"Lock Him Up!"

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I'm not really sure how democrats think the Russians could "rig" an American election.

The same way that Americans or any other foreign power could rig American elections: Hack the electronic voting machines. It's demonstrably easy to do by anyone with the right skills, and would likely be done by anybody with the desire to see one candidate prevail over the other. The machines are hackable, and we know that the Russians would likely hack them if they could, so it's reasonable to consider that they did. What would stop them?

Watch: Hackers Demonstrate How to Crack Into Electronic Voting Machines in Minutes

Sounds more like a conspiracy theory to me.

It is a conspiracy theory - or more properly, a conspiracy hypothesis - and probably an accurate one. There is also statistical evidence that the voting machines were hacked: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin

Every crime or other unethical act ever committed by two or more people planning together in private is a conspiracy. If you rob a liquor store alone, it's not a conspiracy. If you talk somebody into assisting you, perhaps even just by waiting out in the parking lot with the car running, it's a conspiracy.

Remember the Hillside Strangler? Turned out to be a conspiracy. There were two of them working in tandem, Kenneth Bianchi and Angelo Buono. That's a conspiracy, and the prosecutor presented his conspiracy theory to a jury.

Conspiracy theory is a phrase used to demean an idea and its source. It implies that they are both lunatic fringe.

Note that there are two competing conspiracy theories regarding 9/11, but only one is called that - the one implicating American involvement. The official story is that Arabs conspired to commit acts of terrorism by themselves. That would also be a conspiracy, but not one considered crackpot.

 

[esmith]

Your 401k is doing great because of what Obama did for 8 yrs and because businesses have decided to ignore trump.
Don't forget it took bush jr. 7 years to blow up everyones 401k. Just because trump hasn't destroyed it yet doesn't mean he's not working on it. Give it time. 9 of the last 10 Republican presidents have left the country in a recession. Why do you think trump will be different than any of them?

If that is true, why did the stock market begin it's upward trend just after the results of the 2016 election?

 

[metis]

"The Republicans used to Not trust KGB guys like Putin..."
A friend of mine was reminding me:
- Putin was a KGB agent and George Bush senior was CIA director. Perhaps Republicans should not have
trusted Bush either? The old Soviet Union is long gone and so is the need to be apprehensive about it.

..." the latter, really has shown contempt for NATO and our election process."
- a very biased mass media repeating that Putin "interfered" with the election does not constitute "proof".
If the contempt has to do with Russian acquisition of Crimea, then if we take a look at
Russian history - Crimea was historically part of Russia until the Soviet Union gifted it to Ukraine.
A legal election resulted in the annexation of Crimea.
Promises were made to Mikhail Gorbachev that NATO would not expand into Eastern European countries.
But today, there are 12 more NATO countries bordering Russia and consequently Russia is ringed with nuclear missiles aimed at its cities. It appears that NATO is the contemptuous party here.

"Trumpettes seem very comfortable with the bromance between Trump and Putin,"
- Shouldn't an attempt to establish 'good relations with with another world power' constitute good foreign policy. The media has spun this as "bromance".

"I have repeatedly said here that we need to see how these investigations play out..."
- After 8 months in office, there is still NO evidence of "collusion" with Putin or Russia regarding the election.
This investigation has the appearance of an attempt to tie Trump's hands to prevent him from making good
on campaign promises.
More than likely Hillary's e-mail server fiasco and Wikileaks killed her chance at the presidency.

"I say this because over and over again we heard at rallies coming from Trump supporters and his campaigners "Lock her up!", and I didn't see any of you Trump supporters complain."
- A large portion of the public seems to feel this way about Hillary due to the corruption both she and her husband have been involved with. A list of peculiar "accidental deaths" and supposed suicides of their associates to include death wherein the victim supposedly shot himself in the back of the head.
Look up "Arkancide" and you will find a list of over 40 untimely deaths of people associated with the Clintons.
Then there are the financial scandals, etc.,etc.

-

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is also statistical evidence that the voting machines were hacked: Rigged election: Donald Trump won every surprise swing state by the same 1% margin

I wonder....
We see Donald Trump managing his presidency in such a feckless fashion. Leaks everywhere....a
revolving door of minions.....inattention to detail. This very same guy who coordinated untraceable
hacking of voting machines in multiple states & cities. I know, I know....I'm ignoring the evidence
again...but color me skeptical that he could pull it off without support of even his own party.

 

[metis]

If that is true, why did the stock market begin it's upward trend just after the results of the 2016 election?

The longest sustained growth in the stock market occurred during Obama's two terms, but did you and the other Pubs give him any credit for that whatsoever? Now that it goes up for six months under Trump, he's suddenly a miracle worker. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[metis]

The thing that gets me is that it was Americans themselves who - knowing the rules of the election game - put Trump into power. Russia had no control in the voting booth.

I'm curious about something: If you really want to believe that the Russians did it with "fake news," then what does this say about what democrats believe concerning the general intelligence of the American populace?

You're really conflating two things, with one being who won the election and the other being accusations of Russian meddling in our election, possibly with the Trump camp's collaboration with the Russians under Putin.

Trump won the election, no doubt, and even an absence of the Russian meddling may not have changed that outcome. But doesn't it concern you whatsoever that a foreign power known to have hostile intent towards us may have been working hand in hand with some in the Trump camp? Is that to be ignored while we go whistling through the tulips?

