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Louisiana becomes first state to require that Ten Commandments be displayed in public classrooms

Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Evangelicalhumanist said:
How many other rights would you permit states to take away from their citizens, at the behest of state majorities? Can you enumerate which you would and would not?

The right to marry? To marry a person of another race? Of the same sex?
The right to freedom of assembly?
The right to privacy?
Non-discrimination on the basis of (pick all that apply): race, colour, sex, sexual orientation, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status?
Habeas Corpus?
Political dissent? (Many countries/states don't like that at all. Russia jails people for it.)
Click to expand...
The 1st amendment ensures freedom of religion and assembly, freedom of the press, and freedom to petition for redresses of grievances. It also, shows us in the declaration of independence what is accepted and expected as an appropriate way to dissolve one people from others under constitutional law.
 
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Balthazzar said:
I suggested they were already very well accepted and that the debate is trivial when it comes to Louisianna and their wishes for those who reside in that state. You bring up humanism and I agree, but then so do many other various flavors of idealism. I agree with the last points, which is why I also agree with Louisiana's decision. It opens a window for more intimate assembly, which would promote much greater cooperation between us and others connected to the greater democratic structure. It hasn't been declared, but this dissolution from the federal will promote in that state the wishes of their majority, which will lend itself to that states specific citizenship happiness and prosperity. It's a red state. It's to be expected from the conservative voter base. Blue States will likely not be on board, which is fine. They won't even need to pursue such a dissolution.
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You're ignoring the main point. What you want Louisianna to do is unconstitutional. A competent Supreme Court would strike the law down.

America is set up so that you can expose your kids to all the religion you choose at home or church, and others can prevent their children from being subjected to religion in school. What could an atheist do if he lived in Louisianna to protect them from that besides them repeatedly say that those were an inferior set of ethics? I would want freedom from religion for them.

And is that good for Christianity having parents condemning it repeatedly at home for what it does in the classroom? I imagine that that doesn't happen very often if at all in most atheist homes.

Here's something analogous. We live near a Catholic church that likes to make a lot of noise clanging bells announcing mass and igniting bottle rockets to celebrate church holidays. Whenever they disturb us or our dogs - and my dogs shake and shiver at those explosions - I have very negative thoughts about their religion, which get reinforced regularly. If they would confine their festivities to themselves, I probably wouldn't think about the Catholic church ever, but as it is, I regularly think things that you'd likely consider blasphemous and very offensive if I said them out loud. I consider them rude and selfish neighbors for terrifying the town's pets and probably livestock as well. Is that good for the church?

That's also how I feel about the Christians in Louisianna as well. They're selfish.

Here's a thought. How about posting in schools that Christianity is a false religion with a flawed moral code? Are you good with the children of people trying to raise them as Christians seeing that in school every day? If not, then you probably shouldn't support doing the reverse to the children of parents who want to protect them from religious indoctrination.
Balthazzar said:
The 1st amendment ensures freedom of religion and assembly, freedom of the press, and freedom to petition for redresses of grievances.
Click to expand...
You left out an important one: freedom from religion. Freedom of religion means nothing to an atheist. It's the flip side that has value.
Regiomontanus said:
There is no way to justify slavery, murder, etc., if one really follows the teaching of the Christ.
Click to expand...
As far as I know, Jesus never said to not own slaves, and the OT gives rules for slavers that I believe that Jesus said he did not come to change. If I've got that right, it's not hard to argue that that's an endorsement of slavery.
 
Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Re @Balthazzar, I'm afraid we have as he says a wanderer who is searching for something, anything, this version of religion being the most recent thing. I wish in the cosmic sense that we can do something for him.
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
It Aint Necessarily So said:
You're ignoring the main point. What you want Louisianna to do is unconstitutional. A competent Supreme Court would strike the law down.

America is set up so that you can expose your kids to all the religion you choose at home or church, and others can prevent their children from being subjected to religion in school. What could an atheist do if he lived in Louisianna to protect them from that besides them repeatedly say that those were an inferior set of ethics? I would want freedom from religion for them.

And is that good for Christianity having parents condemning it repeatedly at home for what it does in the classroom? I imagine that that doesn't happen very often if at all in most atheist homes.

Here's something analogous. We live near a Catholic church that likes to make a lot of noise clanging bells announcing mass and igniting bottle rockets to celebrate church holidays. Whenever they disturb us or our dogs - and my dogs shake and shiver at those explosions - I have very negative thoughts about their religion, which get reinforced regularly. If they would confine their festivities to themselves, I probably wouldn't think about the Catholic church ever, but as it is, I regularly think things that you'd likely consider blasphemous and very offensive if I said them out loud. I consider them rude and selfish neighbors for terrifying the town's pets and probably livestock as well. Is that good for the church?

