Losing my atheism (my new spiritual journey)

[viole]

I know that this might sound surprising to whom knows my worldview, but I am seriously reconsidering my atheism (and naturalism).

I have been thinking a lot recently about the Universe and the place we occupy in it. And I asked myself the question: is that really all so pointless? Do we really evolve, live, die and that's it? Isn't maybe possible that humanity occupies a special place in the great scheme of things?

If we collect all the arguments that hint at the possibility of God, we cannot really see one that sets the issue. But all of them could give us some cumulative pieces of evidence all pointing to a possible trascendent reality. This is also the process we use to provide evidence in science.

For instance, the amazing effectivity of mathematics to describe the Universe is something I could not really explain as a naturalist. How is that possible that mathematics applies so perfectly to the fabric of reality if there is not a mind behind all this?

I also considered the fine tuning argument as one of the strongest ones in support of a non natural origin of conscious beings. The chances of life are so negligible that it seems really a stretch to believe that consciousness can arise out of unconscious processes. We should expect a Universe just filled with dead things and not one with life. Especially not one with introspective life, or life that goes beyond the immediate survival instincts: i.e life that can give the Universe itself a meaning.

But the key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.


Ciao

- viole

 

[dust1n]

And I asked myself the question: is that really all so pointless? Do we really evolve, live, die and that's it?

And if the answer to these two questions is yes?

Isn't maybe possible that humanity occupies a special place in the great scheme of things

I would question the worth of this great scheme of things.

We should expect a Universe just filled with dead things and not one with life. Especially not one with introspective life, or life that goes beyond the immediate survival instincts: i.e life that can give the Universe itself a meaning.

How could you have a universe of dead things without first having a universe of living things to die?

Isn't the universe filled far more with non-living material than living material?

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.

I guess, but it still goes with a litany of other related nonsense, especially when were referring to an Abrahamic god.

 

[Jumi]

Is this the Christian God you are talking about or some other?

When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

I don't think it matter what you call it as long as you were inspired by it. I too have this sense when I go into nature, it comes often once I learned meditation and clear the mind. It feels like you are seeing and breathing for the first time.

I think you shouldn't throw everything in the garbage bin though. You can explore this new experience and keep your knowledge intact.

 

[Windwalker]

But the key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished.

Welcome to the real world, the one that exists before and beyond rational analysis.

That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

It somewhat surprises me there are those that have never experienced this as to me it is largely a natural state. Of course it is a mystical experience. Nature mysticism is how this could be classified. You might consider reading some Emerson. For me, I shoot nature photography as an artistic connection with nature. It's a wonderful world to be explored with the heart. And that's what this is, seeing life through the heart, through ones very being.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.

I have said this to other friends who having mystical experience associate it with their former religion and are worried about going back to what they had previously left for good reasons. I say you cannot unbake bread. It's hard to ignore your current changed state, having realized the shortcomings where your old religion had failed you. The trick is to understand, as it was for me, to realize that religion does not own God. They lay claim to being the sole proprietors of all things spiritual, but the reality is they not only are not, but often times don't even have what you have experienced! And there is much more beyond this ahead too.

I might also argue that you could have become open to this because the religion was out of the way for you. It's an interesting realization that atheism actually helps spirituality move deeper because it gets rid of religious bondage. It's not that it promotes the spiritual as it misunderstandings from the uber-rational mind that anything non-rational (meaning exists outside of reasoned thoughts and ideas), is superstitious woo, and whatnot. That's atheism's shortcoming, even while providing a service.

Anyway, I'm happy for you. Again, welcome to the real world.

 

[Iti oj]

Im not sure how those questions demonstrate anything. Where ever you end up best off luck to you.

 

[Thana]

I know that this might sound surprising to whom knows my worldview, but I am seriously reconsidering my atheism (and naturalism).

I have been thinking a lot recently about the Universe and the place we occupy in it. And I asked myself the question: is that really all so pointless? Do we really evolve, live, die and that's it? Isn't maybe possible that humanity occupies a special place in the great scheme of things?

If we collect all the arguments that hint at the possibility of God, we cannot really see one that sets the issue. But all of them could give us some cumulative pieces of evidence all pointing to a possible trascendent reality. This is also the process we use to provide evidence in science.

For instance, the amazing effectivity of mathematics to describe the Universe is something I could not really explain as a naturalist. How is that possible that mathematics applies so perfectly to the fabric of reality if there is not a mind behind all this?

I also considered the fine tuning argument as one of the strongest ones in support of a non natural origin of conscious beings. The chances of life are so negligible that it seems really a stretch to believe that consciousness can arise out of unconscious processes. We should expect a Universe just filled with dead things and not one with life. Especially not one with introspective life, or life that goes beyond the immediate survival instincts: i.e life that can give the Universe itself a meaning.

But the key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.


Ciao

- viole

Good for you.

Even if you don't discard your Atheism, An open and curious heart is something to be glad for.