It's early in the investigations, so I've been reserving judgement, but let me just say that when Trump admitted twice that he fired Comey to stop the investigation, there's a "smoking gun" right there whether you want to admit that or not.
Have you ever asked yourself why Trump wants these investigations stopped? If I'm innocent, I want lots of information to come out to show that I'm innocent. But that's not what Trump & Co. are doing.

 

[Revoltingest]

The longest sustained growth in the stock market occurred during Obama's two terms, but did you and the other Pubs give him any credit for that whatsoever? Now that it goes up for six months under Trump, he's suddenly a miracle worker. Riiiiiiiiiiiight.

Too much significance is given to stock market prices, be it under Obama or Trump.
Stock prices aren't that closely related to economic health because they're largely
determined by interest rates, which are a competing investment. The lower the
interest rates, the lower the rate of return stock buyers find acceptable, thus leading
to increased stock value....or really, price. And short term fluctuations don't reflect the
whole market....just what a tiny percentage of traders are willing to buy & sell for.
Other investors might not share this valuation.

On top of all this, prices will also rise simply due to systematic currency devaluation
(aka inflation). When the fed expands the money supply faster than economic growth,
the dollar loses value, ie, it takes more dollars to buy something as time goes by. So
you think your house went up in value over the last few decades? Nah....the money
just went down, so you get more dollars when you sell, but you get no increase in value.

Why would the fed do this...continually & intentionally lowering the dollar's value?
Because they can tax us on capital gains (some exclusions apply)....despite the fact
that there's often no economic gain...just more dollars required to represent the old value.

 

[metis]

LOL, A bromance with a foreign adversary is not treason. Emails...mishandling emails is where I heard a lot of those folks yelling treason.

But a bromance that might involve collusion with an adversarial power might just be a tad serious, doncha think?

Hillary was investigated by Comey, a Republican, and he decided that even though she made some bad "judgments", it didn't warrant prosecution on criminal charges.

See the difference?

BTW, just to be clear, I criticized Hillary many times here at RF dealing with her server issues and also her flawed campaign. Nor did I vote for her in the primary.

 

[metis]

Meanwhile, my 401k is doing great!

Then let me suggest that you go up to Obama and give him a really big kiss, and can I recommend where that kiss should be planted?

[if one remembers correctly, 401-K's and a lot of other investment accounts took one helluva noser that started during the Bush administration, but it didn't take long for Obama & Co. to make some changes that let to the longest sustained market growth in American history while the Republicans under McConnell tried to block just about every thing that the Obama administration tried]

 

[The magical volleyball]

If that is true, why did the stock market begin it's upward trend just after the results of the 2016 election?

Please provide evidence of the downward trend it was on before trump?

 

[The magical volleyball]

Too much significance is given to stock market prices, be it under Obama or Trump.
Stock prices aren't that closely related to economic health because they're largely
determined by interest rates, which are a competing investments. The lower the
interest rates, the lower the rate of return stock buyers find acceptable, thus leading
to increased stock value....or really, price. And short term fluctuations don't reflect the
whole market....just what a tiny percentage of traders are willing to buy & sell for.
Other investors might not share this valuation.

On top of all this, prices will also rise simply due to systematic currency devaluation
(aka inflation). When the fed expands the money supply faster than economic growth,
the dollar loses value, ie, it takes more dollars to buy something as time goes by. So
you think your house went up in value over the last few decades? Nah....the money
just went down, so you get more dollars when you sell, but you get no increase in value.

Why would the fed do this...continually & intentionally lowering the dollar's value?
Because they can tax us on capital gains (some exclusions apply)....despite the fact
that there's often no economic gain...just more dollars required to represent the old value.

Your right which is why when judging how successful a President has been you should look at more than just the Dow.

 

[idav]

But a bromance that might involve collusion with an adversarial power might just be a tad serious, doncha think?

Hillary was investigated by Comey, a Republican, and he decided that even though she made some bad "judgments", it didn't warrant prosecution on criminal charges.

See the difference?

BTW, just to be clear, I criticized Hillary many times here at RF dealing with her server issues and also her flawed campaign. Nor did I vote for her in the primary.

Thing with the emails is we knew a private server existed, with the Russian thing its full denial and you almost have to catch them red handed on something. Some people act like Trump could slap Putin in the behind and it would be no big deal, obviously cause thats not collusion.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I found the post thoughtful, guess others see conflict where they want to.

Personally, I agree with Jay.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some people act like Trump could slap Putin in the behind and it would be no big deal......

What an odd scenario....should it be a big deal?

 

[idav]

What an odd scenario....should it be a big deal?

You know he can only slap allies in the behind, we aren't savages.

 

[Quetzal]

Personally, I agree with Jay.

Okie day.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Okie day.

 

[Quetzal]

I mean, if you wanna pick a fight, you gotta do a better job than that!

 

[idav]

If that is true, why did the stock market begin it's upward trend just after the results of the 2016 election?

Very strong optimism, we can only hope its well founded,

 

[Jeremiahcp]

I mean, if you wanna pick a fight, you gotta do a better job than that!

I think we both know that if I wanted to "pick a fight" I can do a better job.