Little girl taunted because she didn't "believe in Jesus"

[JacobEzra.]

And what is this 'lesson' you can teach with a stick? Sounds eerily similar to the 'lesson' in the other thread for insubordinate wives.

I tought a kid a lesson when he said Heil Hitler to my face, knowing I was Jewish. Major difference then beating a supposed "insubordinate wife"

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Corporal punishment is a useful tool if used correctly... just like communication can be a useful tool if used correctly. People who are all about banning corporal punishment and instead focusing on touchy feely talks need to look at the damage words can do to their children when not done correctly and the damage that not disciplining their children properly is doing to society when corporal punishment is not done correctly.

There is a place for BOTH, some brats just need a thick ear; I know I did on many an occasion.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not all people or countries would agree. South Sudan surprised me. The rest, not so much.
States with full abolition

 

[Kathryn]

The name is Ecuador. It is not the equator, the name Ecuador actually comes from the fact that the Equator crosses the country pretty much in the center.

I couldn´t actually speak for all Ecuador, only for my city Guayaquil and I would say we at least have dramatically less bullying. The thing is if you ever physically hurt an other student you are very much prone to expulsion. Both in public and private schools. But I am talking privates mostly cause if you want reasonable education and are middle class or above, that is what you have for your kids.

Psychological bullying I would guess exists everywhere, it´s part of being kids and humans, to be.. you know, ufle.

But is just too rarely based on reliigion or goes to the extremes I´ve heard from united states. Putting pople in trash cans is not treated lightly in any part of Guayaquil that I know of at least. That is probably an expulsion from the school if not very near it.




hopefully. it´s an anomally . Sorry double quote

Hmmm, couple of things I feel a need to point out.

First of all - There is a city called Equador, so the spelling could easily be confused. I would think that mistake in spelling is fairly common. Ecuador is a very small country (about the size of the state of Louisiana) and to be honest, lots of people probably don't know how to spell it since we rarely have a need to type it, let alone even THINK of it. But thanks for the spelling lesson.


There's really no way to accurately compare the attitudes of your city in Ecuador to the attitudes of ALL Americans. It simply can't be done. Such generalizations are simply - impossible.

For every story that someone could post regarding intolerance and bigotry in the US, there would be another story posted that told a story that seemed to be the opposite. For instance, I live in a small town in Northeast Texas, and I can promise you that such behavior as outlined in the OP simply would NOT be tolerated by our school district. Those involved would be expelled. But that really proves nothing about the US in general, only about my town in East Texas. Just as your account only proves what you believe about your town in Ecuador.

All that aside though - what I find troubling is that the PARENTS seemed to continue to place their child in harm's way. As the mother of five, I promise you that the first time someone stabbed my daughter in the leg with a pencil, all hell would break loose. That is PHYSICAL ASSAULT and I simply would not tolerate it. Nor would I continue to put my child on a bus where people spat on her or cursed at her.

They are saying this level of abuse went on for years. They allowed this? They continued to place their daughter in this situation? I am not saying that some of this didn't happen - maybe it did. Maybe all of it did. If so, it's a real shame, and both the school district AND the parents should have to answer for why that child was forced to put up with that level of abuse for so many years.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

*Shrugs* just societies (and those wanting to appear just for that matter) often attempt to protect the weak from the abuses of the strong. Corporal punishment is one area where abuse may occur - that doesnt change the fact that corporal punishment may be an effective and humane tool for discipline. There are indeed people who will go too far with their corporal punishment such that it becomes abuse, or who instead merely use corporal punishment to excuse abuse that they inflict. But then there are a myriad of ways such abuse could manifest; as I mentioned even words can wound - do we ban talking? that would be silly.

So I say thump the little snots *nods wisely*

 

[Kathryn]

By the way, when I was in school, in jr high, I was bullied regularly by a gang of black girls. I have no idea why - my family (and I) are not prejudiced at all, and in fact my parents punished me when I was five because I called someone the N word - and I didn't even know what it meant! (I called my brother that name!)

These girls would stalk me thru the halls. I had long hair and they would regularly walk behind me and push me and pull my hair so hard my head would jerk backwards. Frankly, I was scared to death of them and dreaded walking anywhere.

(This was just about five years after integration and racial tensions were pretty high during that time.)

Finally, I told my parents about it. My mother said, "Who's the ring leader?" I told her. She said, "Invite her to spend the weekend at our house."

WHAT!!! That was the LAST thing I wanted to do! But, I have to admit, the idea intrigued me, because I knew that at the least, the invitation would freak her out a little.