That's also how I feel about the Christians in Louisianna as well. They're selfish.

Here's a thought. How about posting in schools that Christianity is a false religion with a flawed moral code? Are you good with the children of people trying to raise them as Christians seeing that in school every day? If not, then you probably shouldn't support doing the reverse to the children of parents who want to protect them from religious indoctrination.

You left out an important one: freedom from religion. Freedom of religion means nothing to an atheist. It's the flip side that has value.

As far as I know, Jesus never said to not own slaves, and the OT gives rules for slavers that I believe that Jesus said he did not come to change. If I've got that right, it's not hard to argue that that's an endorsement of slavery.
Click to expand...

This is what I see as constitutional. In 1776, this nation declared independence from British rule and developed a structure from which we derive our policies and decisions as a people. I would expect reasons to be provided that compelled the Supreme court to allow Louisiana to dissolve such ties that once bound them and has now enabled them to enact this law in their State. I'm sure there are many reasons.

At one time, and for over 200 years this freedom was honored in the schools and even our text books. Within the last 40 or so years, these freedoms were stripped from those who honor them. Going back to 1776 I learned something about the intent, so I expect a reason to be offered for the dissolution effort.

Edit: Also, what you seem to be missing in your suggestion is intellectual honesty, if only for the reason that only one state is allowing this while the other 49 have not yet made this type of effort as a majority per state, which means that Atheists are being honored in 49 of our 50 and our Christian base is being honored in 1 and every other religion is being honored in none.

Yet, you somehow deem it something selfish. I'm curious, would you prefer to live in a blue state with people who are more so likeminded than those in Louisiana or would you prefer to live in Louisiana where certain ties have been dissolved, enabling them to pass the law?
 
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Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Regiomontanus said:
I know you like to get in the last word :), so we will just have to agree to disagree on the non-violent, all loving, nature of the Christ. Wait, you need to reply you this
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Fine, we disagree, show us some evidence that he is always non violent and loving or is it only the fact that his followers are incapable of being so.
 
Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Balthazzar said:
This is what I see as constitutional. In 1976, this nation declared independence from British rule and developed a structure from which we derive our policies and decisions as a people. I would expect reasons to be provided that compelled the Supreme court to allow Louisiana to dissolve such ties that once bound them and has now enabled them to enact this law in their State. I'm sure there are many reasons.

At one time, and for over 200 years this freedom was honored in the schools and even our text books. Within the last 40 or so years, these freedoms were stripped from those who honor them. Going back to 1776 I learned something about the intent, so I expect a reason to be offered for the dissolution effort.

Edit: Also, what you seem to be missing in your suggestion is intellectual honesty, if only for the reason that only one state is allowing this while the other 49 have not yet made this type of effort as a majority per state, which means that Atheists are being honored in 49 of our 50 and our Christian base is being honored in 1.

Yet, you somehow deem it something selfish. I'm curious, would you prefer to live in a blue state with people who are more so likeminded than those in Louisiana or would you prefer to live in Louisiana where certain ties have been dissolved, enabling them to pass the law?
Click to expand...
Balthazar I don't think you are that far gone, I have a friend I haven't seen in a while who was a traveler in a Toyota pickup camper. He spent a lot of time thinking, but he said that he would often go off in directions that were ultimately harmful to his desire to be just a free human. His conclusion was that humanity is what is out there and there was nothing more than interaction with it.
That said, not doing it was something he enjoyed.
Might follow him some day.
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
It Aint Necessarily So said:
You're ignoring the main point. What you want Louisianna to do is unconstitutional. A competent Supreme Court would strike the law down.

America is set up so that you can expose your kids to all the religion you choose at home or church, and others can prevent their children from being subjected to religion in school. What could an atheist do if he lived in Louisianna to protect them from that besides them repeatedly say that those were an inferior set of ethics? I would want freedom from religion for them.

And is that good for Christianity having parents condemning it repeatedly at home for what it does in the classroom? I imagine that that doesn't happen very often if at all in most atheist homes.

Here's something analogous. We live near a Catholic church that likes to make a lot of noise clanging bells announcing mass and igniting bottle rockets to celebrate church holidays. Whenever they disturb us or our dogs - and my dogs shake and shiver at those explosions - I have very negative thoughts about their religion, which get reinforced regularly. If they would confine their festivities to themselves, I probably wouldn't think about the Catholic church ever, but as it is, I regularly think things that you'd likely consider blasphemous and very offensive if I said them out loud. I consider them rude and selfish neighbors for terrifying the town's pets and probably livestock as well. Is that good for the church?

That's also how I feel about the Christians in Louisianna as well. They're selfish.

