"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron!

[The Voice of Reason]

is the blended fabs thing in the NT?

This is in the NT:
Abusers of themselves ... 1 Cor. 6:9–10.

WOW!!

Man, I'm glad you pointed that one out, Idea. I can't speak for the female part of the population, but as for us males, I'd be willing to bet that we've all participated in "abusing ourselves".

They did a study about a decade ago, at Johns Hopkins University. They found that 97% of all males masturbate on a recurring basis.

The other 3% - no arms.

 

[Father Heathen]

No one has to adhere to anything. We all have free agency, we choose what we do/do not do. We cannot however choose the consequences for our actions.

By "consequences" you're referring to postmortem cookies and spankings, right?

 

[ChristineES]

We have to ask ourselves a big question: How would God feel? That is hard, because God is greater than we are.
Let's use homosexuality. I am not going to say it is a sin or not a sin because I am and always will be undecided on the issue. Think about it- if a gay person was born that way (which evidences have proven)and people by nature want and even need a life partner- would God hold that against the person, even if it is a sin? If I can have compassion, then why wouldn't God, who made me, have compassion? Think about it.

 

[sojourner]

is the blended fabs thing in the NT?

This is in the NT:
Men burned in their lust one toward another, Rom. 1:27. Abusers of themselves with mankind will not inherit the kingdom of God, 1 Cor. 6:9–10. The law is not made for a righteous man, but for them that defile themselves with mankind, 1 Tim. 1:9–10
(Guide to the Scriptures | HHomosexuality.:Entry)

The homosexuality law isn't in the NT, either.:no:

 

[sojourner]

This is in the NT:
Men burned in their lust one toward another, Rom. 1:27. Abusers of themselves with mankind will not inherit the kingdom of God, 1 Cor. 6:9–10. The law is not made for a righteous man, but for them that defile themselves with mankind, 1 Tim. 1:9–10

None of these are laws. They're opinions.

 

[Reverend Rick]

WOW!!

Man, I'm glad you pointed that one out, Idea. I can't speak for the female part of the population, but as for us males, I'd be willing to bet that we've all participated in "abusing ourselves".

They did a study about a decade ago, at Johns Hopkins University. They found that 97% of all males masturbate on a recurring basis.

The other 3% - no arms.

So how did they collect their data? Was this verified or just stated? I was going to say the 3% where liars.

VOR, I suspect they just survey people and the fairer sex might be misleading us a bit.

I believe you, Sunstone and myself should get to the bottom of this. Talk about stimulus money.....

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I believe you, Sunstone and myself should get to the bottom of this. Talk about stimulus money.....

Never let it be said that TVOR stands against bi-partisan research. Especially when it is funded by a grant from the federal government.

To be honest, I have been doing quite a bit of individual research - but my data collection has been sorely lacking.

 

[Kathryn]

I have. An example would be Roman Catholic bishops telling politicians who are Catholic that they should not receive communion if they are pro choice on abortion. My cousin left the RC church after the priest said Catholics who vote for a "pro choice" candidate should not receive the sacraments.

Every group has parameters. At some point a person can step so far out of the parameters of an organized group, and in actuality they are no longer part of that organized group.

That doesn't make them less of a person - it just makes them no longer part of that particular group. To pretend that they are is self delusion.

But there are lots of other groups - or they can create a group of their own.

If I dyed my hair red and said I was a redhead, and then I went light auburn, and then I went strawberry blonde, and then I went ash blonde - at some point my hair ceases to be red - I am no longer a redhead. I may FEEL like one, but no one else would identify me as one. If I wanted to join a club for redheaded women, I would need to dye my hair red again.

At some point (and it's a nebulous point in some areas!) a woman can no longer join the Junior League - because she's too old. She may not like it - she may FEEL like a Junior Leaguer - but reality has caught up with her. She ain't no Junior Leaguer.

She needs to keep it real and go join the MahJong group that meets for lunch on Thursdays at the country club.

 

[Smoke]

Whoa, back up there! I'm not asking anyone to do any such thing.

Oh, I know. I didn't mean you, personally. But obviously, these churches wouldn't be offering these second-class memberships to gay people if they didn't expect anybody to accept the offer.

