Lucifer. is there a Devil?

[MohammadPali]

Is this a story you wrote for entertainment?

First, God created Adam out of the dust of the earth. Did God create him and then take him to heaven?

Second, God planted a TREE, wheat doesn't grow on a tree, you know that, right? So an apple can't make one fall from grace, but something that looks like wheat can?

Third, God created Eve out of Adams rib, and they were together since, nor record of them being separated. Where do you get they were separated for 40 years?

Fourth, to be in heaven, one must have a spiritual body, flesh and blood can not exist in heaven. How does a spirit defecate? Do spirits even eat?

It was some sort of plant, it made them have to use the bathroom. They didn't have bodies like you and me haev on earth.

And yes they were separated for 40 years as punishment. They may have also learned to hunt, farm, fish, swim, gather skills to survive earth. The earth is not made for us.

 

[Father]

Not like that, when Iblis was in the heavens, he was there because he was pious, and he was from amongst the best of the jinn who occupied or settled on earth. So god raised him up to the lowest level where angels congregate. He had special status.

When god was creating and molding adam, he had no soul in him, and iblis saw adams mold, and didn't understand what this mold was about. He was obsessed with what god was doing. He even said to himself, that god has a plan for this mold, who happened to be adam.

Anyway, when god said to the angels, I will send a vice-regent to earth, he was replacing the jinn entirely. This infuriated iblis, why would god do this ? And the reason why he did this was because the jinn on earth fought massive wars with each other, and destroyed their own civilizations. Iblis was from the jin. The angels also asked god, are you going to create a creature that sheds blood ? Meaning like the jinn ? fighting wars and causing deception with one another etc ? God said I know what you don't know.

So god created another creature the humans, adam being the first. When god told the angels to prostrate to adam, they did it in respect that hes a new creature, and he will be guided through god. And god taught adam all the names of the angels.

Eventually being in heaven, adam was lonely. The angels are not like humans where they have free will, he can talk with them, but they don't converse like humans. They are creatures of command sort of like robots. God created eve. And thats how they started.

Satan happened to be where the angels prostrated towards adam, and he didn't. He wasn't an angel, but he was one amongst them in respect. So when god commanded everyone there to prostrate, he also meant ibliss too. Ibliss didn't. God asked why ? Ibliss said I am made from fire, and this is made from dirt, why would you want me to prostrate to that dear lord ? this is a animal, why would I need too ? God was very angry and condemned him. But gave him respite. Iblis said lord, give me respite till the day of judgement so I can show you they are not worthy creatures. God granted him that.

The first test of obedience from mankind is when adam and eve ate from the plant. That was the test, god had known already what was going to happen. Its not that he allowed it to happen. It was going to happen no matter what.

ah, so Allahs just a prick. and everyone tools. Well, at least you're Honest. at least this story is far easier to follow. though I still have to say none of this is in the old testament and completely unique to the Quran and Islam. but still a better story than what the Christians Got.

 

[Father]

Not like that, when Iblis was in the heavens, he was there because he was pious, and he was from amongst the best of the jinn who occupied or settled on earth. So god raised him up to the lowest level where angels congregate. He had special status.

When god was creating and molding adam, he had no soul in him, and iblis saw adams mold, and didn't understand what this mold was about. He was obsessed with what god was doing. He even said to himself, that god has a plan for this mold, who happened to be adam.

Anyway, when god said to the angels, I will send a vice-regent to earth, he was replacing the jinn entirely. This infuriated iblis, why would god do this ? And the reason why he did this was because the jinn on earth fought massive wars with each other, and destroyed their own civilizations. Iblis was from the jin. The angels also asked god, are you going to create a creature that sheds blood ? Meaning like the jinn ? fighting wars and causing deception with one another etc ? God said I know what you don't know.

So god created another creature the humans, adam being the first. When god told the angels to prostrate to adam, they did it in respect that hes a new creature, and he will be guided through god. And god taught adam all the names of the angels.

Eventually being in heaven, adam was lonely. The angels are not like humans where they have free will, he can talk with them, but they don't converse like humans. They are creatures of command sort of like robots. God created eve. And thats how they started.

Satan happened to be where the angels prostrated towards adam, and he didn't. He wasn't an angel, but he was one amongst them in respect. So when god commanded everyone there to prostrate, he also meant ibliss too. Ibliss didn't. God asked why ? Ibliss said I am made from fire, and this is made from dirt, why would you want me to prostrate to that dear lord ? this is a animal, why would I need too ? God was very angry and condemned him. But gave him respite. Iblis said lord, give me respite till the day of judgement so I can show you they are not worthy creatures. God granted him that.

