...

4) If you're married to one system of beliefs rather than a meta-paradigm you are highly likely non-LHP even though you think you are. There are plenty of good ideas outside of familiar lines of thought that could bring you closer to your goals and there are even systems that oppose your own that have valuable information. Do you look at these too or you about towing a line? If that's the case... You are not LHP. Someone who is really LHP is not bound to anything -- they go where they have to.

5) Froofy titles like -- High Priest, Magus, etc.. Any of these... Non-LHP. I give exception to Priest as many truly egalitarian LHP groups use this just to denote people whom can marry and bury. No grand poobahs with mystic murmurings can be recognized in the LHP.

Does that negate nearly all of the crap of the previous posts? Yes, it does... And, that's why I posted it. Maybe some people need to reconsider their affiliations.

 

[Adramelek]

You know sometimes I get tired of the terms "Left-Hand Path" and "Right-Hand Path" myself. I am just venturing and exploring my own Path of Life. I work and I play, I love, I study and practice certain forms of philosophy and Magick, but my greatest passion is for my music, composing and learning new techniques on the guitar and piano keyboard. And yes, I always strive to do the best I can in life. I Am Adra Melek!

 

[EtuMalku]

I've really dodged these posts mostly because as you can see the "Left-Hand Path" is a nearly meaningless term. Whatever someone says about it they're just going to answer within the concepts that appeal to their self-view.

What the Left Hand Path can't be... is probably a better statement... So here goes:

1) Speculation and assumption is not LHP. This goes for immortality, higher selves, presuming godhood, etc... This is transcendental talk. This makes you RHP no matter what you call yourself.

2) Buddhist concepts such as Karma, derivations from Crowley and co (masonic, transcendental beliefs, etc) are not LHP. At best they are RHP-friendly magical beliefs at worse they are just what they appear to be. See #1. If you can't imagine that Crowley was a complete worthless loser and everything he did was useless again, you are probably RHP. (He was a junkie, a sexual deviant, never completed "The Great Work" which he talks about all day, and died nearly penniless in a crap shack in Italy.) Many other religions and groups borrow all of Crowley's jive -- from prophecies, to enochian keys, to aeons, and whatever. They are derivative work, probably only wishing they were LHP.

3) Enlightenment focus, or progress focus. Who determines if you progress? Arbitrary criteria is the bane of the LHP. If it is you who are the judge it's just wishful thinking or arrogance at best. If someone else is the judge you've just joined the RHP. A balanced LHPer can only admit to doing the best they can...

4) If you're married to one system of beliefs rather than a meta-paradigm you are highly likely non-LHP even though you think you are. There are plenty of good ideas outside of familiar lines of thought that could bring you closer to your goals and there are even systems that oppose your own that have valuable information. Do you look at these too or you about towing a line? If that's the case... You are not LHP. Someone who is really LHP is not bound to anything -- they go where they have to.

5) Froofy titles like -- High Priest, Magus, etc.. Any of these... Non-LHP. I give exception to Priest as many truly egalitarian LHP groups use this just to denote people whom can marry and bury. No grand poobahs with mystic murmurings can be recognized in the LHP.

Does that negate nearly all of the crap of the previous posts? Yes, it does... And, that's why I posted it. Maybe some people need to reconsider their affiliations.

It's common to misunderstand these two paths, as you have demonstrated.
The Western Left Hand Path is simply a path towards apotheosis / autotheism however you would like to define it

The Right Hand Path is a Perennial Philosophy and shares a single, universal doctrine which posits that the highest good that human life can achieve is through the union with a Supreme Being / Energy of the Universe.

You are either furthering one Path or the other, you cannot satisfy both Paths.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We live in dangerous times folks,

You're an American, yes? That means you are privileged with being able to live in some of the safest times, and even with our mass shootings of late you are still not as likely to die from a violent death (such as murder) as people of times past were. The same can't be said in many places, such as Syria or Iran, but many people throughout the East and West, despite the violence we are seeing, are living in a time of safety and security that really hasn't been seen since our species began to transition from hunter-gatherer to agricultural. These "dangerous times" people go on about just do not match reality for massive areas and populations of people.

 

[Adramelek]

You're an American, yes? That means you are privileged with being able to live in some of the safest times, and even with our mass shootings of late you are still not as likely to die from a violent death (such as murder) as people of times past were. The same can't be said in many places, such as Syria or Iran, but many people throughout the East and West, despite the violence we are seeing, are living in a time of safety and security that really hasn't been seen since our species began to transition from hunter-gatherer to agricultural. These "dangerous times" people go on about just do not match reality for massive areas and populations of people.

Excuse my rant, I deleted that post it had nothing to do with the subject of this thread. I had a weird day yesterday.

 

[crossfire]

I've really dodged these posts mostly because as you can see the "Left-Hand Path" is a nearly meaningless term. Whatever someone says about it they're just going to answer within the concepts that appeal to their self-view.

What the Left Hand Path can't be... is probably a better statement... So here goes:

1) Speculation and assumption is not LHP. This goes for immortality, higher selves, presuming godhood, etc... This is transcendental talk. This makes you RHP no matter what you call yourself.

