Life From Dirt?

[Subduction Zone]

There is no evidence that he did even that.
God is a imaginary product of human fear of difficulties and death. Perhaps also of the guilt of our own evil acts, like the thugs worshiped Goddess Kali.

I know, but at least it is in the realm of unanswered questions. But I have noticed that many religious people do not want a rational god. They want a god that follows their beliefs of what a god should be. And that will very often be based upon stories that they learned as children.

 

[shunyadragon]

You don’t adhere to any a priori beliefs? Riiight.

You say you don't have any emotional investment in this….
Yet your replies drip with sarcasm and sometimes vehemence. (In fact, when I read them many times, I picture you yelling.)

Huh? “…no amount of "documented supernatural encounters" with thor or allah will convince you of the truth of viking theology or islam.” ??
Actually, everything I have observed in this world, all empirical knowledge I’ve come across so far, ie., reality (and some of what I’ve been trained to reason on & deduce), supports my POV. I’ve even adjusted my understanding to fit it…. And it fits nicely. (I’ve willingly accepted some help, too.) I try not to ignore anything, either. Read on….

And here is where you are wrong. I accept evolution….to a point.

If it didn’t occur, there’d be no MRSA, or LTEE or Drosophila experiments, or new species arising.

I understand that you support science to the hilt.
Well, be informed that when scientists resort to explanations that employ suppositional language, like “probably”, or “likely”, or “could have been”… that’s belief / philosophy; and until it’s either proven or superseded / recanted, to portray these explanations as factual, is not exactly truthful, is it?

No, you do not accept evolution to any point . . . and you selectively and dishonestly cited sources to justify your ancient religious agenda.

ALL your posts reflect this.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Could be, but we haven’t discovered every form of energy there is, have we? @Sgt. Pepper registers some form of energy on her devices, but those devices apparently can’t seem to detect every instance when they are near. If I’m wrong, correct me, Sgt.Pepper.

Yes, that is correct. As I previously stated, I have traveled across the country to investigate several notoriously haunted locations and didn't get a single response to record with my ghost-hunting equipment. On the other hand, I've been to places that aren't known to be haunted and have been bombarded with poltergeist activity and personal interactions with spirits. I have, however, had a few dud investigations, despite having had many successful ones over the years. I have had unsuccessful investigations because the spirits are erratic and don't always respond and answer inquiries from the living. In the sixteen years I've been investigating haunted locations, I've never demanded an answer from a spirit or made a stern request for them to manifest themselves, and I've never provoked a spirit. If a spirit is upset by my presence and tells me to leave, then I leave. I won't stay and demand that I have a right to be there. I show them respect since I am in their home, and they typically reciprocate respect towards me. I take into account that the human spirits I'm interacting with were once living individuals, so I treat them the same way I would treat living people. I know better than to disrespect the dead, and those who do may face serious consequences. In the sixteen years that I've been investigating the paranormal, no spirits have ever physically harmed me. Admittedly, I have had one negative experience with a spirit, but it was inadvertently my fault (see here). Other than that, I haven't experienced anything overly negative.

In most investigations that I conduct, I'll have an arsenal of ghost-hunting equipment at my disposal (including but not limited to: the GS2 Laser Grid System, an SLS camera, a thermal imaging camera, a full-spectrum camera, phasm lights, REM pods, Flux 2 response devices, EMF meters, motion sensors, spike temperature sensors, touch-activated flashing balls, BooBuddy Ghost Hunting Interactive Talking Bear, a paranormal puck, a paranormal music box, EVP recorders, spirit boxes, and an obvilus). If possible, I'll go to the location the day before the investigation and do a simple walk-through without any equipment. It allows me to get a feel for the place as well as learn the terrain. I go alone because I don't want anyone interfering by telling me about the property, the history of the property, or any paranormal experiences they or others have had at the location. If it's a modern location, then I will make sure the electricity is completely shut off so nothing electrical interferes with my EMF meters. I typically use my more advanced equipment: GS2 Laser Grid System with multiple sensors (see here), TriField TF2 EMF Meter (see here), Ovilus 5 Ghost Box (see here), Onvoy Ghost Box (see here), Phasm video and light kit (see here), spike temperature sensors (see here), Flux 2 response devices (see here), Paranormal Music Box (see here), and if I suspect a child spirit or more than one, then I'd use my interactive talking bear called BooBuddy. I've devoted the last sixteen years of my life to meticulously researching and investigating the paranormal. If you take the time to read my post here, then you'll see that investigating the paranormal is something that I take seriously.

