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Looking for arguments for the existence of God

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
Hi I am looking for rational intellectual arguments for the existence of God, and why a particular religion is true.

Whatever science says to prove the existence of atoms, the coup-de-grace that it offers is for us to peer down a microscope and see for ourselves. Likewise, whatever proof or evidence is given for God's existence, unless we are able to bring 'Him' into the ken of our 5 senses, particularly the sense of sight, that is, unless we are able to point out and say, "Look, there's God", we will never be able to prove the existence of God to all and sundry. Some say, like the microscope invented to extend our sense of sight, we have it within us to extend the capacity of our physical senses through 'yogic' practices and we shall then clearly 'see' God. Till then we have to make do with the testimony of those who have had the benefit of yogic discipline or the scientist who had peered through the microscope.

About religion, it is not necessary that it posits God. Buddhism, for example, does not require a God to function.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
About religion, it is not necessary that it posits God. Buddhism, for example, does not require a God to function.
Not to forget nimrod's like me who are patiently telling people to go beyond "god" and their relatively meaningless preconceptions about what "reality" is.
 

McBell

Unbound
That is what you said last post, which is what I was confused about... so what is it that you think science tends to avoid?
The God issue, I suppose.
I don't know really.
But I have heard many many many many many many times in many different forums that science has no interest in disproving God.

My thought is that unless something significant comes up, there is no need waste time on something that cannot be proven or dis-proven.
 

Rioku

Wanabe *********
The God issue, I suppose.
I don't know really.
But I have heard many many many many many many times in many different forums that science has no interest in disproving God.

My thought is that unless something significant comes up, there is no need waste time on something that cannot be proven or dis-proven.

Well the best I can do for you is tell you that there is no way to disprove God.

More or less science takes the stance that anything that is no falsifiable is a weak argument and should be altered so that it is falsifiable. Basically, something has to be falsifiable for it to be proven true. Here is another thread I started that talks about it more.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...3-you-can-not-prove-god-does.html#post1008965
 

logician

Well-Known Member
Before positing arguments for the existence of some god, you need a clear definition of what that god concept is.

Not an easy task.
 

JamBar85

Master Designer
I said in another thread that people are free to believe in whatever they want, and i'll say it here aswell.

I personally can never believe that an almighty being made everything from nothing. To me that just sounds like something has been made up to fill the gap of something that cannot be explained by humans.
"How did that happen? Don't know, God did it."

I often hear people say that evolution is based on something coming from nothing. No it isn't. A lot of religious people claim that their religion is 100% accurate. Evolution doesn't. It's a theory.

I think a lot of people are religious because turning to a God or a religion can help them if they are having problems in thier lives or need to turn to something for inspiration or hope. It have a dramatic effect on there lives in a possitive way. I don't think a lot of religious people look as in depth as a God or being creating everything. A lot of religious people are very much in favour aren't they?

I cannot stress enough though that I have no problems with anyone beliving in what they want. I think if it has a positive effect on a person and makes them happy, then good stuff.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Basically, something has to be falsifiable for it to be proven true.
That is a distortion (or, perhaps, abortion) of Popper.
Popper rejected the most characteristic doctrine of empiricism, in arguing (following Kant) that all descriptions of experiences involve selection and interpretation in terms of some prior conceptual framework, or theory. The model of scientific advance as an inductive process of generalization from particular experiences must therefore be rejected. Popper's alternative model is eloquently captured in the title of one of his books–Conjectures and Refutations (1963). Scientific theories are invented, by a process which cannot be captured by any logical scheme. Once invented, their scientific status is established by their fruitfulness in allowing the deduction of hypotheses which are ‘empirically contentful’. By this, Popper means that they should be highly improbable (in the sense that they rule out as impossible many happenings which might otherwise seem possible), and at the same time be clear and unambiguous in specifying what they rule out. In Popper's version, the empirical testing of a theory is not a matter of finding evidence to support or confirm it, but rather a matter of systematically attempting to show it to be false–a logic of refutation or falsification. In this way Popper avoids the problem of induction which had bedevilled the attempt to justify science in terms of the idea of empirical verification. Popper's position is based on recognition of a very simple asymmetry between the logic of verification and that of falsification in relation to the law-like generalizations of science: universal claims always go beyond what is strictly justified by the (finite) body of evidence for them, but may be decisively refuted by a single counter-instance.