Here's a thought. How about posting in schools that Christianity is a false religion with a flawed moral code? Are you good with the children of people trying to raise them as Christians seeing that in school every day? If not, then you probably shouldn't support doing the reverse to the children of parents who want to protect them from religious indoctrination.

You left out an important one: freedom from religion. Freedom of religion means nothing to an atheist. It's the flip side that has value.

As far as I know, Jesus never said to not own slaves, and the OT gives rules for slavers that I believe that Jesus said he did not come to change. If I've got that right, it's not hard to argue that that's an endorsement of slavery.
Click to expand...
I forgot one point. You mentioned the acts where people claim Christianity as false but this is everyday life everywhere and by many many people. I'm sure of this one. The thing is, all public Schools are federally funded, which means that Louisianna had to work and express something to win this one. They are no longer subject to federally enforced denial of that states religious affiliation in the school systems per majority, but the rest of this nation is. This is a local constitutional matter of choosing to dissolve that denied right per state preference. This is something you must work for and win.

Again, 1 for Christianity, 49 for atheists, and none for all other religions...at least not yet.
 
Viker

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Regiomontanus said:
I respect your opinion but you are wrong. There is no way to justify slavery, murder, etc., if one really follows the teaching of the Christ.
Click to expand...
Ephesians 6,

"5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6
Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart."
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Pogo said:
Balthazar I don't think you are that far gone, I have a friend I haven't seen in a while who was a traveler in a Toyota pickup camper. He spent a lot of time thinking, but he said that he would often go off in directions that were ultimately harmful to his desire to be just a free human. His conclusion was that humanity is what is out there and there was nothing more than interaction with it.
That said, not doing it was something he enjoyed.
Might follow him some day.
Click to expand...
I intend to continue acknowledging that life happens and people simply play roles within the substance that makes life, life. So does everything else, and humanity is only one integral role in everything that exists. Were like packs within packs living among other packs who live among many other types of living things. What's cool about Louisianna is they became a pack together. I may or may not stick around. I'm fond of recording history. There's a lot going on in this nation.

A Pentax K3, a couple lenses, a laptop, and a passion for the word, which is about language and communication. It's a freedom that many are denied around the globe. Freedom of the press, of speech, of religion, and freedom to assemble peaceably to petition for a redress of grievances.
 
Regiomontanus

Regiomontanus

Eastern Orthodox
Viker said:
Ephesians 6,

"5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6
Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart."
Click to expand...

Because if they did not, they would be killed. Jesus was not here to wage war on Rome, but rather plant a seed - the good news.
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Viker said:
Ephesians 6,

"5
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6
Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart."
Click to expand...

So, I'm bound here on earth, I'm bound to my convictions, I'm bound by many things in life, and I'm bound to honor that which I value. It's not so much that I am forcefully bound, it's just that I'm bound.
 
Pogo

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Balthazzar said:
I intend to continue acknowledging that life happens and people simply play roles within the substance that makes life, life. So does everything else, and humanity is only one integral role in everything that exists. Were like packs within packs living among other packs who live among many other types of living things. What's cool about Louisianna is they became a pack together. I may or may not stick around. I'm fond of recording history. There's a lot going on in this nation.

A Pentax K3, a couple lenses, a laptop, and a passion for the word, which is about language and communication. It's a freedom that many are denied around the globe. Freedom of the press, of speech, of religion, and freedom to assemble peaceably to petition for a redress of grievances.
Click to expand...
Had an old Konica SLR with shutter priority, been there and done that, I encourage your documentation but
I will warn you that imposing your feelings on the images you are creating is not conducive to recording, They and we are what we are no matter what any book says. There is more out there if you give up on predefined ideas.

Doesn't make it easy, I am enjoying the flowers of the season, but worrying how to deal with the next, It is up to me.
 
Balthazzar

Balthazzar

N. Germanic Descent
Pogo said:
Had an old Konica SLR with shutter priority, been there and done that, I encourage your documentation but
I will warn you that imposing your feelings on the images you are creating is not conducive to recording, They and we are what we are no matter what any book says. There is more out there if you give up on predefined ideas.

Doesn't make it easy, I am enjoying the flowers of the season, but worrying how to deal with the next, It is up to me.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you might be referring to. I'll tell that I love photography, I love politics, and I love nature. I'll tell you that we're living in monumental times worth recording, and that people involved in these moments are worth recording, and I'm allowed if not obligated to attach my feelings to the imagery I record. That's art. That's part of communication. That's life. I've had a few cameras over the years. From simple point and shoots to more advanced point and shoots to slr's and dslr's. I've never had a mirrorless, but opted for an old flagship, the k3, which is a worthy machine for what I've aimed to do for over 2 decades now.
 
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