love your neighbor....really?

[ninerbuff]

Growing up, I "loved" my neighbor several times! She was hot!

 

[waitasec]

Well, I guess I'd say two things: first, that we prefer to look at it not as sort of an imposed doctrine of "there can be only one God," but as the understanding of a phenomenon: "there is one God." Many others besides Jews concur with this understanding, and it's not necessarily that we think those who don't are bad or anything, so much simply that they are misunderstanding the phenomenon of the divine.

when i was an evangelical christian there was a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood which was the understanding that all who believed in god and followed his laws, to the best of their ability, were under an umbrella that brought everyone together...a fraternity or a sorority, of theists, if you will. those under the umbrella were the neighbors in light of leviticus. BUT because of our innate sense of equality we all know every human being deserves to be treated equally with respect... so we naturally assume neighbor means everyone
god would be a failure if his people didn't learn to live with one another.
in leviticus, there had to be a sense of mutual interests in order for their society to thrive in...their salvation....their hope depended on god who would commit to the covenant if his people did also.

Which, to be fair, is easy to do. Nobody understands God completely, or even close to completely. And God, being Infinite, and paradoxical, has many aspects that we perceive, and is experienced differently by different people, in different ways. In some ways, it's actually amazing that as many people as there are have managed to figure out monotheism in one form or degree or another, considering how easy it would be to presume that different aspects or experiences of God are actually experiences of multiple entities or phenomena. And, at least these days, so long as polytheists are not trying to unduly influence or convert Jews (which really hasn't happened in a couple of thousand years), we tend to believe that they are good people, trying to worship and honor God as best they can, and they simply happen to have made some theological mistakes along the way.

but isn't that an understanding which has evolved over time as our world has become smaller...? i believe it's all due to people who have a sense of empathy towards all people regardless of religion and race, believers and unbelievers alike...humanitarian's...the enlightenment...the acknowledgment of human rights... we recognize we need to be able to live in some sort of a peaceful arrangement in order to co-exist.

God is God. And making different theological choices, or even making theological mistakes, minor or major, about His nature is not really an excuse for us to treat others poorly, and cheat them, lie to them, or fail to help them if they are in need.

i agree, but it is used an an excuse for the fundamentalists unfortunately...
who i believe are influential.

Second is that is certainly true that we generally say that tzedakah (sometimes translated as "charity," although that's imprecise, given that "charity" comes from the Latin caritas, indicating something done out of compassion, and tzedakah comes from a root having to do with justice, meaning that good behavior, caring for those in need, protecting the defenseless, etc. are all things done not out of compassion, but because it is only right to do them) is done first in one's own community and second in others, but that is also because we understand that not to take care of our own risks our own becoming a burden on others.

we are all innately empathetic to others...this is done naturally with out being commanded to do so.

I guess I'm not sure what "solidarity" you're referring to. The solidarity of moral or ethical behavior? Of doing the right thing? Of trying to create a just society? Because I think a whole lot of societies have versions of that, it's true. Or is it monotheism? Or merely the desire to interweave our experience of the numinous or the spiritual into everyday life? Because other societies also have those.

in leviticus is was to band everyone with a common interest...god and his promise to his people.
in todays world, i am referring to the greater good...neighbor has an entire different meaning because as i mentioned before, the world is a lot smaller and we know we need to live peacefully if we are to live together.

And we're okay with that. Part of the idea that Judaism and Torah are for Jews, and were never intended for other peoples is the acceptance, or even valuation, of other cultures' attempts to seek and connect with God, and to establish and promote justice and ethical behavior as best they can. As long as they're doing those things, they have no need to do things our way, or even necessarily similarly to our way.