But with @Sgt. Pepper , she has no vested interest, ie., gets no money fame or power, in posting her experiences. In fact — as I said before — it leaves her open to derision & scoffing. Why would she do that, if these weren’t genuine encounters?

That is correct. I've never asked for money or sought fame and fortune. I realize that I have a gift that I'm personally responsible for using to help others, whether they are living or dead. Sadly, I spent the majority of my life hiding my gift of mediumship from others and sometimes denying it to myself. It was a miserable and lonely existence. I felt isolated and alone. I further explained what I've experienced with my psychic mediumship in a previous post here.

If I meant to ‘put her on the spot’, I would have tagged you.
I was trying to be considerate of the both of you: I thought you would have been upset with her, saying what she did, and she’d be embarrassed. I didn’t want to get you mad, either.

I’ll tag you from now on.

I understand, and I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'm not upset by what @SkepticThinker said or what other skeptics have said about what I've shared on this forum. I've stated many times that, as far as I'm concerned, skeptics can decide for themselves whether to believe me or not. I don't post about my experiences in an effort to convince them that my mediumship is real or that the paranormal is real. I let the chips fall where they may, just as I do when I'm interacting with skeptics during my paranormal investigations. I welcome skeptics to participate in my investigations. I always let them make their own decision on whether to believe and never tried to convince them. Finally, I recommend reading my previous post here, where I demonstrate that.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, that is correct. As I previously stated, I have traveled across the country to investigate several notoriously haunted locations and didn't get a single response to record with my ghost-hunting equipment. On the other hand, I've been to places that aren't known to be haunted and have been bombarded with poltergeist activity and personal interactions with spirits. I have, however, had a few dud investigations, despite having had many successful ones over the years. I have had unsuccessful investigations because the spirits are erratic and don't always respond and answer inquiries from the living. In the sixteen years I've been investigating haunted locations, I've never demanded an answer from a spirit or made a stern request for them to manifest themselves, and I've never provoked a spirit. If a spirit is upset by my presence and tells me to leave, then I leave. I won't stay and demand that I have a right to be there. I show them respect since I am in their home, and they typically reciprocate respect towards me. I take into account that the human spirits I'm interacting with were once living individuals, so I treat them the same way I would treat living people. I know better than to disrespect the dead, and those who do may face serious consequences. In the sixteen years that I've been investigating the paranormal, no spirits have ever physically harmed me. Admittedly, I have had one negative experience with a spirit, but it was inadvertently my fault (see here). Other than that, I haven't experienced anything overly negative.

In most investigations that I conduct, I'll have an arsenal of ghost-hunting equipment at my disposal (including but not limited to: the GS2 Laser Grid System, an SLS camera, a thermal imaging camera, a full-spectrum camera, phasm lights, REM pods, Flux 2 response devices, EMF meters, motion sensors, spike temperature sensors, touch-activated flashing balls, BooBuddy Ghost Hunting Interactive Talking Bear, a paranormal puck, a paranormal music box, EVP recorders, spirit boxes, and an obvilus). If possible, I'll go to the location the day before the investigation and do a simple walk-through without any equipment. It allows me to get a feel for the place as well as learn the terrain. I go alone because I don't want anyone interfering by telling me about the property, the history of the property, or any paranormal experiences they or others have had at the location. If it's a modern location, then I will make sure the electricity is completely shut off so nothing electrical interferes with my EMF meters. I typically use my more advanced equipment: GS2 Laser Grid System with multiple sensors (see here), TriField TF2 EMF Meter (see here), Ovilus 5 Ghost Box (see here), Onvoy Ghost Box (see here), Phasm video and light kit (see here), spike temperature sensors (see here), Flux 2 response devices (see here), Paranormal Music Box (see here), and if I suspect a child spirit or more than one, then I'd use my interactive talking bear called BooBuddy. I've devoted the last sixteen years of my life to meticulously researching and investigating the paranormal. If you take the time to read my post here, then you'll see that investigating the paranormal is something that I take seriously.



