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Looking for evidence linking Iraq to Al-Qaeda/911/WMDs.
- Thread starter Aquitaine
- Start date
Daemon Sophic
Avatar in flux
@ Dust1n -- Thank you for doing some digging.
Your posts indicate that there is an increase in recorded poppy seed production while (largely) under U.S. control, or at least while in conflict. The CIA has admitted to not being able (or at least willing) to divert resources to fighting the opiate trade while fighting over Afghan territories.
However; this does not qualify as proof for crazyKiwi's claim that "CIA make big money from drug imports."
Poor farmers in a war-torn land will produce whatever sells well and makes them money to feed their families and/or keep the local warlords from burning them out. If during war, there is a vacuum of law enforcement, then drug crops are a very profitable, and logical plant to grow.
Not many CIA operatives or bigwigs in Washington DC are rollin' in pimped out hummers with gold spinners and low-rider lighting. :sarcastic Nor are they buying vast retirement plantations in South America.
They are simply NOT doing anything to stop the poppy farming.
dust1n
Zindīq
@ Dust1n -- Thank you for doing some digging.
Your posts indicate that there is an increase in recorded poppy seed production while (largely) under U.S. control, or at least while in conflict. The CIA has admitted to not being able (or at least willing) to divert resources to fighting the opiate trade while fighting over Afghan territories.
However; this does not qualify as proof for crazyKiwi's claim that "CIA make big money from drug imports."
Poor farmers in a war-torn land will produce whatever sells well and makes them money to feed their families and/or keep the local warlords from burning them out. If during war, there is a vacuum of law enforcement, then drug crops are a very profitable, and logical plant to grow.
Not many CIA operatives or bigwigs in Washington DC are rollin' in pimped out hummers with gold spinners and low-rider lighting. :sarcastic Nor are they buying vast retirement plantations in South America.
They are simply NOT doing anything to stop the poppy farming.
Very true. I was just adding perspective. Whether the CIA makes money on the drug trade or not, we'll never really be able to verify. We can be sure of other things:
Wiki:
"American CIA agents were helping smuggle opium out of Afghanistan, into the West, in order to raise money for the Afghan resistance.
The CIA supported various Afghan drug lords, for instance Gulbuddin Hekmatyar .[6] In particular, historian Alfred W. McCoy stated that:[7]
"In most cases, the CIA's role involved various forms of complicity, tolerance or studied ignorance about the trade, not any direct culpability in the actual trafficking ... [t]he CIA did not handle heroin, but it did provide its drug-lord allies with transport, arms, and political protection. In sum, the CIA's role in the Southeast Asian heroin trade involved indirect complicity rather than direct culpability."
But if you consider that fact that drugs were smuggled into American to fund Afghan resistance, and the Afghan resistance purchased the majority of their weapons from American's, than drug money was indirectly given to Western arms manufacturers.
dust1n
Zindīq
More intersting information from the NY Times:
"
KABUL, Afghanistan — Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country’s booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials.
Ahmed Wali Karzai, right, the brother of President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, at a campaign event in Kandahar in August.
The agency pays Mr. Karzai for a variety of services, including helping to recruit an Afghan paramilitary force that operates at the C.I.A.’s direction in and around the southern city of Kandahar, Mr. Karzai’s home.
The financial ties and close working relationship between the intelligence agency and Mr. Karzai raise significant questions about America’s war strategy, which is currently under review at the White House.
The ties to Mr. Karzai have created deep divisions within the Obama administration. The critics say the ties complicate America’s increasingly tense relationship with President Hamid Karzai, who has struggled to build sustained popularity among Afghans and has long been portrayed by the Taliban as an American puppet. The C.I.A.’s practices also suggest that the United States is not doing everything in its power to stamp out the lucrative Afghan drug trade, a major source of revenue for the Taliban.
More broadly, some American officials argue that the reliance on Ahmed Wali Karzai, the most powerful figure in a large area of southern Afghanistan where the Taliban insurgency is strongest, undermines the American push to develop an effective central government that can maintain law and order and eventually allow the United States to withdraw.
“If we are going to conduct a population-centric strategy in Afghanistan, and we are perceived as backing thugs, then we are just undermining ourselves,” said Maj. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the senior American military intelligence official in Afghanistan.
Ahmed Wali Karzai said in an interview that he cooperated with American civilian and military officials, but did not engage in the drug trade and did not receive payments from the C.I.A.
