Looking for a Source about Ein Kelokeinu

[RabbiO]

I'm a SIEM engineer and I teach a course in Cybersecurity.

I am old. I had never heard of your profession and I had to look it up. I’m impressed, but not surprised.

 

[RabbiO]

I studied Talmud for 7 years, so I know a lot about Halacha. If you studied physics or chemistry beyond the high school level we could relate better. I think.

Aryeh Kaplan, z”l, was both an Orthodox rabbi and a physicist. I have a hunch, just a hunch, that you and he would not have related any better than you and @rosends relate to one another.

 

[Jake1001]

Aryeh Kaplan, z”l, was both an Orthodox rabbi and a physicist. I have a hunch, just a hunch, that you and he would not have related any better than you and @rosends relate to one another.

I know, big R. If you study the top physicists you will find they are all atheists. Einstein is attributed with an interesting quote: “G-d does not play dice”. Discuss !

 

[Rival]

I know, big R. If you study the top physicists you will find they are all atheists. Einstein is attributed with an interesting quote: “G-d does not play dice”. Debate !

Are you aware that there is no debating allowed in this sub?

 

[Jake1001]

The problem I have with your approach is that you make a lot of assumptions about me instead of actually looking at what I write, and you feel the need to label people and situations. If you studied reading comprehension beyond the elementary school level, we could relate better.

Hi RR, I hope you are having a nice day! I will remind you hurling insults is not fitting an Ordained OJ Rabbi. I make no assumptions about you and assume you are a zeis Rabbi.
I am just pointing out that your knowledge database is limited by the sources you use. If you are relying on Torah, Talmud and their analysis, it is too limited. Do you study systems biology ? This will help your understanding of evolution.

 

[RabbiO]

Are you aware that there is no debating allowed in this sub?

You can only have a debate if there is more than one participant.

 

[Jake1001]

Are you aware that there is no debating allowed in this sub?

I know, big R. If you study the top physicists you will find they are all atheists. Einstein is attributed with an interesting quote: “G-d does not play dice”. Debate !

Are you aware that there is no debating allowed in this sub?

Thank you, Rival, I suppose I should have said Discuss !

 

[rosends]

Hi RR, I hope you are having a nice day! I will remind you hurling insults is not fitting an Ordained OJ Rabbi. I make no assumptions about you and assume you are a zeis Rabbi.
I am just pointing out that your knowledge database is limited by the sources you use. If you are relying on Torah, Talmud and their analysis, it is too limited. Do you study systems biology ? This will help your understanding of evolution.

Hurling insults? I simply mirrored the claims in your message. What's good for the goose etc.
Your knowledge base is likewise limited by the sources you use and yours are too limited. Since our discussion was about the halachic implications of typing a word referring to God in an electronic forum, systems biology is not really relevant. I don't know why you presume my knowledge of or opinion on evolution (this is one of those assumptions that, yes, you do make).

 

[Jake1001]

Hurling insults? I simply mirrored the claims in your message. What's good for the goose etc.
Your knowledge base is likewise limited by the sources you use and yours are too limited. Since our discussion was about the halachic implications of typing a word referring to God in an electronic forum, systems biology is not really relevant. I don't know why you presume my knowledge of or opinion on evolution (this is one of those assumptions that, yes, you do make).

Systems Bio was just an example. You might want to keep the discussion to Halacha, but to me its much bigger. What are your thoughts about the Computer Simulation theory? G-d might in fact be a computer simulator. Are you and Big R prepared to deal with that ?

 

[RabbiO]

Systems Bio was just an example. You might want to keep the discussion to Halacha, but to me its much bigger. What are your thoughts about the Computer Simulation theory? G-d might in fact be a computer simulator. Are you and Big R prepared to deal with that ?

I’ve got inquiries in to Bruce Boxleitner, Jeff Bridges, Carrie Moss, Keanu Reeves and Lawrence Fishburne. I’ll be ready.

 

[Jake1001]

I’ve got inquiries in to Bruce Boxleitner, Jeff Bridges, Carrie Moss, Keanu Reeves and Lawrence Fishburne. I’ll be ready.

More than the Matrix big R. Who is the creator of Comp Sim Theory ? Have you heard of Nick Bostrom ?

 

[RabbiO]

More than the Matrix big R. Who is the creator of Comp Sim Theory ? Have you heard of Nick Bostrom ?

The Swedish guy?

 

[Jake1001]

The Swedish guy?

Are you a scientist or engineer big R ?

 

[dantech]

so which is the ikar? Is ketoret added because it is a logical extension of E"K or is E"K added because it is a nice lead in to ketoret? Could we say one without the other, and if so, which? Chicken and egg?

Don't ask for sources, I don't have any... I heard this in a shiur.

The Rav said that Moshe met all the Malachim, including the Satan. And they each gave him a gift. Satan's gift was the ketoret as a protection and a way to turn bad things into good things.

However, in my shul, we don't say the ketoret on Shabbat and the Rav's explanation was that on Shabbat we already are protected and don't need to recite it. We do however recite EK which means one doesn't need the other?

 

[rosends]

This just dawned on me - if there is a concern about saying ketoret improperly because of the workday rush, then why is it still included in the Korbanot section early in the daily davening? And why there, is E"K not included?

 

[Tumah]

This just dawned on me - if there is a concern about saying ketoret improperly because of the workday rush, then why is it still included in the Korbanot section early in the daily davening?

I would guess that they're two separate developments.The korbanos doesn't seem like a main part of davening. You know how they say that for Sephardim, davening starts with korbanos; for chassidim it starts with Hodu; and for Litvaks it starts with Boruch She'amar.

And why there, is E"K not included?

Do you have any reason they should always be together?

 

[Harel13]

The korbanos doesn't seem like a main part of davening

Not a main part of davening? Gevald!
It's true that a lot of Ashkenazim don't say korbanot, but that's not considered an entirely okay thing (though I don't have sources at the moment )...after all, תפילות כנגד קרבנות תקנום. There's a heter that's become wide-spread and while they aren't at the level of the main part of the prayer, the amidah, they're still important.

 

[rosends]

I would guess that they're two separate developments.The korbanos doesn't seem like a main part of davening. You know how they say that for Sephardim, davening starts with korbanos; for chassidim it starts with Hodu; and for Litvaks it starts with Boruch She'amar.

I'm not sure what a "main part" would be. Early on, or almost very last thing? Is either a main part? BUt regardless, the concern about not having the right kavannah should apply to what is being said, not just incidentally when it is included.

Do you have any reason they should always be together?

I'm trying to find discussion of them said separately, but the sources that I referenced all seem to tie them together.