The point is that extreme unfounded demonization
of the other side is never right, & never useful.
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Lincoln Project Admits it Sent Fake White Nationalists to Republican Rally
- Thread starter Bodie
- Start date
of the other side is never right, & never useful.
I agree.
But one should also be preemptive and quick to call out fascism. Regardless of the side it comes from. Lest history repeats itself
If you portray all Trump supporters as vile racists,
you'll never have an opportunity to sway them
with conversation. It's unproductive. And wrong.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But it is sometimes entertaining
Again I agree. And I have never once said as much. Even gone out of my way to say that I don’t think every Trump supporter is a White Supremacist. Have I not?
Only that there are such folks in the Trump Base. Not all, but some. And if we allow them to hide behind their version of political correctness, all we allow is plausible deniability and the festering of white supremacy.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
That is true. It is why Hillary's "basketful of deplorables" backfired. Unfortunately it now appears that there are more than just a basketful of them.
It struck me as damning with faint praise.
As my comment about commies & Democrats was.
Given that I’m not American, I can only offer my outsider observations.
I don’t think all Trump supporters are white supremacists. Because I know that in Americastan many voters on both sides are single issue voters or just vote for who they hate the least. Kind of like over here, really. So many of the Trump base will have their own reasons for supporting him. Maybe they genuinely liked his policies. Maybe they just preferred him over Hilary. Whatever the case may be, I recognise and accept that.
But I will not shy away from my observation that those in the very hard core subset, the ones who followed Trump as one does a cult of personality, usually seem to belong to various fascist organisations. Ironically such groups are diverse in their beliefs. So they won’t all act the same.
In related news:Considering all the supposed "White supremacists" that are around every corner, under every bed nibbling at ones toes, and coming for your children one would not think it necessary to invent them. This playacting with social and political fire is disingenuous, divisive, and undermines democracy, shame on them.
"The anti-Republican political action committee The Lincoln Project claimed responsibility Friday for a stunt in which activists dressed up as tiki torch-carrying white nationalists in a bid to link Virginia GOP gubernatorial candidate Glenn Youngkin to racist views."
Lincoln Project claims responsibility for fake ‘white supremacists’ at Glenn Youngkin event
"The Lincoln Project sent a group posing as white supremacists with tiki torches to a GOP campaign event in Virginia ahead of the state's gubernatorial election"
Lincoln Project Sends Fake White Supremacists to Virginia GOP Event
Handmaids at protest not actually handmaids
Baby-like gasbag was a decoy and not actually Trump, sources say
Oh - and in hindsight, I'm pretty sure that 5-year-old trick-or-treater last night was only posing as a firefighter. Shame!
It's only too much if it hurts the cause of protecting America from the right.
I see the culture wars in the States as a cold war, with the conservatives having no compunctions or principles apart from a quest for power by any means possible. They are not fellow anything, just enemies of democracy, the rule of law, the middle class, and church-state separation. That is, they are enemies of America.
They are not restrained by temperance or forbearance. There is nothing they consider unethical or off the table. There is no longer a shared vision or shared values with such people.
In the light of that, my answer is the same as it would have been had I been asked what is too much with the Soviets? What tactic could possibly be unethical dealing with such a government? Is it possible to be unfair to them? Treat them like the US treated Castro. Or Hussain. Or bin Laden - all enemies of the United States.
I say no, and no here as well. I have different values for those with whom I share those values than I do for these people. I wouldn't lie to an honest person, but I wouldn't hesitate to lie to these people. Although this was not that, I would support a false flag operation if it weakened the enemy and provided a tactical advantage to those attempting to protect democracy and the middle class from these people.
Anything that helps defeat Younkin is fair game, including tying him to Trump and his fascist base, which is what the Lincoln Project did so well in 2020.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The only disagreement I have is with calling Republicans conservative. Those days are gone.
Question from an outsider. What do you see as the difference between Republicans and Conservatives?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It depends on what sort of "conservative" one is talking about. If it is a fiscal conservative, that is one that does not overspend and is mindful of the bills the Republicans lost the ability to claim that some time ago. Now they are merely anti-tax. Paying the bills is part of being a fiscal conservative. If one goes by less government they lost that two when they catered to the anti-abortion crowd. Personal freedom used to be part of being a Republican. Not so anymore if it is a woman or in many cases a minority.
Less than "all", eh.
Such generosity.
What can I say. I’m a very generous person
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
I disagree.
Why?
If you allow fascism to grow all you’ve done is allow fascism to grow. We need to be educated, alert and vigilant.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And that should be of concern to us as, according to Trump's first wife, Ivana, Trump read NAZI propaganda regularly that he kept on his bedstand. Granted, this is hearsay, however...
I wouldn't go so far as calling him a NAZI, but the fact is that he has repeatedly praised "strong leaders" on many occasions, and that includes numerous autocrats including Vladimir Putin. Matter of fact, he asked the Russians for help during the 2016 campaign by asking them to release Hillary's e-mails, and that same evening they were indeed released.
Why anyone in their right mind would continue to support such a dangerous man with dangerous connections is beyond me. It seems that they may have some sort of "death wish" so as to kill our democracy and replace it with a Trump dictatorship.
So many live in a world of total demonization of the 'other'.
Is inability / refusal to see any humanity in them something
to be proud of?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sadly some think that a dictatorship would not be all that bad, if it was their sort of dictatorship.