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Logical deduction (religion, the PoE)

Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
1213 said:
No, I think children should be allowed to be in a kitchen.
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Always? Even if they insist on doing something dangerous? If you had to pick between sending them somewhere else or letting them touch the hot stove you would choose the latter?
 
ratiocinator

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
dybmh said:
It does. And it is. God cannot make perfection from perfection. There is nothing being created, it is just like infinity+infinity. All that results is infinity which is eclipsed and subsumed into itself. "OTHER" is necessary. Without it, nothing is created. Anything that is created immediately reassimilates back into the source.
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Still makes absolutely no sense at all. Another example: fully human parents produce fully human children.

You seem to just be playing with deepies. You haven't actually produced any logic. God (we are told) is a real, existing being, not a transfinite number, and humans (even theoretical perfect ones) aren't either.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Koldo said:
Always?
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Not, if birthday cake is being decorated for them as a surprise. :D
Koldo said:
Even if they insist on doing something dangerous? If you had to pick between sending them somewhere else or letting them touch the hot stove you would choose the latter?
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I think freedom is more valuable than "security". That is why I would only tell them and explain why. If they after that want to learn the hard way, I think they have right for that.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
1213 said:
Not, if birthday cake is being decorated for them as a surprise. :D

I think freedom is more valuable than "security". That is why I would only tell them and explain why. If they after that want to learn the hard way, I think they have right for that.
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And if they are too young to understand...?
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
ratiocinator said:
Still makes absolutely no sense at all. Another example: fully human parents produce fully human children.
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A material example doesn't work because in the beginning there are no material objects.

ratiocinator said:
You seem to just be playing with deepies. You haven't actually produced any logic. God (we are told) is a real, existing being, not a transfinite number, and humans (even theoretical perfect ones) aren't either.
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I am talking about a God concept which is infinite in a domain where there is only God and nothing else.

That's all. There are two words here which I think you understand. infinite and only. That's all that's needed.

Are you refusing to consider this god concept? If so, why?
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Honest answer: unknown.



In the here and now? Also unknown. I think eliminating all of it results in a world that most people would not like.
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If it's unknown that God even intervenes how do you know then that "God has unlimited options to intervene and reduce evil"? The omnipotence is questionable.

Most people also wouldn't like a world with no hospitals, police, fire department, courts and so on. So it's not completely unknown how much evil is necessary.
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
PearlSeeker said:
If it's unknown that God even intervenes how do you know then that "God has unlimited options to intervene and reduce evil"? The omnipotence is questionable.
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If the question is, how can a tri-omni god permit suffering? Then omnipotence ( unlimited options to intervene ) is part of the premise. It's not something I can prove. It's part of the god concept which is being considered.

PearlSeeker said:
Most people also wouldn't like a world with no hospitals, police, fire department, courts and so on. So it's not completely unknown how much evil is necessary.
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I'm not following. I'm sorry. Hospitals, police, fire departments, courts, don't prevent evil. They react to evil.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
He is good at hiding, but once in every age He manifests Himself through His Messengers.
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Yes, only for those who believe this is true because your messenger said so.

And God manifested himself as a burning bush, pillar of light, voice from above, miracles, killings... only for those who believe this is true because the Bible says so.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
PearlSeeker said:
Yes, only for those who believe this is true because your messenger said so.

And God manifested himself as a burning bush, pillar of light, voice from above, miracles, killings... only for those who believe this is true because the Bible says so.
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No, God manifests Himself for everyone, not only for those who believe it is true.
 
PearlSeeker

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
No, God manifests Himself for everyone, not only for those who believe it is true.
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I meant it's true only for those who believe it. And there are also others who believe differently and for them something other is true.

I have to translate my thoughts to English. I don't know if I'm correctly using the word "for"...
 
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