But the situation is more complex than this. Most especially, although the logic of falsification may be simple, its methodology is not. An observation which appears to challenge an established theory may itself be challenged as fraudulent, methodologically suspect, and so on, and will always leave advocates of the theory a range of choices to modify their theory, short of wholesale abandonment. Popper is fully aware of this, and is inclined to present falsificationism as a normative injunction, rather than as a description of the actual practice of scientists. Nevertheless, choice between rival theories is never an arbitrary matter. Although
all scientific knowledge must be considered provisional (there is no conclusive proof or disproof),​
scientists properly prefer, among rival theories which are so far unfalsified and account for the known facts, that theory which has most empirical content.

[falsification - reformatted for emphasis]
 

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
Looking for arguments for the existence of God

Silly person. To look for God on purely rational grounds is irrational, for to isolate the rational side of life and call it the measure of “reality” is to deny truth and fragment reality.
 

Rioku

Wanabe *********
Looking for arguments for the existence of God

Silly person. To look for God on purely rational grounds is irrational, for to isolate the rational side of life and call it the measure of “reality” is to deny truth and fragment reality.

Silly person. To look for God on purely irrational grounds is irrational. :yes:
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
I am an atheist. I am having bigger and bigger problems with understanding how anyone intelligent and educated can believe in for example (taking mainstream Christianity) a supernatural superpowerful entity simultaneously monitoring over 6 billion people's actions and thoughts, caring what these 6,6 billion people do and think, and compare it to his own 10 moral commandements. How do you arrive at the conclusion that this is the most plausible explanation for everything around you?

I am not trying to insult anyone, the point is that I seriously don't understand what arguments convinced religious intellectuals to believe in one of the organized religions. :)
Probaly because believing in God takes more intellegence that you give people credit for. Some of the most highly intellegent people I know are believers. Studying scripture is very rewarding when looked at intellegently and can keep one busy their whole lives discovering increasingly deeper meanings.
 

Rioku

Wanabe *********
Studying scripture is very rewarding when looked at intellegently and can keep one busy their whole lives discovering increasingly deeper meanings.

Studying one book for an entire life is a waist, when there is no evidence that is it nothing more then a collection of stories. One could study a child's book for their entire life and continue to find "deeper meaning" as long as they have the desire to find it they will.
 

astarath

Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope that no Christian will actually come provoked by such an obvious attempt at creating an argument rather than a discussion. Peace to all you atheists and christians in this thread my prayers are with you.
 

jbird

New Member
The Holy Bible is proof of the existence of God. Read the book of Romans. There you will find proof that Romans was not written by the minds of men but by the divine inspiration of God. Like all religions one must have faith. As a Christian are job is to go and preach to all nations. I can say homosexuality is wrong, I can say a lot of things are wrong according to the inspired word of God. No one is going to believe me unless the Holy Spirit breaks their heart and shows them why Jesus died for His people. There are those people who were Christians and have become athiests. Maybe they were never saved in the first place. You can't just be a hearer of the word, you have to be a doer as well.
 

McBell

Unbound
The Holy Bible is proof of the existence of God. Read the book of Romans. There you will find proof that Romans was not written by the minds of men but by the divine inspiration of God. Like all religions one must have faith. As a Christian are job is to go and preach to all nations. I can say homosexuality is wrong, I can say a lot of things are wrong according to the inspired word of God. No one is going to believe me unless the Holy Spirit breaks their heart and shows them why Jesus died for His people. There are those people who were Christians and have become athiests. Maybe they were never saved in the first place. You can't just be a hearer of the word, you have to be a doer as well.
If the proof you go on about in the first three sentences actually did exist, your talk of needing faith in the fourth sentence is rather redundant.

Feeling a bit Scottish are we?
 
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