Life Begins at Conception

[McBell]

Well, it seems to me (in my humble opinion) that you might have missed one or two options; i.e., adoption, Adoption, and adoption.

There are literally millions of married couples begging for children they can adopt. But either governments get in the way, or rules are prohibitive, or expense is too high to process the adoption. And yes, there ARE many who DO care.

Oh yes, the ever popular "adoption" argument.
You really should read up on some of the other abortion threads here on RF and see if you can bring something to the table that has not been thoroughly refuted.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, it seems to me (in my humble opinion) that you might have missed one or two options; i.e., adoption, Adoption, and adoption.

There are literally millions of married couples begging for children they can adopt. But either governments get in the way, or rules are prohibitive, or expense is too high to process the adoption. And yes, there ARE many who DO care.

There are too many children born now that aren't adopted. It is immoral and unethical to force-feed more kids into that mess.

 

[Sententia]

What has any of that got to do with my question? How can you birth and abort a baby?

The point is it is perfectly acceptable for you to decide with your doctor how to handle a pregnancy if it is you having a baby. If another is having a baby then the choice is between them and their doctor and you not being either the doctor or the person with child have nothing to do with it.

Mayans practiced human sacrifice. Sufficient reason for God to judge.

The Mayan gods or some other god? I asked you what god you are focusing on. The mayans had their own religion but I don't think I have ever heard that they lost in some kind of god war. Very times of troubles... (Forgotten realms)

Quite an assertion. Any evidence, or just blowing off steam?

?

I guess I could further explain it...

Perhaps

(implying this is a possibility and I am not stating a fact but opening an idea for discussion.) ...

your problem with the obvious logic...

(To me it seems obvious that the choice of what a mother to be does would be up to the mother and since most mothers do not have babies alone and usually seek the advice and care of trained medical professionals then they would make their choice with the doctors advice. Why you would feel that it should neither be the mother or the doctor but you who would dictate the mothers choice seems like a problem with the obvious.)

could stem from your acceptance of a god...

(Many people accept many different gods or other supernatural beliefs)

and basing your decisions on a series of rationalizations forced upon you by accepting said fantastical world....

(You do know what rationalizing is? I was a smoker and I was a master of rationalization. The world is fantastical in the sense that there are many gods and supernatural beliefs and not all of them can be true and the fact that you really think yours is true and lacking infinite time have been unable to examine all the other possible choices and simply live your life based on the assumption you chose correctly means you are creating a world that exists just for you and some portions of the world you have created for yourself are fantastical but even still some parts of that world may overlap with others if you perhaps share the same faith. The end result is you will eventually run into odd things like no evidence for an afterlife which conflicts with your belief that there is an afterlife and now you start rationalizing why there must be an afterlife.)

Compound that with the fact that you reject every other god humanity has at one time embraced with the fact that you couldn't possibly know of every other god and never mind that acceptance of all historical gods while impossible would also result in utter nonsensical contradiction and you have your argument?

(So you can not know of all possible gods that have ever existed nor rationally chose one of them. You accepted one because you were convinced it was true by yourself or others or you were indoctrinated to accept it before you could rationally decide. You have to be a certain age to date, drive and drink but you can get baptized at birth... I guess there are other reasons people would accept a particular god but they can not say:

I have examined all religions and all gods and chose the one I think is true because they could not possibly have done so. There are just too many gods and religions.)

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, it seems to me (in my humble opinion) that you might have missed one or two options; i.e., adoption, Adoption, and adoption.

There are literally millions of married couples begging for children they can adopt. But either governments get in the way, or rules are prohibitive, or expense is too high to process the adoption. And yes, there ARE many who DO care.

It seems to me that you realize that your "adopt, adopt, adopt" policy is untenable and useless.

Personally I doubt that the "millions" you speak of exist [and how do you know], and you are insulated from the real world in some kind of Disney fancyland.

That's the only place where your "logic" works, too.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Oh yes, the ever popular "adoption" argument.
You really should read up on some of the other abortion threads here on RF and see if you can bring something to the table that has not been thoroughly refuted.

It's infuriating!

This is a prime example of how ignorance is anthropomorphic and heartless. It's why women in Kansas must get sonograms before an abortion, and the state is doing its best to make it difficult for POOR women to have access to abortion clinics [by forcing the clinics out of business by changing regulations on the buildings].

The pro-life movement is seething with a self-righteous anger that is completely apathetic towards the needs of women and the tragic consequences their theocracy will bring to families that they so loudly want to preserve.

They really only care about the established families, and not poor women who cannot afford birth control, the crack whore, teenage mothers, and other women that are already pushed aside by the ruling white Christians.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

And yes, there ARE many who DO care.

Law and practice indicate otherwise.

I get that people don't like abortion - but the movement ends there.

There is no nation-wide movement to change adoption policy that has the same support base as the pro-life group.

 

[AxisMundi]

Law and practice indicate otherwise.

I get that people don't like abortion - but the movement ends there.

There is no nation-wide movement to change adoption policy that has the same support base as the pro-life group.

Children are a political tool as far as the Religious Right (which are neither) are concerned, nothing more.

Those children afflictied with HIV/AIDs are mere collateral damage on their War on Gay.

Kids are used in their attempts to get g'ment to ban certain TV shows, books, or force religious myths back into public schools.

