Liberals and Islam

[RedDragon94]

Why do liberals always seem to run to the aid of Muslims when there is such a difference in values?

For instance, if any of you Muslim RF members want to answer how you feel about abortion, homosexuality, and pornography and Liberal members of RF want to answer how you feel about those issues we could see what the connection is between the two. Let's compare and contrast and then try to answer why liberals seem to be all for Islam.

 

[RedDragon94]

What, am I just being a jerk?

 

[Sunstone]

I think what you're seeing is a manifestation of the liberal instinct to support people who are perceived as the underdog. Differences in values do not always stop liberals from supporting some person or group on principled grounds.


I'm not in favor of the tendency of some liberals to put Islam on a pedestal, though, and deny the differences between traditional liberal and Islamic values.

 

[RedDragon94]

I think what you're seeing is a manifestation of the liberal instinct to support people who are perceived as the underdog. Differences in values do not always stop liberals from supporting some person or group on principled grounds.


I'm not in favor of the tendency of many liberals to put Islam on a pedestal, though, and deny the differences between traditional liberal and Islamic values.

Okay, do liberals realize though that if they support people who are against their values they may in fact nurture a world where their values don't exist?

 

[Sunstone]

Okay, do liberals realize though that if they support people who are against their values they may in fact nurture a world where their values don't exist?

I don't know. You'd have to ask the ones who do that. I don't. Nor -- so far as I know -- do most liberals. Instead, my impression is that it is only a vocal minority of liberals who gloss over the differences between Islamic and liberal values.

 

[RedDragon94]

I don't know. You'd have to ask the ones who do that. I don't. Nor -- so far as I know -- do most liberals. Instead, my impression is that it is only a vocal minority of liberals who gloss over the differences between Islamic and liberal values.

Well I hope so. Thanks for keeping me straight.

 

[psychoslice]

I feel that liberals use the Muslims as a emotional weapon, just as many use children, like, "think about the children", its just a ploy and nothing more.

 

[Sunstone]

I feel that liberals use the Muslims as a emotional weapon, just as many use children, like, "think about the children", its just a ploy and nothing more.

That's a very cynical thought.

 

[jeager106]

Free democracies have little in common with Islam which is anything
but guided by democratic ideals.

"In the Arab world today, the majority of its intellectuals are clerics, imams, and thinkers emerging from the core of Islamic values. Radical Islam simply does not routinely nurture free thinkers willing to brave the fires of what might otherwise become an Islamic Inquisition."
Is Islam Compatible With Democracy? | The Huffington Post
Islamic law is absolutely incompatible with true democracy. It is a theocratic system with Allah alone at its head. Allah's law is interpreted by a ruling body of clerics. There is no room for a secular political system in which all people are treated as equals.
Islam and Liberal Democracy


More on the web if you want to Google it.

 

[Sunstone]

Well I hope so. Thanks for keeping me straight.

A related subject is the general failure of liberals to rally to the support of Muslims who are trying to change Islam from within. To me, that's foolishness. If Islam is going to change for the better, it will be through a combination of internal pressure and external support for that pressure to change.

 

[RedDragon94]

A related subject is the general failure of liberals to rally to the support of Muslims who are trying to change Islam from within. To me, that's foolishness. If Islam is going to change for the better, it will be through a combination of internal pressure and external support for that pressure to change.

That's how Christianity's changing.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why do liberals always seem to run to the aid of Muslims when there is such a difference in values?

For instance, if any of you Muslim RF members want to answer how you feel about abortion, homosexuality, and pornography and Liberal members of RF want to answer how you feel about those issues we could see what the connection is between the two. Let's compare and contrast and then try to answer why liberals seem to be all for Islam.

Yeah, it's odd to see some criticize Christianity for being homophobic and misogynistic, yet defend Islam despite being an even worse offender. What really makes me sick are those who defend the purported sexual abuse done by Muhammad to a nine years old girl, saying it gets a pass because it was "culturally acceptable", but you would never see them apply that same logic to slavery, patriarchy, etc..

 

[ADigitalArtist]

saying it gets a pass because it was "culturally acceptable", but you would never see them apply that same logic to slavery, patriarchy, etc..