So I got up my nerve and passed her a note (remember, this was junior high). FREAK OUT - SHE ACCEPTED.

The halls were eerily quiet between Wednesday and Friday afternoon. That afternoon, my mom picked both of us up in front of the school. The girl had her little backpack with her, and off we went.

I'd love to say that we became the best of friends, but we didn't. However, we did spend an interesting weekend together doing some sort of art project with my mom, and then going to a couple of museums. We got along fine, and the bullying came to a complete, and immediate, stop.

I was suddenly considered to be very cool by this gang of girls.

I learned a lot of valuable lessons from my very wise mother thru that experience. Sounds like the girl in this OP needed a wiser mother.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I had a similar experience and my parents suggested a similar course of action; it didnt work. Had I not been so passive and had decked one of them, my life would have been a heck of a lot easier... the catholic school's anti-bullying policies didnt do squat.

 

[Kathryn]

My point is this - in this case, I would have some serious questions for those parents. They don't sound like the sharpest tools in the barn.

 

[JacobEzra.]

I had a similar experience and my parents suggested a similar course of action; it didnt work. Had I not been so passive and had decked one of them, my life would have been a heck of a lot easier... the catholic school's anti-bullying policies didnt do squat.

Well for men its different. Maybe for women, you can invite one another over and what not. But in my experience, you have to act tough, and seem tough to be not bullied.

I was never bullied, despite my rather short-ness compared to the rest.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

I was bullied until I grew about 7 inches in 5 months.... from reception to year ten inclusive... fun times.

I think it really depends on what is motivating the bullying kids in the first place as to what can make them stop, but for a kid to pick what is motivating their tormentors is a little difficult at times.

 

[Viker]

Yes! If only we beat students more, they'd stop acting so childish.

What these kids are doing is not "childish" it is sick. That is more cop out and let the sickos get away with what ever they want attitude. And for the record, I have not read a better idea yet.

 

[Viker]

The thing that makes me sick at my stomach about many people is not being able to distinguish between typical child behavior and dangerous sociopath behavior.

Most people's "best" solution is "ignore it" it "will just go away". It will only get worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

What these kids are doing is not "childish" it is sick. That is more cop out and let the sickos get away with what ever they want attitude. And for the record, I have not read a better idea yet.

Doing "sick" things is normal for children.
Beating them won't teach the empathy & ethics they need to learn.
Certainly, it's best to watch for such trouble & address it decisively.
I'd rather discuss it with kids. It works.
(Although I've never tried it with actual sociopaths.)

But if you still want to beat kids, I urge great caution if they're someone else's.
Some parents might not be so understanding towards you.

 

[Viker]

Doing "sick" things is normal for children.
Beating them won't teach the empathy & ethics they need to learn.
I'd rather explain to & talk with kids.
It works.
(Although I've never tried it with sociopaths.)

No it isn't normal. Sorry. What has been dome to the little girl is not "normal".

It's obvious sociopath behavior. It can only be reasoned with by instilling fear of real consequence for unacceptable behavior. They have already demonstrated no remorse. They are incapable of "empathy".

 

[Viker]

D
But if you still want to beat kids, I urge great caution if they're someone else's.
Some parents might not be so understanding towards you.

Who? The parent who is siding with the kids in question? She is unfit for parenthood any way. I do not consider her a mother or parent.

I'm not talking about me necessarily doing it. It was just my comment and letting off steam.

If this were my daughter.................the beatings would commence. No turning back either. I don't trust the system at all to do anything but aid in making things worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

No it isn't normal. Sorry. What has been dome to the little girl is not "normal".
It's obvious sociopath behavior. It can only be reasoned with by instilling fear of real consequence for unacceptable behavior. They have already demonstrated no remorse. They are incapable of "empathy".

Having been a kid once....long long ago, in a holler far far away....I saw that many kids were bullying, taunting, nasty, insensitive,
violent louts at times. Most of us outgrow it. I never saw that fear of beatings was the motivator. Often, just a watchful adult would
discuss it with the offender & the light bulb would switch on. Worked for me. I don't want to get too personal, but I'd recommend that
you give some thought to your fondness for beatings as a general solution.
Do you have kids? (Don't worry....no attack planned.)

 

[Viker]

Having been a kid once....long long ago, in a holler far far away....I saw that many kids were bullying, taunting, nasty, insensitive,
violent louts at times. Most of us outgrow it. I never saw that fear of beatings was the motivator. Often, just a watchful adult would
discuss it with the offender & the light bulb would switch on. Worked for me. I don't want to get too personal, but I'd recommend that
you give some thought to your fondness for beatings as a general solution.
Do you have kids? (Don't worry....no attack planned.)