In this context, the word re'a almost certainly does not mean "neighbor," but rather something closer to "fellow" or "compatriot." If one wishes to interpret it narrowly, as meaning only other Jews, or, for that matter, even only those who live near you, or one's own clanspeople, that reading of the text is supportable, and can be made. But it is certainly not the only possible reading of the text, and many, if not most Jewish authorities over the past couple of thousand years have not read it so, but have read it more widely.

i agree. i just find it odd how people create a god from another peoples god and mold it into their understanding of their purpose in the world...
as i said before we all have an innate sense of empathy so we naturally take neighbor as everyone, but from what i have read and understand about leviticus, neighbor meant your compatriot...not the midianites, canaanite or the amalekites...much less the romans and the greeks...unless they converted leviticus
19:33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

I
In any case, as you know, we hold that Torah holds infinite meanings, and is designed to promote evolving understandings over time, as we mature, and our capacity to understand more complexities of ourselves and our Creator deepens. Even if the narrowest possible reading was embraced by our far ancestors (and we don't know that it was, nor do we know that it wasn't), it still has little impact on what readings we have chosen to embrace over the course of Rabbinic Judaism's history, or what readings we choose to embrace today.

i am tempted to take this even further...
if you don't love yourself, how do you love your neighbor...?

 

[waitasec]

Personally, I have always felt that the apparently disparate attitudes attributed to God and Christ are the major argument against the Trinity.

I take love thy neighbor to mean "play nice", i.e. treat them with kindness and courtesy. Some are just too unlovable, and I really have trouble with turn the other cheek especially with nasty people.

james

i don't blame you...

 

[waitasec]

waitasec,
Notice what John 13:34,35, says. These verses say that people would know Jesus' disciples by the love they show among themselves.

my point exactly...

Along with these verses, consider what Jesus said in the Greatest Sermon ever given, The Sermon on the Mount. At verses 5:44,45, Jesus said to continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you, so that you will be imitating your heavenly Father, who makes it rain on righteous as well as unrighteous people.

from what i understand is, historically speaking, the gospel of matthew was written at a time when the jewish religion was being challenged (the temple had been destroyed and the jews were trying to reconcile why god let that happen) and those who followed the jesus movement were being persecuted by the pharisees and the sadducees...
edit:
besides, who's to say the one being persecuted was the righteous one?

The next verses are telling, Matt 5:46-48, which says, If you love those loving you, what reward do you have and also if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing have you done. So these verses are meant for people who are not Christians, but people who are of other religions.

if you notice the context of this sermon;
he was speaking to his followers, who were...jewish...
some jews believed he was the messiah others did not...consider what jesus says in chapter 10
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.

Then consider 2Cor 6:14-18, where we are told not to be unevenly yokes with unbelievers, with verse 16 even saying to get out from among them.
Putting these scriptures together we have the truth of God's message. Christians are not to have close relationships with unbelievers, but we should LOVE ALL people to the extent that we will go far out of our way to teach they the truth of God's word.

my point exactly...believers are to be separated and once someone believes then they are a part of the flock...this is what i said to levite:

when i was an evangelical christian there was a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood which was the understanding that all who believed in god and followed his laws, to the best of their ability, were under an umbrella that brought everyone together...a fraternity or a sorority, of theists, if you will. those under the umbrella were the neighbors in light of leviticus. BUT because of our innate sense of equality we all know every human being deserves to be treated equally with respect... so we naturally assume neighbor means everyone
god would be a failure if his people didn't learn to live with one another.
in leviticus, there had to be a sense of mutual interests in order for their society to thrive in...their salvation....their hope depended on god who would commit to the covenant if his people did also.

This is the ultimate showing of love, because it gives the one who learn the opportunity for everlasting life in a paradise earth, that is very near NOW. Matt, chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, Luke chapter 21, 2Tim 3:1-7, show that we are eyewitnesses of all the conditions that Jesus said would be a sign that Jesus would be at the door. Rev 21:3-5, tells us just some of the conditions after Jesus comes to judge the earth at Armageddon.

from my understanding, we are not the eye witness to these things...they were supposed to be.

Christians love ALL people enough to want them to live, but as long as they are unbelievers, we do not want to be fellowshipping with them. This is what love is all about, teaching all who are interested about God and His son Jesus,Matt 28:19,20.

i get that and your are actually helping me make my point even clearer...

let me ask you something, do you think only christians/believers have this sense to love everyone as their self...or is this an innate quality within all except of course those who are not deviants of society?