Best of luck on your spiritual journey

 

[Altfish]

Have you considered The Flying Spaghetti Monster, a fine religion involving pirates, pasta and beer

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My personal opinion is that atheism doesnt rule out seeing the "something" behind what shaped the universe. By literal interpretation it just means one lack belief in deities, not including spirituality and finding there is a spiritual force, for lack of better words, behind life. So, unless you truely believe in God...Im told atheist who convert to christianity has revelations that brought them to Christ, I wouldnt throw away the towel of the rationality of life. You dont have to make it a religion of itself. Rather, it defines your world view and like the Buddha taught, knowing the law of life is spirituality in itself.

Id not see atheism asna religion that one must convert from. Rather, I see you are finding there is much more than what one sees with the naked eye. Stick with that. No need to define if that should fall under a specific religion. Atheists have goals to..relation to family, friends, community,work, so forth.

Keep your reasonijg. Dont throw away common sense but see it as the source behind the majesty of life. Science offers no explanation for the unknown. Embrace it and let it be.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

Experiences like that are to be valued, though I'd suggest it's better to explore further while retaining an open mind - dare I say it, in a natural way. The theist / naturalist dichotomy might well be an unnecessary distraction which can be left to one side.

 

[Father Heathen]

Just remember to differentiate between god and how people perceive and portray god. A real god wouldn't have a mortal's hand up its ***, using it as a sock puppet through which they project their own ego and emotion. I am of course referring to the self-appointed, self-serving middlemen of religion. No god would gift you with the ability to reason only to expect you to forgo its use.

 

[LuisDantas]

I guess I just don't understand why people make so much out of god, or to beliefs about it. Why would it even matter whether there is a god?

Believe, or do not. It changes nothing.

 

[HonestJoe]

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it.

Nothing wrong with that at all. Anyone who isn't confused about this whole area isn't thinking about it enough in the first place. In my experience people are happiest when they learn to embrace the confusion rather than desperately try to resolve it.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I guess I just don't understand why people make so much out of god, or to beliefs about it. Why would it even matter whether there is a god?

Believe, or do not. It changes nothing.

It'd change everything. To know there are beings more powerful and advanced then we are and to give us a deeper perspective of the universe, especially if one was to have a relationship with the deity.

 

[Revoltingest]

I found your atheism!
It's in the RF Lost & Found Dept.
It's in good condition, but it's calling for you...it misses you.

 

[LuisDantas]

It'd change everything. To know there are beings more powerful and advanced they are and to give us a deeper perspective of the universe, especially if one was to have a relationship with the deity.

But that would not be a change if it were true. An important discovery, most likely.

Deities seem to be pretty much inconsequential, when compared to the expectations about their existence and nature.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

But that would not be a change if it were true. An important discovery, most likely.

Deities seem to be pretty much inconsequential, when compared to the expectations about their existence and nature.

Discoveries can change something. For example if you were to discover a city lost in myth, only to find irrefutable proof of it's existence, it might change some textbooks, would it not?

You yourself would change if you were to make contact with a deity. Changes would either be subtle or major, but nevertheless, the change would take place.

 

[Laika]

But the key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.

I think to be honest you should go with it as if that is the case something inside of you is saying "I want more", that really isn't a bad thing. The problem with Atheism and naturalism is that whilst they are more likely to be true and can be empowering in scientific terms, it that they are not necessarily fulfilling and it takes time to really figure out what atheism says about us and our place in the world. I think being willing to be open to the inner experience of religion is actually very healthy, though I don't think it will give you the answers you want- it may help you ask the right questions.

There is something to be said that we can be too rational, and exploring the other emotional side of our personality can be really helpful. religion is one way of doing it, but I would recommend looking into psychology if you want more secular and naturalistic explanations as well. Atheism is more of the beginning of a journey than a destination and there is still a lot that can be learned from religious people about the human condition, even if we think god isn't part of the picture. I would recommend Erich Fromm's books for a humanistic perspective, but it's really up to you.

Have fun.

 

[Willamena]

I don't understand the math issue, though I've heard it before--obviously some have an image of what maths is that I don't. To me, maths is a language composed of symbols that describe the universe. Why is it mystical that it should apply to the universe?

 

[Jainarayan]

The Abrahamic God is not the only concept of God. One can believe in a non-anthropomorphic God as the "mover and shaker" of the universe, as it were. A God doesn't have to be the old man in the sky with the long white beard. Deism is a nice middle ground between the God of Abraham and an non-anthropomorphic God. Gods could very well be beings who are part of the universe; there is just too much we don't know, but even they don't require being anthropomorphic. I think Deism ftw.

 

[LuisDantas]

Discoveries can change something. For example if you were to discover a city lost in myth, only to find irrefutable proof of it's existence, it might change some textbooks, would it not?

You yourself would change if you were to make contact with a deity. Changes would either be subtle or major, but nevertheless, the change would take place.

I have logically considered the matter long enough to know that for me, personally, that just can't very well be an important matter either way.

I suppose it can be very important for some, but I can't very well help but find that weird. At the end of the day that what is sacred in no way needs any concepts of deity, and IMO can only rarely be truly helped by them.