Though most people in America do. With our quasi-deific view of the founding fathers and treating them as more than flawed, politically motivated and often agregiously egotistical men who committed all of those things. If our country was what most of our founding fathers wanted, women would still be unable to vote and slavery would still be in place.
Looking from a perspective of cultural hero worship, it's pretty easy to see how people overlook these qualities in their icons when it suits them, including plenty of secular people.

Though I'm neither a nationalist nor a religious person, let alone 'ancient revealed religions which unfortunately have ancient prejudices.' And it's sometimes definitely very frustrating to see, from my perspective, Abrahamics choosing to ignore the violence and injustice towards these groups within their scripture and their past.

But, from the perspective of a non-literal believer, telling them what their religion does and doesn't say to them, how they are meant to interpret the scripture and that they must absolutely be homophobic, misogynistic and violent is both effing rude and completely unwarranted putting words in their mouth. Lots of Jews, Christians and Muslims are not any of those things despite attempts to generalize and demean them as such.

And that's (just one reason) why I will always refuse to treat Christians, Muslims and Jews like a problem I should solve. I'm a liberal who refuses to equate Muslims, Jews or Christians with any of those things.

 

[Godobeyer]

Why do liberals always seem to run to the aid of Muslims when there is such a difference in values?

For instance, if any of you Muslim RF members want to answer how you feel about abortion, homosexuality, and pornography and Liberal members of RF want to answer how you feel about those issues we could see what the connection is between the two. Let's compare and contrast and then try to answer why liberals seem to be all for Islam.

Hello .

My opinion is you are free to live your life, you can't apply your values on me,nor me can't apply your values on you.

So you have your religion,and way of life,I have mine

 

[Kirran]

Hello .

My opinion is you are free to live your life, you can't apply your values on me,nor me can't apply your values on you.

So you have your religion,and way of life,I have mine

So if someone's value is that it's OK to rape children, for example, is your attitude 'You live your way of life, no problem!'?

 

[Godobeyer]

So if someone's value is that it's OK to rape children, for example, is your attitude 'You live your way of life, no problem!'?

This is extrem exemple you gave
That's community values, some tradition you accept,may others don't.

Some nations in Brazil and Africa are naked, that's their tradition living clothes.
We Muslims and maybe Jews are circumcision the boy, some other find this crazy .
We Muslims find marry 4 women is ok, others find it bad, we find striper clubs and adultery as huminlation work to women,some find it good....etc ,so go on .

 

[Kirran]

This is extrem exemple you gave
That's community values, some tradition you accept,may others don't.

Some nations in Brazil and Africa are naked, that's their tradition living clothes.
We Muslims and maybe Jews are circumcision the boy, some other find this crazy .
We Muslims find marry 4 women is ok, others find it bad, we find striper clubs and adultery as huminlation work to women,some find it good....etc ,so go on .

Yeah, it's meant to be an extreme example!

I'm not sure there's any culture which blanket-approves stripping and cheating on your partner!

My point is that if other people are actively harming people through their values, then it makes sense to take a stand against that. I would include rape of children and genital mutilation in that.

 

[Godobeyer]

Yeah, it's meant to be an extreme example!

I'm not sure there's any culture which blanket-approves stripping and cheating on your partner!

My point is that if other people are actively harming people through their values, then it makes sense to take a stand against that. I would include rape of children and genital mutilation in that.

I made a thread before about "if your partner cheating on you,would you forgive him/her?"
I was shocked that most of males vote "to agree to forgive" !

You can find disagreement on "commun" point in same community.
Here is my point you can't apply your value/traditions on all your community and others communities.

 

[Kirran]

I made a thread before about "if your partner cheating on you,would you forgive him/her?"
I was shocked that most of males vote "to agree to forgive" !

You can find disagreement on "commun" point in same community.
Here is my point you can't apply your value/traditions on all your community and others communities.

Forgiveness is not the same as approval though!

What do you mean by "commun"? This isn't a word in English that I am aware of, I think perhaps you are bringing it in from French?

Right, but say there is some culture where they think genital mutilation is OK, it's pretty understandable to take a stance that that's a problem don't you think?

 

[interminable]

Do we have such liberals?

god bless them

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