The first test of obedience from mankind is when adam and eve ate from the plant. That was the test, god had known already what was going to happen. Its not that he allowed it to happen. It was going to happen no matter what.

whats the point of a test if you know the results?

 

[crossfire]

II Petri 1:19Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)
19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris

2 Peter 1:19Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
19 So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

 

[Super Universe]

Good evening. this is a discussion about the verse in the Old testament mentioning Lucifer by name.

the only verse stating Lucifer that I know of. or at least originally states him by name.

Isiah 14:12-17
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the highest.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

this holds some problems though. "I will ascend into heaven" he is already in heaven. the highest sphere of heaven. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" that does not really come across as ascending God just the stars who are sometimes referred to as Angels.
"I will also sit on the mount of the congregation" reinforcing the angels part.
"on the farthest sides of the north" Lucifer is referred to as Prince of the East. what does north have to do with anything?

"yet you shall be brought down to Sheol" Sheol is not Hell. the Jews don't believe in Hell. Sheol is where all dead go. it's not Good or Evil it's just a place in the ground where mortals go. Heaven at the time was just thought of as where God and Angels reside. so why would an Angel be thrown into the place of the Human Dead?

this verse itself. seems more like it is referring to a Human than a celestial being. and in fact probably a King at the time for not being Holy. we see this in the bible all the time. David. Solomon. it seems every king ends up screwing up and getting some verses about there screw ups until everyone forgets about it a few books later and mentions them as the most Holy.

the backing of this would be the original use of the word satan or devil. they are verbs not names first and foremost. meaning Adversary and accuser. but God in the old testament had many. anyone who went against him was considered an Adversary in the sense. and so the words satan and devil are left more so open as a title than a Name. there is a verse also

Numbers 22::21-39 " I won't list the full story just this part.
1 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his Donkey, and went with the princes of Moab.

22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his Donkey, and his two servants were with him."

"Angel of the Lord stood in the way for an Adversary against him."

An adversary in Hebrew being satan. as its a verb. why would the Christian Lucifer work on Gods behalf? unless again there is no Lucifer and the satan just means Adversary and can be designated to many.
if you use what most Christians love to throw at others "out of context" the entire story they use to back the existence of Lucifer the Seraph the Highest archangel the fallen one. is all out of context.

especially if you just look at the point I made about the Verse Isiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
if such is the case it sort of destroy's the entirty or atleast majorty of christanity. there is no Adversary to fight. other than needing Jesus for the way. revelations is uneeded. as everything is just in occordance and allowed by the Abrahamic God.

I mean I love the character Lucifer as a character its very interesting I would advise if you have time to read the Comic Lucifer by DC and Vertigo it's quite good.

but everything I see historically and contextually wise goes against him being a biblical character other than the new testament where the story is a bit more intertwined.

Your thoughts on this?

Heaven is God's central focus with paradise. Paradise is where ascended beings live. There are many levels between the earth and heaven and time is shifted from level to level so, as you ascend time gets longer. Things happen in the universe at super speed, higher up the levels you go things happen much slower. The ratio is about 1,000 days on the earth equals 1 day in the higher levels.

When the word heaven is used in the bible the primitive humans never understood the levels between the earth and heaven. Angels do not come from heaven, they are formed in the levels between earth and heaven, so, angels do not know God. They only know what they are told by other angels.

Lucifer was a high level angel and administrator for this universe. He began a rebellion BEFORE adam and eve were on the earth. Other angels on the earth, the devil and Satan and Beelzebub, tried to secede the earth from Jesus control. Certain things that were supposed to happen did not happen. Adam and Eve failed in what they were supposed to do, partly because of their own actions and partly because of the actions of rebel angels.

Jesus allowed the rebellion to continue until every angel chose a side. Jesus had to come to the earth to live as a human to know what it is like but once He finished His earthly mission He ascended and had all rebel angels arrested. Jesus offered mercy to any rebel angel with the loss of position. Most of them accepted, Lucifer did not. Lucifer's trial is ongoing but because of the time shift the trial that will take 3 days in the higher level will take 3,000 years of earth time so they are 2/3rds of the way through it.

The devil has been removed from his position on the earth but he cannot be removed from the planet. The reason is because the earth and every lifeform that has ever existed on the earth is on the devil's timeline.

 

[Father]

Heaven is God's central focus with paradise. Paradise is where ascended beings live. There are many levels between the earth and heaven and time is shifted from level to level so, as you ascend time gets longer. Things happen in the universe at super speed, higher up the levels you go things happen much slower. The ratio is about 1,000 days on the earth equals 1 day in the higher levels.