I saw all that too. No one did anything about it. I knew a kid who hanged himself because of this nonsense. I feel remorse because I did nothing either but sit on it and later think. I do not view this degree of "bullying" as okay or a normal juvenile phase. It is no different than rape. Being a kid and calling others kids dummies every once in a again may be alright.

I don't have kids. This isn't the sole reason why I don't have any. But it is one.

 

[Vinayaka]

I taught ... for too long. Initially we used corporal punishment for such things. The overwhelming sense after awhile was simple: it didn't work. The bullies just got sneakier, and angrier. "Why can't I beat someone up if you're allowed to beat me up?" They saw through the double standard pretty quickly. Fights were moved off school grounds. Bullying was moved to the streets on the way home where no adults were around.

So, over time we educators had a better look at it. Firstly we implemented ant-bullying strategies in the schools. Classes slowly involved far more group work, less desks in lines, teacher as lecturer model. The role of teacher turned far more to a role of facilitator. Kids helped each other. We discussed things like how to get along. The curriculum changed to include stories about bullying, so it was a starting point fro discussion. We taught positive things like how to show appreciation, and how someone feels from that versus a degrading remark. We did role play exercises on this.

If serious stuff went on, dialogue was the first measure. Between kids, between adults and kids, with parents. We taught kids how to say they were hurt, or to stand up when they saw bullying, or bring adults into the scene.

Teachers were trained how to watch for signs of it, both in themselves, and in kids.

Discipline was dished out with in-school suspensions, (isolation from peers in the office somewhere) with work to do, elimination of recess, and specific exercises on bullying, long apology letters, and more. We brought in police officers trained in bullying and had them explain about harassment, and the laws in the adult world pertaining to it. (jail time, anyone?) It took more effort on everyone's part, but over the long haul things got better. The last 10 to 15 years I taught, I can't remember one schoolyard fight. Sure there was minor bullying, but something like in this thread would have never gone on, because we would have nipped it in the bud, so to speak.

 

[Revoltingest]

I saw all that too. No one did anything about it. I knew a kid who hanged himself because of this nonsense. I feel remorse because I did nothing either but sit on it and later think. I do not view this degree of "bullying" as okay or a normal juvenile phase.

I don't think it's OK either.
The issue is how to best address it.

I don't have kids.
This isn't the sole reason why I don't have any. But it is one.

OK....just curious.
I'd wager that you'd find them exasperating, but teachable by example & discussion.

 

[Viker]

I taught ... for too long. Initially we used corporal punishment for such things. The overwhelming sense after awhile was simple: it didn't work. The bullies just got sneakier, and angrier. "Why can't I beat someone up if you're allowed to beat me up?" They saw through the double standard pretty quickly. Fights were moved off school grounds. Bullying was moved to the streets on the way home where no adults were around.

So, over time we educators had a better look at it. Firstly we implemented ant-bullying strategies in the schools. Classes slowly involved far more group work, less desks in lines, teacher as lecturer model. The role of teacher turned far more to a role of facilitator. Kids helped each other. We discussed things like how to get along. The curriculum changed to include stories about bullying, so it was a starting point fro discussion. We taught positive things like how to show appreciation, and how someone feels from that versus a degrading remark. We did role play exercises on this.

If serious stuff went on, dialogue was the first measure. Between kids, between adults and kids, with parents. We taught kids how to say they were hurt, or to stand up when they saw bullying, or bring adults into the scene.

Teachers were trained how to watch for signs of it, both in themselves, and in kids.

Discipline was dished out with in-school suspensions, (isolation from peers in the office somewhere) with work to do, elimination of recess, and specific exercises on bullying, long apology letters, and more. We brought in police officers trained in bullying and had them explain about harassment, and the laws in the adult world pertaining to it. (jail time, anyone?) It took more effort on everyone's part, but over the long haul things got better. The last 10 to 15 years I taught, I can't remember one schoolyard fight. Sure there was minor bullying, but something like in this thread would have never gone on, because we would have nipped it in the bud, so to speak.

It's okay if we nip it in the bud, early on when they are very young. It's possible then.

But this is about something more sinister than typical childhood difference and development. Maybe these boys should be removed from school and their home? Any way we look at this, they should be taught there can be very negative unpleasant consequence for these actions in the real world.

I still see the severe cases of bullying as another form of rape, abuse, etc. even murder in the case another child takes their own life. And I also see adults not doing enough.

It should be a felony. Maybe this would keep me from popping one too many veins to my head and beating the crap out of a punk?