Liberals and Islam

[Godobeyer]

Forgiveness is not the same as approval though!

What do you mean by "commun"? This isn't a word in English that I am aware of, I think perhaps you are bringing it in from French?

Right, but say there is some culture where they think genital mutilation is OK, it's pretty understandable to take a
stance that that's a problem don't you think?

Forgiveness with cheating partner,that's cultural,and way of life.

I meant by commun which most of community accept (to do it). in West most of people accept stripper and adultery.

What mean mean by gentil mutilation, do you mean " circumcision the boy" ?

 

[Kirran]

Forgiveness with cheating partner,that's cultural,and way of life.

I meant by commun which most of community accept (to do it). in West most of people accept stripper and adultery.

What mean mean by gentil mutilation, do you mean " circumcision the boy" ?

How is it cultural? It's compassionate, surely.

That's incorrect that most people in the West are accepting of stripping and adultery. You really want to believe it, I know, but it still isn't true.

By genital mutilation I mean any means by which the genitals of people, especially babies (boys and girls), are damaged through cutting.

 

[LuisDantas]

It seems to me that two factors enable the situation described in the OP.

One: There is a lot of genuine ignorance and misinformation about Islam. While some of it works against its reputation, much and quite possibly most of it ends up protecting it. Lacking proper information, we tend to assume that Islaam is not all that different from conservative Christianity. It is difficult to truly accept that there are whole countries which call apostasy a capital crime and where scripture is perceived as justification for bloody conflict.

Two: On the other hand, the right wing has become surprisingly extreme in the last few decades. Dealing with it has made liberals somewhat less sharp in its perceptions and more accomodating of gross excesso out of sheer lack of choice.

 

[tytlyf]

So if someone's value is that it's OK to rape children, for example, is your attitude 'You live your way of life, no problem!'?

All religions and non-religions rape children. In America, our prisons are filled with them. I don't think they're muslims either.

 

[Iti oj]

I think what you're seeing is a manifestation of the liberal instinct to support people who are perceived as the underdog. Differences in values do not always stop liberals from supporting some person or group on principled grounds.


I'm not in favor of the tendency of some liberals to put Islam on a pedestal, though, and deny the differences between traditional liberal and Islamic values.

I would add to that , that those who are usually doing the attacking are often seen as a threat to liberal values.

 

[Kirran]

All religions and non-religions rape children. In America, our prisons are filled with them. I don't think they're muslims either.

I never said otherwise.

 

[esmith]

All religions and non-religions rape children. In America, our prisons are filled with them. I don't think they're muslims either.

No religions do not rape, people rape.
One has to look at the beliefs of various non-religious and religious sects to determine if they are outside of the moral standards of the world.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Why do liberals always seem to run to the aid of Muslims when there is such a difference in values?

For instance, if any of you Muslim RF members want to answer how you feel about abortion, homosexuality, and pornography and Liberal members of RF want to answer how you feel about those issues we could see what the connection is between the two. Let's compare and contrast and then try to answer why liberals seem to be all for Islam.

I both do and don't understand it.

Liberals as a whole average tend to be concerned with oppressed or discriminated minorities. And Muslims fit this description while being in the US. Conservatives which are rooted now in Christianity see's Islam as an enemy so it has been a knee jerk reaction to try and get on the opposite side of conservatives to protect the lil minority gorup.

However much I agree that this should be so I disagree with the lengths liberals have gone to accomidate Islam. I disagree with Islam as much as I disagree with Christianity. In fact perhaps moreso outside of the US and Europe.

But I guess liberals are at the defense of Muslims who hold opposite views to them for the same reason conservatives are against them despite agreeing on almost everything.

 

[Underhill]

I don't know. You'd have to ask the ones who do that. I don't. Nor -- so far as I know -- do most liberals. Instead, my impression is that it is only a vocal minority of liberals who gloss over the differences between Islamic and liberal values.

Perhaps but there is islam and there is islam. I support anyone being free to believe as they like. I also support decent treatment for people in general, regardless of religion. But when some Islamic groups do not support those same freedoms and/or treatment I, of course, am apposed to it.

 

[Godobeyer]

How is it cultural? It's compassionate, surely.

That's incorrect that most people in the West are accepting of stripping and adultery. You really want to believe it, I know, but it still isn't true.

By genital mutilation I mean any means by which the genitals of people, especially babies (boys and girls), are damaged through cutting.

Accept being cheated was really shocked me,it's cultural because I do believe some people got influenced by media(movies ...etc).

That's really surpised me, because I don't see any rejection against adultery and stripping in West.

Again is that include circumcision of boy(Muslim/Jewish tradition) ?