The relationship between Mr. Karzai and the C.I.A. is wide ranging, several American officials said. He helps the C.I.A. operate a paramilitary group, the Kandahar Strike Force, that is used for raids against suspected insurgents and terrorists. On at least one occasion, the strike force has been accused of mounting an unauthorized operation against an official of the Afghan government, the officials said.
Mr. Karzai is also paid for allowing the C.I.A. and American Special Operations troops to rent a large compound outside the city — the former home of Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban’s founder. The same compound is also the base of the Kandahar Strike Force. “He’s our landlord,” a senior American official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
Mr. Karzai also helps the C.I.A. communicate with and sometimes meet with Afghans loyal to the Taliban. Mr. Karzai’s role as a go-between between the Americans and the Taliban is now regarded as valuable by those who support working with Mr. Karzai, as the Obama administration is placing a greater focus on encouraging Taliban leaders to change sides"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28intel.html?_r=2
"
KABUL, Afghanistan — Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country’s booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials.
Ahmed Wali Karzai, right, the brother of President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, at a campaign event in Kandahar in August.
The agency pays Mr. Karzai for a variety of services, including helping to recruit an Afghan paramilitary force that operates at the C.I.A.’s direction in and around the southern city of Kandahar, Mr. Karzai’s home.
The financial ties and close working relationship between the intelligence agency and Mr. Karzai raise significant questions about America’s war strategy, which is currently under review at the White House.
The ties to Mr. Karzai have created deep divisions within the Obama administration. The critics say the ties complicate America’s increasingly tense relationship with President Hamid Karzai, who has struggled to build sustained popularity among Afghans and has long been portrayed by the Taliban as an American puppet. The C.I.A.’s practices also suggest that the United States is not doing everything in its power to stamp out the lucrative Afghan drug trade, a major source of revenue for the Taliban.
More broadly, some American officials argue that the reliance on Ahmed Wali Karzai, the most powerful figure in a large area of southern Afghanistan where the Taliban insurgency is strongest, undermines the American push to develop an effective central government that can maintain law and order and eventually allow the United States to withdraw.
“If we are going to conduct a population-centric strategy in Afghanistan, and we are perceived as backing thugs, then we are just undermining ourselves,” said Maj. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the senior American military intelligence official in Afghanistan.
Ahmed Wali Karzai said in an interview that he cooperated with American civilian and military officials, but did not engage in the drug trade and did not receive payments from the C.I.A.
The relationship between Mr. Karzai and the C.I.A. is wide ranging, several American officials said. He helps the C.I.A. operate a paramilitary group, the Kandahar Strike Force, that is used for raids against suspected insurgents and terrorists. On at least one occasion, the strike force has been accused of mounting an unauthorized operation against an official of the Afghan government, the officials said.
Mr. Karzai is also paid for allowing the C.I.A. and American Special Operations troops to rent a large compound outside the city — the former home of Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban’s founder. The same compound is also the base of the Kandahar Strike Force. “He’s our landlord,” a senior American official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
Mr. Karzai also helps the C.I.A. communicate with and sometimes meet with Afghans loyal to the Taliban. Mr. Karzai’s role as a go-between between the Americans and the Taliban is now regarded as valuable by those who support working with Mr. Karzai, as the Obama administration is placing a greater focus on encouraging Taliban leaders to change sides"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28intel.html?_r=2
kai
ragamuffin
2 September 2009 - Opium poppy cultivation in Afghanistan is down 22 per cent, opium production is down 10 per cent, while prices are at a 10-year low. The number of opium poppy-free provinces has increased from 18 to 20 out of a total number of 34, and more drugs are being seized as a result of more robust counter-narcotics operations by Afghan and NATO forces.
These are the findings contained in the summary findings of the Afghan Opium Survey 2009, released in Kabul today by UNODC Executive Director Antonio Maria Costa. This annual survey covers the planting cycle from May 2008 to June 2009.
Afghan opium production in significant decline
These are the findings contained in the summary findings of the Afghan Opium Survey 2009, released in Kabul today by UNODC Executive Director Antonio Maria Costa. This annual survey covers the planting cycle from May 2008 to June 2009.
Afghan opium production in significant decline
kai
ragamuffin
That change has been happening for slowly for quite a while, province by province, it may sound easy to eradicate opium growing on paper but its not.