That is correct. I've never asked for money or sought fame and fortune. I realize that I have a gift that I'm personally responsible for using to help others, whether they are living or dead. Sadly, I spent the majority of my life hiding my gift of mediumship from others and sometimes denying it to myself. It was a miserable and lonely existence. I felt isolated and alone. I further explained what I've experienced with my psychic mediumship in a previous post here.



I understand, and I apologize for the misunderstanding. I'm not upset by what @SkepticThinker said or what other skeptics have said about what I've shared on this forum. I've stated many times that, as far as I'm concerned, skeptics can decide for themselves whether to believe me or not. I don't post about my experiences in an effort to convince them that my mediumship is real or that the paranormal is real. I let the chips fall where they may, just as I do when I'm interacting with skeptics during my paranormal investigations. I welcome skeptics to participate in my investigations. I always let them make their own decision on whether to believe and never tried to convince them. Finally, I recommend reading my previous post here, where I demonstrate that.

How is this discussion of the paranormal remotely related to the question of 'life from dirt'?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

How is this discussion of the paranormal remotely related to the question of 'life from dirt'?

Why do you think you can dictate the direction of this thread when it isn't your thread and you're not a staff member?

 

[Trailblazer]

How is this discussion of the paranormal remotely related to the question of 'life from dirt'?

It isn't related, but @Hockeycowboy addressed @Sgt. Pepper in post #2,600 and she was just responding to him.

Could be, but we haven’t discovered every form of energy there is, have we? @Sgt. Pepper registers some form of energy on her devices, but those devices apparently can’t seem to detect every instance when they are near. If I’m wrong, correct me, Sgt.Pepper.

 

[shunyadragon]

It isn't related, but @Hockeycowboy addressed @Sgt. Pepper in post #2,600 and she was just responding to him.

Still not related, any OFF TOPIC dialogue takes two to tango, and interfers with the thread topic.

 

[shunyadragon]

Why do you think you can dictate the direction of this thread when it isn't your thread and you're not a staff member?

I do not dictate, Any member may object to OFF TOPIC chatter that derails the discussion the subject of the thread,

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I do not dictate, Any member may object to OFF TOPIC chatter that derails the discussion the subject of the thread,

If someone tags me, either to mention my name or ask me a question, I'll usually respond to them, especially if the topic is already being discussed by others, as the topic of the supernatural has been in this thread. Now if a staff member, for instance, posts and requests that everyone get back on the original topic of the thread, then I will certainly abide by their request. Otherwise, I'll continue to respond to someone who mentions me in their posts.

 

[shunyadragon]

If someone tags me, either to mention my name or ask me a question, I'll usually respond to them, especially if the topic is already being discussed by others, as the topic of the supernatural has been in this thread. Now if a staff member, for instance, posts and requests that everyone get back on the original topic of the thread, then I will certainly abide by their request. Otherwise, I'll continue to respond to someone who mentions me in their posts.

The logical course is to start thread on the topic and redirect the conversation.

I believe it is proper forum etiquette to maintain the topic of the thread, which in this case is the question of 'life from dirt?' concerning a dialogue between different views of the origins and evolution of life.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The logical course is to start thread on the topic and redirect the conversation.

But then, you and all the other materialistic-minded folk on here would ignore it, and the evidence it brings to the subject….

