Losing my atheism (my new spiritual journey)

[Serenity7855]

This is a forum for anyone, and that includes atheists.

I have made no assertion to the contrary. I am addressing the remarks of "JustWondering" I do not even know if s/he is an atheists. You seem preoccupied in the defence of the anti-theist.

Did it occur to you that it might interest him, for whatever his or her reasons might be.

After he said that he doesn't have to take it seriously, no.

That is why I said all peoples should be respected.

I agree

It's one of the things about Buddhism that I love, respect and compassion for everyone, or iow, the sanctity of life.

You seem to be a new found convert to Buddhism.

What makes you think this is a forum for just theists? It is not.

Nothing that I have said in any of my post would suggest, in the remotest, that I believe this forum is strictly for theists. You seem to be trying to pick a fight by misrepresenting me. Why?

It is for everyone with an interest, and if you cannot respect that, perhaps it would be best if you just put him or her on ignore?

I am not the one claiming not having to take Christianity seriously. I only ever put aggressive atheists, whose sole intentions are to cause contention, on my ignore list. If "JustWondering" turns out to be that way inclined, then I will put him there.

 

[Muffled]

Surely a being who is intricate, complex, and precise enough to shape subatomic particles and "program" DNA could not exist without being designed.

I believe if the intelligence were material (like the brain of an architect) one could say that but God is immaterial. I believe the possiblity that such an intelligence can exist is just as possible that the universe could just exist but it is more credible to believe a universe was created by an intelligence than it is to believe that an intelligence was created by another intelligence. For one thing there is no benefit for one intelligence to create another like intelligence but it is beneficial for an intelligence to create a universe for its own intellectual exercise.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe if the intelligence were material (like the brain of an architect) one could say that but God is immaterial. I believe the possiblity that such an intelligence can exist is just as possible that the universe could just exist but it is more credible to believe a universe was created by an intelligence than it is to believe that an intelligence was created by another intelligence. For one thing there is no benefit for one intelligence to create another like intelligence but it is beneficial for an intelligence to create a universe for its own intellectual exercise.

So you think that there's "benefit" for God to create the universe but not for an Uber-god to create God?

You do realize that you're just making stuff up at this point, right?

 

[Jumi]

For one thing there is no benefit for one intelligence to create another like intelligence but it is beneficial for an intelligence to create a universe for its own intellectual exercise.

You don't believe God created us?

 

[Serenity7855]

I believe if the intelligence were material (like the brain of an architect) one could say that but God is immaterial. I believe the possiblity that such an intelligence can exist is just as possible that the universe could just exist but it is more credible to believe a universe was created by an intelligence than it is to believe that an intelligence was created by another intelligence. For one thing there is no benefit for one intelligence to create another like intelligence but it is beneficial for an intelligence to create a universe for its own intellectual exercise.

Just a couple of points that maybe you can address for me.

1. I am a devout Christian and I have no idea as to the physical nature of God. What makes you think that God is immaterial. If anything, the scripture that say "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" would suggest that God has a tangible body of flesh and bones. Indeed we know that Jesus was physical after his resurrection as he said to Thomas - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And Finally Jesus said to John - "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" They looked the same. From those scriptures you would not be remiss in saying that God is a physical being. But even then, no one can be sure, he might be both.

2. When you say that Intellegence was created you assume that there was a time when it did not exist. I guess you are right, in a sense, as when it existed there was no time. Why do you assume that? In the physical and mortal world everything has a beginning and an end, but God is known as the eternal Father, not having a beginning of days or an end. We assume that the continuation of our life is eternal, so why would you think that we had a beginning. Why do you believe that the intellegences that posses our bodies today, didn't have an existence prior to this mortal journey, that we are currently on. Time is only relevant to our world, our universe. It is a corrupter and a killer. It destroys everything that lives within it bounds. Satan loves it, but it has no place in the Kingdom of God, therefore, neither does its distructive bondage and constraints. We, as christians, need to have an eternal perspective where, eventually, corruption and canker do not exist. We do not need the gloom and doom that time brings to us. We came from a timeless realm and we will return there when we leave the bondages of time, in this world, and return to the world of spirits from whence we came, thankfully. Eternity has no time for time.

 

[tayla]

For instance, the amazing effectivity of mathematics to describe the Universe is something I could not really explain as a naturalist. How is that possible that mathematics applies so perfectly to the fabric of reality if there is not a mind behind all this?

Yes.

I also considered the fine tuning argument as one of the strongest ones in support of a non natural origin of conscious beings. The chances of life are so negligible that it seems really a stretch to believe that consciousness can arise out of unconscious processes. We should expect a Universe just filled with dead things and not one with life. Especially not one with introspective life, or life that goes beyond the immediate survival instincts: i.e life that can give the Universe itself a meaning.

Yes.

I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

Yes.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.