When the word heaven is used in the bible the primitive humans never understood the levels between the earth and heaven. Angels do not come from heaven, they are formed in the levels between earth and heaven, so, angels do not know God. They only know what they are told by other angels.

Lucifer was a high level angel and administrator for this universe. He began a rebellion BEFORE adam and eve were on the earth. Other angels on the earth, the devil and Satan and Beelzebub, tried to secede the earth from Jesus control. Certain things that were supposed to happen did not happen. Adam and Eve failed in what they were supposed to do, partly because of their own actions and partly because of the actions of rebel angels.

Jesus allowed the rebellion to continue until every angel chose a side. Jesus had to come to the earth to live as a human to know what it is like but once He finished His earthly mission He ascended and had all rebel angels arrested. Jesus offered mercy to any rebel angel with the loss of position. Most of them accepted, Lucifer did not. Lucifer's trial is ongoing but because of the time shift the trial that will take 3 days in the higher level will take 3,000 years of earth time so they are 2/3rds of the way through it.

The devil has been removed from his position on the earth but he cannot be removed from the planet. The reason is because the earth and every lifeform that has ever existed on the earth is on the devil's timeline.

cool story. yet none of that is canon. it's all fanfiction.

 

[Super Universe]

cool story. yet none of that is canon. it's all fanfiction.

The catholics can't even figure out what their own books are really trying to say let alone any other book.

 

[Father]

The catholics can't even figure out what their own books are really trying to say let alone any other book.

that's the irony. they edited and put them together. if they being the editors cant even make it coherent you know your screwed

 

[Grandliseur]

Good evening. this is a discussion about the verse in the Old testament mentioning Lucifer by name.

the only verse stating Lucifer that I know of. or at least originally states him by name.

Isiah 14:12-17
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the highest.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

this holds some problems though. "I will ascend into heaven" he is already in heaven. the highest sphere of heaven. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" that does not really come across as ascending God just the stars who are sometimes referred to as Angels.
"I will also sit on the mount of the congregation" reinforcing the angels part.
"on the farthest sides of the north" Lucifer is referred to as Prince of the East. what does north have to do with anything?

"yet you shall be brought down to Sheol" Sheol is not Hell. the Jews don't believe in Hell. Sheol is where all dead go. it's not Good or Evil it's just a place in the ground where mortals go. Heaven at the time was just thought of as where God and Angels reside. so why would an Angel be thrown into the place of the Human Dead?

this verse itself. seems more like it is referring to a Human than a celestial being. and in fact probably a King at the time for not being Holy. we see this in the bible all the time. David. Solomon. it seems every king ends up screwing up and getting some verses about there screw ups until everyone forgets about it a few books later and mentions them as the most Holy.

the backing of this would be the original use of the word satan or devil. they are verbs not names first and foremost. meaning Adversary and accuser. but God in the old testament had many. anyone who went against him was considered an Adversary in the sense. and so the words satan and devil are left more so open as a title than a Name. there is a verse also

Numbers 22::21-39 " I won't list the full story just this part.
1 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his Donkey, and went with the princes of Moab.

22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his Donkey, and his two servants were with him."

"Angel of the Lord stood in the way for an Adversary against him."

An adversary in Hebrew being satan. as its a verb. why would the Christian Lucifer work on Gods behalf? unless again there is no Lucifer and the satan just means Adversary and can be designated to many.
if you use what most Christians love to throw at others "out of context" the entire story they use to back the existence of Lucifer the Seraph the Highest archangel the fallen one. is all out of context.

especially if you just look at the point I made about the Verse Isiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
if such is the case it sort of destroy's the entirty or atleast majorty of christanity. there is no Adversary to fight. other than needing Jesus for the way. revelations is uneeded. as everything is just in occordance and allowed by the Abrahamic God.

I mean I love the character Lucifer as a character its very interesting I would advise if you have time to read the Comic Lucifer by DC and Vertigo it's quite good.

but everything I see historically and contextually wise goes against him being a biblical character other than the new testament where the story is a bit more intertwined.

Your thoughts on this?

If you look at your own quote, you will find this, "

Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
"​

Satan is not human, nor a man; therefore the scripture portion cannot refer to satan. Having said that, I will say that much said about this person applies to satan. Since so many have got this wrong, the name Lucifer, and who it applies to, there is no reason to fight it. Even scripture calls satan, an angel who transforms himself into an angel of light.

In this then, I do not mind the inaccuracies as long as accurate knowledge follows.

Satan and his angels are real.