 

[Storm]

Oh, ok.

 

[Smoke]

Rom. 1:27. Abusers of themselves with mankind will not inherit the kingdom of God

Romans 1.28-32:

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
​

When you can honestly say that your church treats the covetous, the malicious, the envious, those who disobey their parents, the implacable and the unmerciful, exactly as it treats gay people, then you get back to me. Until then, it's just empty posturing and shameless hypocrisy.

 

[Smoke]

Every group has parameters. At some point a person can step so far out of the parameters of an organized group

I agree, and when churches are blatantly hypocritical in their treatment of gay people, that's their prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to point it out. I am not at all suggesting that gay people should attempt to insinuate themselves into churches that don't want them, or that want them only as second-class members. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[ChristineES]

Romans 1.28-32:

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
​

When you can honestly say that your church treats the covetous, the malicious, the envious, those who disobey their parents, the implacable and the unmerciful, exactly as it treats gay people, then you get back to me. Until then, it's just empty posturing and shameless hypocrisy.

As always, you make a terrific point. The Church seems to pick and choose what they are against, as I said earlier, if they have the problem then they are likely to overlook it in others as well. Maybe that is why I am having so much trouble finding a Church home. I don't want to be a hypocrite. And as you well know, Jesus told us to take the log out of our own eyes and not worry about the splinter in our brother's eye.

 

[Smoke]

At some point (and it's a nebulous point in some areas!) a woman can no longer join the Junior League - because she's too old. She may not like it - she may FEEL like a Junior Leaguer - but reality has caught up with her. She ain't no Junior Leaguer.

She needs to keep it real and go join the MahJong group that meets for lunch on Thursdays at the country club.

It depends on where you live, of course, but once you're in, most if not all chapters allow you to stay in no matter how old you are. Many have no upper age limit for new members, either.

 

[sojourner]

I agree, and when churches are blatantly hypocritical in their treatment of gay people, that's their prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to point it out. I am not at all suggesting that gay people should attempt to insinuate themselves into churches that don't want them, or that want them only as second-class members. Quite the opposite, in fact.

If the Church won't accept the disenfranchised, then what the he** are we doing here?!
If he were in the grave, Jesus would be rolling over in it.

 

[Kathryn]

It depends on where you live, of course, but once you're in, most if not all chapters allow you to stay in no matter how old you are. Many have no upper age limit for new members, either.

Yes, it depends on where you live, but surely you get my point.

 

[somebody1982]

I dont understand why this is even under debate. How could somebody call themselves a genuine christian and yet align themselves with a party that supports abortion and homosexuality? I will also state that I know that there are many corrupt things about the Republican party as well, but usually liberals will start tearing apart the hypocricy in the other party and not own up to the non-biblical stances of their own party. I am an independent because both parties do things that I know God would not be pleased with.

 

[Storm]

I dont understand why this is even under debate. How could somebody call themselves a genuine christian and yet align themselves with a party that supports abortion and homosexuality?

By focusing on Christ's message of love and tolerance rather than exploiting obscure legalism to justify their bigotry, maybe?

I will also state that I know that there are many corrupt things about the Republican party as well, but usually liberals will start tearing apart the hypocricy in the other party and not own up to the non-biblical stances of their own party.

What is there to own up to? This is a secular country, our policies aren't supposed to be based on the Bible.

 

[sojourner]

I dont understand why this is even under debate. How could somebody call themselves a genuine christian and yet align themselves with a party that supports abortion and homosexuality? I will also state that I know that there are many corrupt things about the Republican party as well, but usually liberals will start tearing apart the hypocricy in the other party and not own up to the non-biblical stances of their own party. I am an independent because both parties do things that I know God would not be pleased with.

Take a close look at your first phrase:

I dont understand

We can call ourselves "genuine Christians" because we embrace unconditional love, forbearance, mercy, compassion, and liberation -- not judgment, draconianism, condemnation, ambivalence and imprisonnment.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I dont understand ...

You don't understand because you are judging people before you listen to them. That is a fault that usually comes with immaturity - but since you were (apparently) born in 1982, you may well grow beyond that, as you get a little more life under your belt.

First, seek to understand - then to be understood. Excellent advice, in the form of a quote.