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
"
KABUL, Afghanistan Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the countrys booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials.
Ahmed Wali Karzai, right, the brother of President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, at a campaign event in Kandahar in August.
The agency pays Mr. Karzai for a variety of services, including helping to recruit an Afghan paramilitary force that operates at the C.I.A.s direction in and around the southern city of Kandahar, Mr. Karzais home.
The financial ties and close working relationship between the intelligence agency and Mr. Karzai raise significant questions about Americas war strategy, which is currently under review at the White House.
The ties to Mr. Karzai have created deep divisions within the Obama administration. The critics say the ties complicate Americas increasingly tense relationship with President Hamid Karzai, who has struggled to build sustained popularity among Afghans and has long been portrayed by the Taliban as an American puppet. The C.I.A.s practices also suggest that the United States is not doing everything in its power to stamp out the lucrative Afghan drug trade, a major source of revenue for the Taliban.
More broadly, some American officials argue that the reliance on Ahmed Wali Karzai, the most powerful figure in a large area of southern Afghanistan where the Taliban insurgency is strongest, undermines the American push to develop an effective central government that can maintain law and order and eventually allow the United States to withdraw.
If we are going to conduct a population-centric strategy in Afghanistan, and we are perceived as backing thugs, then we are just undermining ourselves, said Maj. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, the senior American military intelligence official in Afghanistan.
Ahmed Wali Karzai said in an interview that he cooperated with American civilian and military officials, but did not engage in the drug trade and did not receive payments from the C.I.A.
The relationship between Mr. Karzai and the C.I.A. is wide ranging, several American officials said. He helps the C.I.A. operate a paramilitary group, the Kandahar Strike Force, that is used for raids against suspected insurgents and terrorists. On at least one occasion, the strike force has been accused of mounting an unauthorized operation against an official of the Afghan government, the officials said.
Mr. Karzai is also paid for allowing the C.I.A. and American Special Operations troops to rent a large compound outside the city the former home of Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Talibans founder. The same compound is also the base of the Kandahar Strike Force. Hes our landlord, a senior American official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity.
Mr. Karzai also helps the C.I.A. communicate with and sometimes meet with Afghans loyal to the Taliban. Mr. Karzais role as a go-between between the Americans and the Taliban is now regarded as valuable by those who support working with Mr. Karzai, as the Obama administration is placing a greater focus on encouraging Taliban leaders to change sides"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/world/asia/28intel.html?_r=2
Interesting. Didn't Hamid Karzai formerly work at UNOCAL before? I haven't been able to verify that just yet though.
kai
ragamuffin
so what ? you endorse their methods? .
Smoke
Done here.
The CIA has a long history of involvement with drug trafficking; it was particularly active in this field under Reagan and G.H.W. Bush, including opium/heroin production in Afghanistan.The CIA has admitted to not being able (or at least willing) to divert resources to fighting the opiate trade while fighting over Afghan territories.
However; this does not qualify as proof for crazyKiwi's claim that "CIA make big money from drug imports."
Poor farmers in a war-torn land will produce whatever sells well and makes them money to feed their families and/or keep the local warlords from burning them out. If during war, there is a vacuum of law enforcement, then drug crops are a very profitable, and logical plant to grow.
Not many CIA operatives or bigwigs in Washington DC are rollin' in pimped out hummers with gold spinners and low-rider lighting. :sarcastic Nor are they buying vast retirement plantations in South America.
They are simply NOT doing anything to stop the poppy farming.
I don't know what the agency is doing in Afghanistan now, but news that it was involved in the drug trade wouldn't exactly be a big surprise.
kai
ragamuffin
well it appears it no longer considers it un-Islamic and its ISAF and the Afghans that are eradicating it. I agree the Taliban methods were more efficient but I prefer our methods.
kai
ragamuffin
you cant do it overnight --well you can if you are ruthless enough.
The number of opium poppy-free provinces has increased from 18 to 20 out of a total number of 34
Afghan opium production in significant decline
Aquitaine
Well-Known Member
Not only that, but was/is all the lives, money, gear and effort we're putting into this conflict simply worth it?
:no:
People may find my anti-war stance as un-patriotic, but quite frankly I put it this way: I don't want British soldiers being killed over pointless/unwinnable wars that arn't going to positiviely affect them in any way, shape, or form.
If it was a war for survival then so be it, but that simply isn't the case here, same with Iraq.