2) Buddhist concepts such as Karma, derivations from Crowley and co (masonic, transcendental beliefs, etc) are not LHP. At best they are RHP-friendly magical beliefs at worse they are just what they appear to be. See #1. If you can't imagine that Crowley was a complete worthless loser and everything he did was useless again, you are probably RHP. (He was a junkie, a sexual deviant, never completed "The Great Work" which he talks about all day, and died nearly penniless in a crap shack in Italy.) Many other religions and groups borrow all of Crowley's jive -- from prophecies, to enochian keys, to aeons, and whatever. They are derivative work, probably only wishing they were LHP.

3) Enlightenment focus, or progress focus. Who determines if you progress? Arbitrary criteria is the bane of the LHP. If it is you who are the judge it's just wishful thinking or arrogance at best. If someone else is the judge you've just joined the RHP. A balanced LHPer can only admit to doing the best they can...

4) If you're married to one system of beliefs rather than a meta-paradigm you are highly likely non-LHP even though you think you are. There are plenty of good ideas outside of familiar lines of thought that could bring you closer to your goals and there are even systems that oppose your own that have valuable information. Do you look at these too or you about towing a line? If that's the case... You are not LHP. Someone who is really LHP is not bound to anything -- they go where they have to.

5) Froofy titles like -- High Priest, Magus, etc.. Any of these... Non-LHP. I give exception to Priest as many truly egalitarian LHP groups use this just to denote people whom can marry and bury. No grand poobahs with mystic murmurings can be recognized in the LHP.

Does that negate nearly all of the crap of the previous posts? Yes, it does... And, that's why I posted it. Maybe some people need to reconsider their affiliations.

I agree with you on all of these points except #2. To clarify Karma in a LHP respect: you set your unconscious habitual patterns of thought and action by means of your volitional actions and thoughts. This is how you program your "autopilot." If you program skillful habits, then you will reap skillful results in the future when you are working on autopilot. If you program unskillful habits, you will reap unskillful results when you work on autopilot. If you make a habit of attacking without thinking, you are making a habit of disabling your frontal lobes in favor of more animal-type behaviour. If you make a habit of investingating everything, you are creating habits of intelligent investigation that will serve you well in the future. (Simple as that)

 

[crossfire]

One aspect of my own personal view of LHP comes from Taoism and Buddhism, where the left is the passive aspect and the right is the active aspect. The passive aspect is the unconscious mind--the autopilot you program, as well as memories, repressed information, and other aspects of your mind. My primary focus is to bring the unconscious processes into conscious awareness, so I can have my own, intelligently designed and integrated unconscious mind, which will free me from the herd-mentality in my times of auto-pilot behavior. Exploring psychology of the unconscious is consequentially a very large part of my LHP practice.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

@Mindmaster

Nice angle, I think you nailed it.

There is more, of course, but you have certainly highlighted some salient points.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Exploring psychology of the unconscious is consequentially a very large part of my LHP practice.

So how do you do that, practically speaking?

 

[1137]

I've really dodged these posts mostly because as you can see the "Left-Hand Path" is a nearly meaningless term. Whatever someone says about it they're just going to answer within the concepts that appeal to their self-view.

What the Left Hand Path can't be... is probably a better statement... So here goes:

1) Speculation and assumption is not LHP. This goes for immortality, higher selves, presuming godhood, etc... This is transcendental talk. This makes you RHP no matter what you call yourself.

2) Buddhist concepts such as Karma, derivations from Crowley and co (masonic, transcendental beliefs, etc) are not LHP. At best they are RHP-friendly magical beliefs at worse they are just what they appear to be. See #1. If you can't imagine that Crowley was a complete worthless loser and everything he did was useless again, you are probably RHP. (He was a junkie, a sexual deviant, never completed "The Great Work" which he talks about all day, and died nearly penniless in a crap shack in Italy.) Many other religions and groups borrow all of Crowley's jive -- from prophecies, to enochian keys, to aeons, and whatever. They are derivative work, probably only wishing they were LHP.

3) Enlightenment focus, or progress focus. Who determines if you progress? Arbitrary criteria is the bane of the LHP. If it is you who are the judge it's just wishful thinking or arrogance at best. If someone else is the judge you've just joined the RHP. A balanced LHPer can only admit to doing the best they can...

4) If you're married to one system of beliefs rather than a meta-paradigm you are highly likely non-LHP even though you think you are. There are plenty of good ideas outside of familiar lines of thought that could bring you closer to your goals and there are even systems that oppose your own that have valuable information. Do you look at these too or you about towing a line? If that's the case... You are not LHP. Someone who is really LHP is not bound to anything -- they go where they have to.

5) Froofy titles like -- High Priest, Magus, etc.. Any of these... Non-LHP. I give exception to Priest as many truly egalitarian LHP groups use this just to denote people whom can marry and bury. No grand poobahs with mystic murmurings can be recognized in the LHP.

Does that negate nearly all of the crap of the previous posts? Yes, it does... And, that's why I posted it. Maybe some people need to reconsider their affiliations.

So you're only interested in the most simple and mundane of magic, huh?