 

[Father]

If you look at your own quote, you will find this, "

Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
"​

Satan is not human, nor a man; therefore the scripture portion cannot refer to satan. Having said that, I will say that much said about this person applies to satan. Since so many have got this wrong, the name Lucifer, and who it applies to, there is no reason to fight it. Even scripture calls satan, an angel who transforms himself into an angel of light.

In this then, I do not mind the inaccuracies as long as accurate knowledge follows.

Satan and his angels are real.

yet in Hebrew satan is a verb, not a name, and is applicable to many. also, show me the verse that he transformed himself into an angel of light. and if its new testament doesn't mention it. this is speaking of the old testament and so only Judaism applies if we are speaking of scripture from it

 

[blü 2]

the only verse stating Lucifer that I know of. or at least originally states him by name.

Isiah 14:12-17
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,

If you read Isaiah 14, you'll see that the passage you quote is preceded by these words:

4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon.
​

So it's a personal taunt against a real but fallen enemy, Nebuchadnezzar or Nabonidus perhaps.

The part which is translated as 'Lucifer' in the KJV is translating Hebrew words that mean 'star of the morning, son of the dawn' (rendered 'Day Star, son of Dawn' in my RSV).

This is obviously the Morning Star, the planet Venus in its morning appearance, called in Latin 'Lucifer' ie 'bringer of light' and in Greek φωσφόρος 'phospheros' with the same meaning (but in the Septuagint, as ἑωσφόρος 'heosphoros', 'bringer of morning').

The link with the devil, via the Isaiah quote, may have first been used by St Jerome in the 4th century, but that means he didn't read Isaiah 14:4 carefully.

So, no matter what the KJV and Milton said, Isaiah 14 is about the politics of its day and not about the fall of the Devil.

 

[Grandliseur]

yet in Hebrew satan is a verb, not a name, and is applicable to many. also, show me the verse that he transformed himself into an angel of light. and if its new testament doesn't mention it. this is speaking of the old testament and so only Judaism applies if we are speaking of scripture from it

As you say, correctly, the word satan may be applied to many, just like the word Messiah. However, in scripture, the usage is very limited.

The angel of light scripture is from Paul:

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.​

Since Paul was highly educated in the Jewish views of 2000 years ago, they should not be discounted just because you are quoting the OT.

Acts 22:3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.​

However, my point was that the section spoken of -- itself said Lucifer was a man; so, I do not quite understand your objection. This section cannot directly speak to the subject of the devil; though, as I mentioned, it fits a little too nicely to dismiss out of hand. I also stated that once it was understood that the reference was to a man and not to an angel, I didn't mind applying it to the devil.

this is speaking of the old testament and so only Judaism applies if we are speaking of scripture from it

What is this claim? This makes no sense. All of the NT is based on the OT. It is part of the Christian beliefs; I speak as a Christian. Thus, I use the entire Bible.

 

[osgart]

Ezekiel ch. 28 refers to the anointed cherub. and the fall and becoming of that high ranking angel. by deduction it has to be Lucifer. and this cherub has a certain fate because of its iniquity.

I think it's quite clear that there in the bible, not the tanakh, that their is a great adversary, but more then that, an enemy of God and forever so.

if Lucifer were just an adversary that would make for an interesting angel. but the anointed cherub is contrary to God and one who is to be destroyed forever because it lacks all justice and is dead set against justice.

I believe also in Job I think , leviathan at the bottom of the sea has a heart of stone.

when I was young I used to think of devils as equal to angels, only they defended truth differently. angels defended with good, and devils defended with bad.

now I don't buy into any of it. but it is interesting. the stories are worthy. however one might take them.

 

[Ingledsva]

Good evening. this is a discussion about the verse in the Old testament mentioning Lucifer by name.

the only verse stating Lucifer that I know of. or at least originally states him by name.

Isiah 14:12-17
“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the highest.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

“Those who see you will gaze at you,
And consider you, saying:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
Who shook kingdoms,
Who made the world as a wilderness
And destroyed its cities,
Who did not open the house of his prisoners?’

this holds some problems though. "I will ascend into heaven" he is already in heaven. the highest sphere of heaven. "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" that does not really come across as ascending God just the stars who are sometimes referred to as Angels.
"I will also sit on the mount of the congregation" reinforcing the angels part.
"on the farthest sides of the north" Lucifer is referred to as Prince of the East. what does north have to do with anything?