How about West rejection of other tradition like Niqab,and polygamy...etc ?

 

[Kirran]

Accept being cheated was really shocked me,it's cultural because I do believe some people got influenced by media(movies ...etc).

That's really surpised me, because I don't see any rejection against adultery and stripping in West.

Again is that include circumcision of boy(Muslim/Jewish tradition) ?

How about West rejection of other tradition like Niqab,and polygamy...etc ?

One can forgive someone for performing an activity they reject. I know people who reject beating children, but have still forgiven their parents for beating them as children. Same deal r.e. adultery.

I don't know why you don't see any rejection of stripping, it is certainly a frowned upon activity in Western society, no question.

Yeah, it includes cutting up the genitals of both boys and girls, including how it is performed by most Jews and Muslims.

I'm not sure the West exactly rejects the wearing of the niqab. There are Western Muslims who wear the niqab. Historically polygamy as practiced in the Middle East is a patriarchal construct, but I think in future we will reach acceptance of group marriages in many societies, which will constitute a form of polygamy.

 

[suncowiam]

Why do liberals always seem to run to the aid of Muslims when there is such a difference in values?

For instance, if any of you Muslim RF members want to answer how you feel about abortion, homosexuality, and pornography and Liberal members of RF want to answer how you feel about those issues we could see what the connection is between the two. Let's compare and contrast and then try to answer why liberals seem to be all for Islam.

I would aid the right wing conservative folks if they needed help let alone Muslims. We disagree on many things like "abortion, homosexuality and pornography."

 

[metis]

Why do liberals always seem to run to the aid of Muslims when there is such a difference in values?

Generally speaking, liberals have long championed civil rights for all, including supporting groups that we may not at all relate to. It would be nothing short of utter hypocrisy for liberals to only pull for some groups but not others.

 

[RedDragon94]

Hello .

My opinion is you are free to live your life, you can't apply your values on me,nor me can't apply your values on you.

So you have your religion,and way of life,I have mine

I'm not applying my values to you. What do you have in common with Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton?

 

[RedDragon94]

Generally speaking, liberals have long championed civil rights for all, including supporting groups that we may not at all relate to. It would be nothing short of utter hypocrisy for liberals to only pull for some groups but not others.

This group of people wants to take rights away from others. Period.

If what you say is true they ought to be defending evangelical Christians too, because they feel like people are attacking their right to practice their religion also.

 

[RedDragon94]

It seems to me that two factors enable the situation described in the OP.

One: There is a lot of genuine ignorance and misinformation about Islam. While some of it works against its reputation, much and quite possibly most of it ends up protecting it. Lacking proper information, we tend to assume that Islaam is not all that different from conservative Christianity. It is difficult to truly accept that there are whole countries which call apostasy a capital crime and where scripture is perceived as justification for bloody conflict.

Two: On the other hand, the right wing has become surprisingly extreme in the last few decades. Dealing with it has made liberals somewhat less sharp in its perceptions and more accomodating of gross excesso out of sheer lack of choice.

Which tells me that Liberalism is surrendering secularism in the name of social justice. Good-ness. smh

 

[LuisDantas]

Which tells me that Liberalism is surrendering secularism in the name of social justice. Good-ness. smh

I sure hope not.

In any case, it must be made clear that while there is a danger of failing to enforce secularism properly, it is by no means worse than the right-wing (alt or otherwise) of building up the social pressures, which solves nothing and is a wasteful postponing of the necessary measures.

 

[esmith]

I sure hope not.

In any case, it must be made clear that while there is a danger of failing to enforce secularism properly, it is by no means worse than the right-wing (alt or otherwise) of building up the social pressures, which solves nothing and is a wasteful postponing of the necessary measures.

It seems to me that social pressures, although not perfect, were considerable less prior to the Obama administration.

 

[LuisDantas]

It seems to me that social pressures, although not perfect, were considerable less prior to the Obama administration.

Not living there, I can only guess very indirectly.

Still... I very much doubt it. Or, at least, I don't think that changes anything for the better.

Logic would suggest that the very existence of an African-American President at a time when there are still people alive from the times before the integration laws of the 1960s would indeed bring to the surface a lot of previously contained hurt and mistrust. And indeed, that seems to have happened, in spades. The extent and nature of the vitriol against Obama defies imagination and brings the rational faculties of Americans into serious question.

It did not help that Obama followed a particularly shameful period of recent American history, when you had both GWB and the military fiascos in the Middle East to deal with.

TLDR: Sorry, but there is no way for me to conclude that you are not attempting to blame the victim.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I think Liberals saw the dangers of Nazism, so when numbers of islambashers increases and their voice gets louder the Liberals feels the need to stand up against them.