 

[Mindmaster]

I agree with you on all of these points except #2. To clarify Karma in a LHP respect: you set your unconscious habitual patterns of thought and action by means of your volitional actions and thoughts. This is how you program your "autopilot." If you program skillful habits, then you will reap skillful results in the future when you are working on autopilot. If you program unskillful habits, you will reap unskillful results when you work on autopilot. If you make a habit of attacking without thinking, you are making a habit of disabling your frontal lobes in favor of more animal-type behaviour. If you make a habit of investingating everything, you are creating habits of intelligent investigation that will serve you well in the future. (Simple as that)

For me, Karma isn't subject to reinterpretation since we didn't invent the term or derive from it and express a new idea. Karma requires previous lives, predestination, and largely absolves an individual from any responsibility for their actions in most cases. This life you may be an ax murderer and the next a forest dwelling cat lady -- but, you have very little choice. It's RHP as it can be, but you may like it. If we were being purists it's a no-go however... Fate/predestination/previous/future lives all are problematic concepts for people whom seek apotheosis and believe in free will.

Personally, I think the most destructive thing in the universe is assumption -- and people assume you can research thing and truly understand them. Nothing could be further from the truth! To know is to be, to read and think is to not-be. Gnosis is required to get past the very topical attributions of any matter in question, and there is so little of that going around. We can dress like a priest or a policeman, but that doesn't make us one. In each case, there are psychological transformations that shift ones identity both internally and externally. Many of these experiences are just simply not reachable by those whom have biased minds.... Disbelieve in magic, gods, and spirits or whatever... You won't see them, but it doesn't mean they aren't actually there in some way. Placebo effect at it's finest -- your unconscious mind will give you _EXACTLY_ what you ask for... But, there are some advantages to accessing ones resources in such ways...

There are also two types of rationality -- open-minded and closed. Close-minded rationality is completely destructive to ones own life -- basically, you pick an idea and stick with it and it's done... Mind is all made up.. Of course, what you know has just stopped evolving at this point. Most of the LHP suffers from this delusion that they know everything about everything and nothing exists outside their model. For me, the model is just a hat... I put it on to think from a certain perspective, but it is garbage if it cannot answer the question at hand.

 

[1137]

So how you tell the difference between higher Self and mundane self, practically speaking?

You learn through experience, as is magic. It's something you KNOW, like a sperm donor seeing his biological child on the street.

 

[crossfire]

So how do you do that, practically speaking?

The contemplation: this is dukkha; this is the origin of dukkha, this is the cessation of dukkha, this is the path of practice lading to the cessation of dukkha.

Identify problematic psychological hang ups, observe them, understand them, resolve them.

 

[crossfire]

For me, Karma isn't subject to reinterpretation since we didn't invent the term or derive from it and express a new idea. Karma requires previous lives, predestination, and largely absolves an individual from any responsibility for their actions in most cases. This life you may be an ax murderer and the next a forest dwelling cat lady -- but, you have very little choice. It's RHP as it can be, but you may like it. If we were being purists it's a no-go however... Fate/predestination/previous/future lives all are problematic concepts for people whom seek apotheosis and believe in free will.

The problem is that this definition IS the result of 2500+ years of reinterpretation. 2500+ years ago, Buddha defined Karma as intention.

Personally, I think the most destructive thing in the universe is assumption

Totally agree.

-- and people assume you can research thing and truly understand them. Nothing could be further from the truth!

You can research and seek to understand concepts others have communicated.

To know is to be, to read and think is to not-be. Gnosis is required to get past the very topical attributions of any matter in question, and there is so little of that going around.

Indeed, knowledge and understanding are two different things.

We can dress like a priest or a policeman, but that doesn't make us one.

Agreed.

In each case, there are psychological transformations that shift ones identity both internally and externally. Many of these experiences are just simply not reachable by those whom have biased minds.... Disbelieve in magic, gods, and spirits or whatever... You won't see them, but it doesn't mean they aren't actually there in some way. Placebo effect at it's finest -- your unconscious mind will give you _EXACTLY_ what you ask for... But, there are some advantages to accessing ones resources in such ways...

Are you sure you don't have a bias regarding desire, intention, and action?

There are also two types of rationality -- open-minded and closed. Close-minded rationality is completely destructive to ones own life -- basically, you pick an idea and stick with it and it's done... Mind is all made up.. Of course, what you know has just stopped evolving at this point.

Clinging to a concept is most definitely an obscuring bias.

Most of the LHP suffers from this delusion that they know everything about everything and nothing exists outside their model. For me, the model is just a hat... I put it on to think from a certain perspective, but it is garbage if it cannot answer the question at hand.

Building one's own prison. You will eventually have to destroy it to break free. Clinging to any model will limit your potential. Probably more productive to set your limits at what you don't desire {and then deal with those hang ups} rather than to limit your potential by creating a desired model.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Identify problematic psychological hang ups, observe them, understand them, resolve them.

So basically develop greater self-awareness?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The problem is that this definition IS the result of 2500+ years of reinterpretation.

In the Buddhist suttas the fruits of kamma can be experienced in this life as well as the next, so I think you're covered.