"yet you shall be brought down to Sheol" Sheol is not Hell. the Jews don't believe in Hell. Sheol is where all dead go. it's not Good or Evil it's just a place in the ground where mortals go. Heaven at the time was just thought of as where God and Angels reside. so why would an Angel be thrown into the place of the Human Dead?

this verse itself. seems more like it is referring to a Human than a celestial being. and in fact probably a King at the time for not being Holy. we see this in the bible all the time. David. Solomon. it seems every king ends up screwing up and getting some verses about there screw ups until everyone forgets about it a few books later and mentions them as the most Holy.

the backing of this would be the original use of the word satan or devil. they are verbs not names first and foremost. meaning Adversary and accuser. but God in the old testament had many. anyone who went against him was considered an Adversary in the sense. and so the words satan and devil are left more so open as a title than a Name. there is a verse also

Numbers 22::21-39 " I won't list the full story just this part.
1 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his Donkey, and went with the princes of Moab.

22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his Donkey, and his two servants were with him."

"Angel of the Lord stood in the way for an Adversary against him."

An adversary in Hebrew being satan. as its a verb. why would the Christian Lucifer work on Gods behalf? unless again there is no Lucifer and the satan just means Adversary and can be designated to many.
if you use what most Christians love to throw at others "out of context" the entire story they use to back the existence of Lucifer the Seraph the Highest archangel the fallen one. is all out of context.

especially if you just look at the point I made about the Verse Isiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
if such is the case it sort of destroy's the entirty or atleast majorty of christanity. there is no Adversary to fight. other than needing Jesus for the way. revelations is uneeded. as everything is just in occordance and allowed by the Abrahamic God.

I mean I love the character Lucifer as a character its very interesting I would advise if you have time to read the Comic Lucifer by DC and Vertigo it's quite good.

but everything I see historically and contextually wise goes against him being a biblical character other than the new testament where the story is a bit more intertwined.

Your thoughts on this?

You are correct - Isaiah 14 is actually about a human. The king of Babylon.

There is actually no name Lucifer in that text.

Isaiah is talking about a fallen Babylonian King.

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor failed! the golden city failed!

Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the scepter of the rulers.

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven (a height), O Bright rising star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven (the heights), I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to Sheol/grave, to the sides of the pit.

Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Isa 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

Isa 14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

Isa 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; a carcass trodden under feet.

*

 

[Jedster]

@Father
FWIW, I looked it up in the Hebrew and the word Lucifer is not there.

12How have you fallen from heaven, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations. יבאֵ֛יךְ נָפַ֥לְתָּ מִשָּׁמַ֖יִם הֵילֵ֣ל בֶּן־שָּׁ֑חַר נִגְדַּ֣עְתָּ לָאָ֔רֶץ חוֹלֵ֖שׁ עַל־גּוֹיִֽם:

Yeshayahu - Isaiah - Chapter 14

 

[Ingledsva]

You are forgetting that Satan goes by many names. Lucifer was his angelic name. Here is a list of some of his other names and titles.

Names for the DEVIL

This list left out several, one glaring omission is the King of Tyre which was another title Satan held.

There is no name Lucifer in Tanakh. Someone translated hêylêl into Lucifer.

Hêylêl means the bright rising morning star.

KJV - Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

--------Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from (a height), O Bright rising star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

No Satan - a King of Babylon.

*

 

[Jedster]

There is no name Lucifer in Tanakh. Someone translated hêylêl into Lucifer.

Hêylêl means the bright rising morning star.

KJV - Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

--------Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from (a height), O Bright rising star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

No Satan - a King of Babylon.

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Hey, I beat you to it...

 

[Ingledsva]

Is this a story you wrote for entertainment?

First, God created Adam out of the dust of the earth. Did God create him and then take him to heaven?

Second, God planted a TREE, wheat doesn't grow on a tree, you know that, right? So an apple can't make one fall from grace, but something that looks like wheat can?

Third, God created Eve out of Adams rib, and they were together since, nor record of them being separated. Where do you get they were separated for 40 years?

Fourth, to be in heaven, one must have a spiritual body, flesh and blood can not exist in heaven. How does a spirit defecate? Do spirits even eat?

Actually it doesn't say Eve was created from Adam's rib.

Adam means humanbeing. Genesis tells us Adam was created in the image of the Elohiym - male and female.

Thus we have Jewish stories of the first human being half male and half female, and having to be split apart to procreate. That word for "rib" means a half. A half was taken from the double whole - creating separate male and female.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make adam(humankind) in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 1:27 So God created adam(humankind) in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

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[Ingledsva]

Hey, I beat you to it...

I did put it in # 34.

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[Jedster]

I did put it in # 34.

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So you did, I blame it i on lack of short term memory. My bad