Life Begins at Conception

[darkendless]

If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand.

This should be interesting: please, do it.

I was just trying to say that a zygote is no more alive than bacteria. Bacteria can function on its own, a zygote cant. A baby in a womb cannot survive by itself until a certain time, and even then, the odds are bad.

I think if we voted on rights Christianity would kick up a stink and get abortion banned.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yeah, yeah. The difference of course is that when the plumbing works, the zygote becomes an adult human.

When the plumbing works, a sperm cell and an unfertilized egg become an adult human as well.

Frankly, the zygote is merely a different stage of growth for a human being. There's no particular reason to consider a twelve-year-old child more "human" or more "viable" than a zygote. There is little to distinguish them morally.

Really? I find this position bizarre. You can't distinguish between a 12-year-old child and a zygote?

Why does a 12-year-old child have human rights? Because she's human. Same for the zygote.

No, the 12-year-old child has human rights because she's a thinking, feeling being. A zygote isn't.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I know there is somewhere in the Bible that Jesus acknowledges a child in the womb, and the women didn't know she was pregnant yet. That's enough proof for me.
I'll try to find it and post later.

Sorry, but I find it amazing when someone bases their beliefs on a book they do not even know. If you are going to claim a belief, then know your scripture.
I challenge Free4all to find such a verse, chapter, or book in the NT where this event happens.

(Hint-Look at the story of John the Baptist, I am sure this is where your confusion comes from)

 

[DadBurnett]

Not exactly. But in the book of Jeremiah,it's implied, that our purpose in this life may be predetermined before our birth. The Lord told Jeremiah, when he was called to be a prophet...
"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

I can offer no proof whatsover, but i came into this life experience with the sure knowledge that I had somehow existed before birth or conception. For over seventy years I have know this, without ever being able to explain ir or attach a label to it.

 

[Free4all]

Sorry, but I find it amazing when someone bases their beliefs on a book they do not even know. If you are going to claim a belief, then know your scripture.
I challenge Free4all to find such a verse, chapter, or book in the NT where this event happens.

(Hint-Look at the story of John the Baptist, I am sure this is where your confusion comes from)

****fire I never said NT. ..... Maybe the OT

 

[Dunemeister]

Respondeo (and final salvo)

Exactly, and people need to mind their own business and take care of their own responsibilitites, rather than constantly sticking their noses where they don't belong.

I'm arguing from a strictly moral point of view. I'm not making any claims about how this should be handled from a public policy point of view. That said, my point (in case you missed it) is that this debate has foundered on the twin rocks of baby's right to exist versus the mother's right to choose. This frame for the debate pits mother against baby, and I think that's unfortunate. What should have happened is that the needs of everyone, including mother, father, and child are considered and dealt with. (I'm speaking of typical cases, not extreme ones involving rape, incest, etc.)

I was just trying to say that a zygote is no more alive than bacteria. Bacteria can function on its own, a zygote cant. A baby in a womb cannot survive by itself until a certain time, and even then, the odds are bad.

Well, degree of aliveness isn't at issue. It's aliveness + humanness. Your second point actually underscores mine. We're dealing with a completely dependent, utterly defenseless human being. It's about as needy as a human being can be. This means it needs (there's that word again) to be cared for more at this time than at any other.

Really? I find this position bizarre. You can't distinguish between a 12-year-old child and a zygote?

Morally, no. Inasmuch as a being's humanity is morally significant, there's no distinction to be made between them.

No, the 12-year-old child has human rights because she's a thinking, feeling being. A zygote isn't.

This whole "thinking, feeling" bit has really got to go. Humans lose their capacity to think and feel for various reasons, yet we'd be shocked to hear the suggestion that such people could or even should be killed. If we're hesitant to kill people who have lost that capacity, we should be equally hesitant to kill people who are developing that capacity.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I know there is somewhere in the Bible that Jesus acknowledges a child in the womb, and the women didn't know she was pregnant yet. That's enough proof for me.
I'll try to find it and post later.

S***fire I never said NT. ..... Maybe the OT

Oh, so Jesus is in the OT?
Wow, you know your scripture so well you can find things no one else has ever found.

Oh, please watch the language...this is a family site.:no:

 

[Free4all]

Oh, so Jesus is in the OT?
Wow, you know your scripture so well you can find things no one else has ever found.

Oh, please watch the language...this is a family site.:no:

Yeah, good point, I'll watch my language... and oh yes he's in the OT ya know the trinity? Isn't there in Genesis blah... well yu know the rest.

 

[darkendless]

Respondeo (and final salvo)

Well, degree of aliveness isn't at issue. It's aliveness + humanness. Your second point actually underscores mine. We're dealing with a completely dependent, utterly defenseless human being. It's about as needy as a human being can be. This means it needs (there's that word again) to be cared for more at this time than at any other.

Human-ness was created by us to make ourselves look better than animals. We're not, we're just another species, we're less essential to life on earth than bacteria, because all we do is destroy it.

 

[fanofchiefs]

Not a one that I am aware of.
At least, none that are clear.

Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Full of sin. Whoot!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Full of sin. Whoot!

Let's celebrate the birth of these little newborn balls of sin! muwhahaha

 

[Darkness]

Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

It seems the New International Version translated the intent a little different than it was originally intended.

King James:
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

American Standard Version:
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me.

The idea of this passage seems to be a condemnation (perhaps necessary evil) of sex for reproduction.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Yeah, good point, I'll watch my language... and oh yes he's in the OT ya know the trinity? Isn't there in Genesis blah... well yu know the rest.

Ah, OK.....um, can you show me the "Trinity" mentioned anywhere in the OT?
And have you had any luck finding that verse that you base your belief on?

 

[McBell]

Psalm 51:5

Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Pray tell how that verse explains that life begins at conception..?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Is there any biblical basis for the claim that life begins at conception?

"And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls..." Exodus 2:5 They were souls before they were even impregnated into their mother.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Full of sin. Whoot!

You obviously do not believe the Bible.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls..." Exodus 2:5 They were souls before they were even impregnated into their mother.

So... life doesn't begin at conception; it begins at some point before? Is that your position?

 

[Enlighten]

You obviously do not believe the Bible.

May I ask what leads you to this conclusion?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So... life doesn't begin at conception; it begins at some point before? Is that your position?

In that souls enter into an egg through the father, yes.