Logically, agnosticism is the most rational position

[loverofhumanity]

Every species is unique. Butterflies are unique, too. If they weren't, we might confuse them with elephants. But we do not, for elephants are unique too.



Like elephants. I am not aware of other instances of elephants in all existence. For what we know.



Oh, well, if Scriptures confirm that, who am I to challenge it? But again, most species, if not all, are one of a kind. I think this kind thing is also biblical. So, it is still not clear what He meant. If He meant the look, then he made gorillas in His image too, by transitivity.



You are welcome. I have no idea...

Ciao

- viole

You make good points and have a keen intellect.

 

[viole]

You make good points and have a keen intellect.

Thanks. Probably because I am in His image

Ciao

- viole

 

[Acim]

How about statistics? Growing up in an abusive, low income family is more likely to make you a criminal. It doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a criminal, you could "choose" to be better, but its guaranteed that a large percentage of those kids that were raised under those conditions will be significantly influenced. Its necessarily true.

I disagree that it's guaranteed and that it's necessarily true (that they'll be significantly influenced in the way you are implying). Helps me that you convey "it doesn't necessarily mean..."

Statistics offer a probability factor, not a necessitation.

So people follow probabilities and data averages, which doesn't reflect free will.

Once again, I'm pretty sure you're referencing free choice rather than free will, and will continue as if you are.

It reflects more that our brains run a kind of algorithm that often leads to deterministic behavior on average in large data sets. This shows that free will is a fuzzy and nebulous concept since we are always influenced by our genes, the environment, how we were raised, our mental state and brain chemistry, etc. Once you have a huge number of influences that are affecting you, in what sense can you have a fully free choice?

I don't believe you can, not with choice. All of what you are conveying informs me that you didn't actually understand the point I was making. I'll state that again: I'm yet to find example of anything that counters our inherent freedom that actually exists.

I see the choices we make, and the way we routinely frame them, as illusionary. That it's really not a matter of choice, but of justifying (to own self) justification for the fundamental faith we have in own existence. One existence is real (eternal), the other is unreal (temporal).

I mean if someone's body is producing too much adrenaline, then their free choice is affected similarly if the CIA gives drugs to remove restraint and choice from people they're interrogating. Chemistry and other factors have a powerful influence on what choices you make, and may even determine most decisions that most people make. Free will has never been proven either--there's no way to know if we have actual free will or whether our brains just run complicated algorithms that incorporate some pseudo randomness.

I understand, based on reason, that the physical, particularly own physical self/body is unreal. Dealing with parameters of (so called) free choice is taking a rather irrational position to the fundamental faith argument.