I stumbled upon your post at a very interesting time in my life. After being a fundamentalist evangelical Protestant converted to Catholic, I recently came to believe the claims of Christianity are untrue and don't match historical and scientific reality. I still believe in God and consider myself a deist monotheist agnostic panentheist. Your words were refreshing, just knowing that others share a similar view of reality.

 

[Fool]

I know that this might sound surprising to whom knows my worldview, but I am seriously reconsidering my atheism (and naturalism).

I have been thinking a lot recently about the Universe and the place we occupy in it. And I asked myself the question: is that really all so pointless? Do we really evolve, live, die and that's it? Isn't maybe possible that humanity occupies a special place in the great scheme of things?

If we collect all the arguments that hint at the possibility of God, we cannot really see one that sets the issue. But all of them could give us some cumulative pieces of evidence all pointing to a possible trascendent reality. This is also the process we use to provide evidence in science.

For instance, the amazing effectivity of mathematics to describe the Universe is something I could not really explain as a naturalist. How is that possible that mathematics applies so perfectly to the fabric of reality if there is not a mind behind all this?

I also considered the fine tuning argument as one of the strongest ones in support of a non natural origin of conscious beings. The chances of life are so negligible that it seems really a stretch to believe that consciousness can arise out of unconscious processes. We should expect a Universe just filled with dead things and not one with life. Especially not one with introspective life, or life that goes beyond the immediate survival instincts: i.e life that can give the Universe itself a meaning.

But the key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.


Ciao

- viole

the wonderful thing about this whole post imo, is that you're still actively questioning.


"And something else that has been discovered over the past few years is that the enzyme and the gene that synthesise DMT are quite active in the retina. So it could be that DMT is regulating a visual perception in particular as well as regulation of consciousness."



best wishes in your never ending search and wondering wander.

 

[Muffled]

So you think that there's "benefit" for God to create the universe but not for an Uber-god to create God?

You do realize that you're just making stuff up at this point, right?

I believe what I stated makes sense.

I believe I do all my responding as the Holy Spirit leads me.

I believe you need a little help understanding the logic.

If a god is all powerful and all knowing then it does not require another entity that is all powerful and all knowing since He already has what is needed.

 

[Dantedeven]

I know that this might sound surprising to whom knows my worldview, but I am seriously reconsidering my atheism (and naturalism).

Congratulations on your experience.

The key moment was this morning. And it was not a mere rational analysis. I just had a look out of my window. When I saw the mountains, the lake, the majesty and the beauty surrounding me, I experienced a moment in which I felt one with everything. All the long term pointlessness of my naturalistic view vanished. That was stunning and something I never felt before. I don't know if that can be considered a mystic experience, but it felt like one.

I am glad you experienced this! Everything is one, nature is a product of God.

At the moment, I am a bit confused and still thinking about it. My Christian friend thinks that God is claiming me back, and, for the first time since a long time, I cannot definetely rule that out.

You will know in time if that is correct. If God is claiming you back, know there will be no doubt. You will know it for certain. Watch for miracles and signs, only you know them!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This thread is an old April Fools joke. The OP wasn't serious. Let it die.

 

[viole]

Congratulations on your experience.




I am glad you experienced this! Everything is one, nature is a product of God.



You will know in time if that is correct. If God is claiming you back, know there will be no doubt. You will know it for certain. Watch for miracles and signs, only you know them!

That was an old April joke of mine. I am surprised it still delivers

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

the wonderful thing about this whole post imo, is that you're still actively questioning.


"And something else that has been discovered over the past few years is that the enzyme and the gene that synthesise DMT are quite active in the retina. So it could be that DMT is regulating a visual perception in particular as well as regulation of consciousness."



best wishes in your never ending search and wondering wander.

That was an April joke.

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I stumbled upon your post at a very interesting time in my life. After being a fundamentalist evangelical Protestant converted to Catholic, I recently came to believe the claims of Christianity are untrue and don't match historical and scientific reality. I still believe in God and consider myself a deist monotheist agnostic panentheist. Your words were refreshing, just knowing that others share a similar view of reality.

That was an April joke. In reality, I find the existence of a God completely implausible.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Cary Cook]

IAnd I asked myself the question: is that really all so pointless? Do we really evolve, live, die and that's it?

I agree with the atheists that none of this fluffy spiritual stuff can be shown to be anything more than a survival facilitating mechanism.

But the mere possibility of an afterlife in which good behavior is rewarded and bad behavior punished is sufficient to get me to bet on this possibility. I can't say I like the results of this bet so far, but I don't regret having placed it.

 

[Cary Cook]

Just remember to differentiate between god and how people perceive and portray god. A real god wouldn't have a mortal's hand up its ***, using it as a sock puppet through which they project their own ego and emotion. I am of course referring to the self-appointed, self-serving middlemen of religion. No god would gift you with the ability to reason only to expect you to forgo its use.

Right on! And no god/God (capital G or not) would create minds that judge probability sensibly, then tell them to believe things contrary to it, then punish them for not believing what he never designed them to believe.