Because I believe the different subjects - materialism & spirit influence - are connected, in an albeit distant but enlightening fashion. And I wanted you all to at least be aware of it.

It seems I’m beating a dead horse, though.

I’ll stop.

 

[YoursTrue]

Just like the Illiad. But no Bible author claims to have had direct input from god. Neither does any other religious founder I know of. The closest are those who claim angelic visitation. That's called plausible deniability.

Moses had "direct input" in many senses with God. The Bible aptly says that no one can see God and live -- No human has literally seen God. That is confirmed at Exodus 33:20 that no one can see God's face and live. God was very close with Moses (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) God told Moses, “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live."

 

[shunyadragon]

But then, you and all the other materialistic-minded folk on here would ignore it, and the evidence it brings to the subject….

Because I believe the different subjects - materialism & spirit influence - are connected, in an albeit distant but enlightening fashion. And I wanted you all to at least be aware of it.

It seems I’m beating a dead horse, though.

I’ll stop.

You need not stop. just strate a thread that deals with the spiritual side of you discussion with @Sgt. Pepper I will gladly participate.

I am not a materialistic minded folk. I believe in God and God Created the Natural Laws and natural processes. Creation reflects the attributes of God in our physical existence. The dice are loaded, and abiogenesis and evolution that results in humanity are the result.

 

[YoursTrue]

There is no evidence that he did even that.
God is a imaginary product of human fear of difficulties and death. Perhaps also of the guilt of our own evil acts, like the thugs worshiped Goddess Kali.

I've never heard of goddess kali until now. But in the context it doesn't matter because -- gorillas have not written their history of anything they may have encountered.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is a mistake when discussing an event that is in the realm of the sciences. Just as it would be a mistake to try to analyze that a god said.

Perhaps instead of believing that God magicked the first life form into existence why not just give him credit with starting the universe? Why demote him to a Step and Fetch It God?

Where did scientists come up with the idea of life maybe starting 3+ billion years ago? Of course there's no proof of that, but I wonder how they 'know.' or guess.

 

[shunyadragon]

I've never heard of goddess kali until now. But in the context it doesn't matter because -- gorillas have not written their history of anything they may have encountered.

Some primates indeed are able to communicate with humans and other primate through the language of hand signing like humans do that cannot hear or speak. It has been observed that some primates and teach the hand sign language to their friends.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where did scientists come up with the idea of life maybe starting 3+ billion years ago? Of course there's no proof of that, but I wonder how they 'know.' or guess.

What have you been told about the word "proof" umpteen times?

Try again. Ask your question properly.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't question their experience, I question their conclusions and probably their perception, in any case their epistemology.
"Believe nothing what you hear and only half of what you see." - E. A. Poe


Time again to post this Michael Shermer talk:

We evolved with superstition on our mind. Agenticity is why we invented spirits which later became the polytheistic gods. That is an explanation that takes the most data into account without unnecessarily multiplying entities.

I looked at the section about the birds pecking. Michael Shermer calls their eventual hunt for the reward superstition. Why he calls it that is beyond me, perhaps you can explain it. I'm looking at a definition of superstition, it says: "a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief:"
I can't see how this is relegated to the birds in that pecking situation.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I've never heard of goddess kali until now. But in the context it doesn't matter because -- gorillas have not written their history of anything they may have encountered.

What have gorillas to do with what I have written. Thugs were/are criminals. They exist in West also (Scammers, confidence killers). And they have their guilt and their religious beliefs too. A pedophile, a rapist priest or one who uses church money for his luxuries also is that.

 

[Heyo]

Moses had "direct input" in many senses with God. The Bible aptly says that no one can see God and live -- No human has literally seen God. That is confirmed at Exodus 33:20 that no one can see God's face and live. God was very close with Moses (Exodus 33:20; John 1:18; 1 John 4:12) God told Moses, “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live."

Moses is a character in the creation myth, not an author.