Underhill
Well-Known Member
My point is that 40% are in favor of something other than bombing. The 10% number doesn't ring true. But without seeing the poll questions it's hard to judge too precisely.
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Lifting sanctions positive effects? Alternatives?
- Thread starter Brickjectivity
- Start date
My point is that 40% are in favor of something other than bombing. The 10% number doesn't ring true. But without seeing the poll questions it's hard to judge too precisely.
That seems to demonstrate an embarrassing lack of imagination and information.
dust1n
Zindīq
If Israeli's want to attack Iran, go for it. I just wouldn't expect my support, money in anyway.
Thanks.
dust1n
Zindīq
No need to thank me. It's their sovereignty, they can do what they wish with it.
dust1n
Zindīq
You are right, we haven't seen anything yet. It's almost 2016 and the second term is up, and we still haven't seen anything yet, probably less then had McCain or Romney ever got elected.
Yes, America should get in the business of influencing the public of various countries, because America just isn't going to make it through WW3 without Greece on their side.
We do have problems having ties with certain regimes and political systems. I think maybe you are exaggerating a lot.
True though removing sanctions also empowers the regime. What it does do is for us is 1 disentangle us from the situation just a little bit, leaving room for other political forces to step in along with 2 relieving the sanctions on other people, and the whole point of sanctions has been to secure an agreement about nukes. 3 Also this allows us to show good faith, which helps us diplomatically overall.
I agree that Israel understands the situation better than us. It doesn't fix our over-involvement in the middle east, and Israel did not put sanctions on Iran. We put sanctions on Iran in an effort to prevent war or at least stave it off. Its up to us whether to keep sanctions in place. Can Israel help disentangle us from our middle east involvement? It can only get us more involved, and its always going to put itself before us. I don't expect it to put USA first.
Wirey
Fartist
I don't. Israel is reacting emotionally. A mother yelling that her baby is ill doesn't automatically have a better understanding of what's happening than the doctor.
This is, at base, a good deal. Every time you get some of what you want without a war, it's not a bad thing.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
Why don't you tell me what you really think...?
But I'll ignore your crass remarks and break it down for you. I think the 40% who are against bombing are looking for an alternative. I am not surprised that the majority of Israelis have jumped into the camp that belittles this deal. Clearly you have. But, I think the more time goes by and the more educated people get about the deal, the more will support it. So that 10% should come a lot closer to that 40% number.
I posted a story where they asked experts about the deal. People who had actually read the details. It included a range of specialties from nuclear scientist to diplomats from the region. All had positive things to say about it.
Of course, and one possible alternative would be a P5+1 commitment against Iran militarism and state supported terrorism.
No wonder you proclaimed:
Do you even read your own nonsense? Or are you suggesting that the majority of Israelis are disingenuous frauds?
Rubbish. I provisionally support the deal, but only as the lesser of two evils that threatens Israel and the region.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
I don't know about the rest of that group but the US has already done that. This deal is what they could get. Trying to wrap up all of that into this deal would have just meant it would never get anywhere.
No more than the majority of Americans. But it's not uncommon for people to jump on the bandwagon until they learn more. It's happened in this country a half dozen times just in the last year.
So you are this combative with everyone. I'll keep that in mind.
I tend to speak informally on these forums and don't claim to be an expert.
So your informal view of the Israeli people is that ...
and that ...
OK.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
It's called an opinion. I was wrong about "the majority".
Happy? Do I need to offer a formal apology? Or will this suffice?
I don't know what you need, but you might consider acquiring a more informative opinion on the Middle East and Israelis before pontificating on the subject. There are very, very few 'happy' Israelis today, and to believe otherwise is more than wrong.
Its often worth a try. I'm not so sure why you had to bring my mother into this.
Underhill
Well-Known Member
If this forum were only for experts there would be very few posters and even less of a point.
Obviously what I said hit a nerve and for that I apologize. I didn't mean to offend. I intended harmless speculation, nothing more.
That is indeed the question. There is some serious derangement running around when people talk endlessly about "being tough" with Iran as if that were a plan.
It is not. Scaring and threatening "hostile" countries will only carry the day to a point, and it is destructive in the long run anyway.
The USA can only stretch themselves so far, and always at a price. The money is not even the most significant part, serious as it is.
Ultimately, to be safe from Iran (or any other country) it is necessary to give them reasons to at least want to be in non-hostile relationships.
In this regard, Iran is actually shaming the USA.
Edited to add: a blog that I follow suggests two worthwhile articles on the matter, which I want to share with you. It is important to notice that the matter at hand is by no means whether t "allow" Iran to have a nuclear program, but rather whether it is worth getting it to cooperate.
The Iran nuclear deal offers a clear choice: Constrain the Islamic Republic or watch it grow stronger.
Why Republicans Are So Mad About Obama's Nuclear Deal With Iran - The Atlantic
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Underhill
Well-Known Member
Good articles.
My favorite line is this... "In life, what matters most isn’t how a decision compares to your ideal outcome. It’s how it compares to the alternative at hand."