Kids are used in an attempt to force a removal of choice for abortion, yet they refuse to recognize the tens of thousands of kids that grow up in the system unadopted and most times unloved.

Those who politicize children don't really care about them.

 

[AxisMundi]

.....Mayans practiced human sacrifice. Sufficient reason for God to judge.......

The Mayans predate the birth of your gods, sorry.

And that's ignoring the simple fact that no gods, including yours, can wipe out canyone.

 

[Theo_Book]

Oh yes, the ever popular "adoption" argument.
You really should read up on some of the other abortion threads here on RF and see if you can bring something to the table that has not been thoroughly refuted.

Tell me, how exactly do you "refute" an adoption?

This should be entertaining.

 

[Theo_Book]

There are too many children born now that aren't adopted. It is immoral and unethical to force-feed more kids into that mess.

Right! More ethical to force feed them down a toilet.

 

[Venatoris]

Tell me, how exactly do you "refute" an adoption?

This should be entertaining.

Easy! We already have a plethora of children up for adoption who aren't being adopted. It's simple really, people who want to adopt children want newborn babies. If the children aren't adopted fast enough, they never will be and they get stuck in the system until they turn 18 and are tossed out on their collective *****.

 

[McBell]

Tell me, how exactly do you "refute" an adoption?

This should be entertaining.

Simply by pointing out the huge number of children, world wide, who are waiting to be adopted.
Simply by pointing out the number of children, world wide, who never get adopted.

I understand your:

"pre-birth,

I am behind you 110%;
​

pre-school,

***** YOU, you're on your own!"
​

attitude.
I just happen to find it extremely disgusting and completely out of touch with reality.

 

[Misty]

We have two adopted sons with special educational needs as well as three daughters born to us. The older son, now 37, came to us at the age of nine years, with eleven failed placements behind him. Caring for him was a rollercoaster ride as he had gained much emotional baggage during his time in the care system. We adopted our younger son, now 25, as a baby and although he is quite severely mentally disabled, he has no behavioural problems and has been a joy and blessing to the whole family.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Simply by pointing out the huge number of children, world wide, who are waiting to be adopted.
Simply by pointing out the number of children, world wide, who never get adopted.

I understand your:

"pre-birth,

I am behind you 110%;
​

pre-school,

***** YOU, you're on your own!"
​

attitude.

I just happen to find it extremely disgusting and completely out of touch with reality.

That's what I've been trying to say.

 

[Theo_Book]

Simply by pointing out the huge number of children, world wide, who are waiting to be adopted.
Simply by pointing out the number of children, world wide, who never get adopted.

I understand your:

"pre-birth,

I am behind you 110%;
​

pre-school,

***** YOU, you're on your own!"
​

attitude.
I just happen to find it extremely disgusting and completely out of touch with reality.

Nope! Not me!

You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you try to categorize me and make judgments based on that categorization.

 

[McBell]

Nope! Not me!

You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you try to categorize me and make judgments based on that categorization.

Your attempt at playing the martyr has failed.
Now you are merely beating a dead horse.

 

[AxisMundi]

Nope! Not me!

You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you try to categorize me and make judgments based on that categorization.

Yet your comments throughout this thread do nothing but support the opinion of Mest.

 

[Theo_Book]

Your attempt at playing the martyr has failed.
Now you are merely beating a dead horse.

And YOU are being silly in front of the whole world. I have made no claim of martyrdom, no claim of abuse, no claims whatsoever, except your attack without merit, and you seem to think if you repeat your slander often enough, something is bound to stick.

Or do you consider everyone with whom you disagree, to be claiming martyrdom if they respond?

I not only am no martyr, I have yet to see any serious response to my post. Just a lot of "Oh, you poor boy, you have been beaten so badly..."

Doesn't work with me. Try again.

 

[Venatoris]

And YOU are being silly in front of the whole world. I have made no claim of martyrdom, no claim of abuse, no claims whatsoever, except your attack without merit, and you seem to think if you repeat your slander often enough, something is bound to stick.

Or do you consider everyone with whom you disagree, to be claiming martyrdom if they respond?

I not only am no martyr, I have yet to see any serious response to my post. Just a lot of "Oh, you poor boy, you have been beaten so badly..."

Doesn't work with me. Try again.

Instead of posting about how you are offended by mestemia and his comments why don't you respond to people who aren't insulting you and ignore everyone else. This is how threads get derailed. I answered your post in a respectful way, didn't I? So why do you focus on the parts of mesty's posts that have nothing to do with the topic. Instead of commenting on the meat of his posts you decide to chew the fat and toss the rest.

 

[Theo_Book]

Instead of posting about how you are offended by mestemia and his comments why don't you respond to people who aren't insulting you and ignore everyone else. This is how threads get derailed. I answered your post in a respectful way, didn't I? So why do you focus on the parts of mesty's posts that have nothing to do with the topic. Instead of commenting on the meat of his posts you decide to chew the fat and toss the rest.

I stand corrected. What arguments do you have in mind that I should respond to? And why should I respond to ANY that avoid my post?

I offered simple statment of faith in the scriptural account of where life began. I do believe that was the theme of the OP. ANYTHING else is not pertinant to the issue of "life begins at conception." I showed my reason for believing life begins prior to conception, and is part of the process of conception.

Since I have offended other posters, I first apologize, and second I move on. It was not my intent to offend. It is just that I find none of the responses to deal with the issue raised in my post, which in fact does respond to the OP.