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Luciferianism

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
I believe in magick. It's very subtle. Magick isn't about fireballs and stuff. It's about using your will to make things happen.
 
*stumbles in blindly*

Allo!

Danisty, did you at one point practice Wicca or Witchcraft? ( I ask because your answer really Jives with those two groups.)

Secondly, since I dove right in and all, I was wondering, isn't lucifer an entrily different figure then satan (in pagan mythology vs. Christian mythology) So why is it considered close to Satanism?

I mean to say which Lucifer is followed? The pagan one who was a light-bringer, and then tried to overturn some other god? (My pagan mythos is very limited.) Or the Fallen Angel?

Thanks for your time, Sorry If I missed it somewhere else.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Danisty, did you at one point practice Wicca or Witchcraft? ( I ask because your answer really Jives with those two groups.)
No, but I have read a great deal about it. This actually seems to be the idea of magick that a lot of groups use.

Secondly, since I dove right in and all, I was wondering, isn't lucifer an entrily different figure then satan (in pagan mythology vs. Christian mythology) So why is it considered close to Satanism?
Basically because we get stuck with it...lol. To me, Lucifer and Satan are not the same, but for most people, they are similar enough to put is in the same category with Satanists.

I mean to say which Lucifer is followed? The pagan one who was a light-bringer, and then tried to overturn some other god? (My pagan mythos is very limited.) Or the Fallen Angel?
Both. This is how we see the Fallen Angel...as the lightbringer. There's no need to separate them. As far as I'm concerned, Lucifer is simply misunderstood in Christianity.

Thanks for your time, Sorry If I missed it somewhere else.
No problem. Ask any questions you want.
 
Umm...since you asked...but be forewarned. I ask ALOT of questions, I realize that neither of you might be a Luciferian priest, and may not know some of these, but I was curious. Since you seem to follow the happy medium of both, what are your views on this:

" It is noted that the Old Testament itself does not actually contain a literal account of the rebellion and fall of Satan*. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are directly concerned with the temporal rulers of Babylon and Tyre, rather than a supernatural being.** "
(Wikipedia)

In plain ol' english:

The old testement doesn't actually speak of the rebellion and fall of Lucifer, and scholars today believe that it was referring to the Kings of Babylon and Tyre, during their respective falls from the throne at that time. ***

Also I would like your views on this:

The four crown princes of Hell
Lucifer has been acknowledged by the Satanic Bible as one of the Four Crown Princes of Hell, particularly that of the East. Lord of the Air, Lucifer has been named "Bringer of light, The morning star, Intellectualism, Enlightenment."

(Also taken from Wikipedia. Your views?)

Thanks for your time!



-{NOTES}-
* - Remember, the word Satan in hebrew means "Adversary" so in this context its referring to Lucifer.
**- Actually we don't know this, since the catholic church felt like it could leave certain books out of the bible. Then protestants left EVEN more out. So maybe more references are in these books? not having read them I cannot tell you.
***- One more thing, it is also believed that alot of the references in the bible were part of some feud between one of the translators and a Catholic priest who spoke out against an Aryan massacre (???) and was named Lucifer ( I doubt this, but was wondering your views on it.)
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Umm...since you asked...but be forewarned. I ask ALOT of questions, I realize that neither of you might be a Luciferian priest, and may not know some of these, but I was curious. Since you seem to follow the happy medium of both, what are your views on this:
I'm not really sure if you could call anyone a Luciferian priest...or maybe all Luciferians are priests? There isn't really any organization to it.

" It is noted that the Old Testament itself does not actually contain a literal account of the rebellion and fall of Satan*. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are directly concerned with the temporal rulers of Babylon and Tyre, rather than a supernatural being.** "
(Wikipedia)

In plain ol' english:

The old testement doesn't actually speak of the rebellion and fall of Lucifer, and scholars today believe that it was referring to the Kings of Babylon and Tyre, during their respective falls from the throne at that time. ***
Luciferianism isn't so much rooted in quote from Isaiah. Are you familiar with Gnosticism? It's very similar to a lot of Gnostic ideas, especially concerned the Garden of Eden. Lucifer has long been associated with the serpent. We believe that also, but the serpent is not the villain. The serpent gave us the gift of knowledge and freed us from the prison that was the Garden of Eden. So, while Lucifer is only mentioned in Isaiah, that quote really doesn't have much to do with Luciferianism.


The four crown princes of Hell
Lucifer has been acknowledged by the Satanic Bible as one of the Four Crown Princes of Hell, particularly that of the East. Lord of the Air, Lucifer has been named "Bringer of light, The morning star, Intellectualism, Enlightenment."
Well, LaVey had a decent grasp on a lot of things. My problem with Satanism was only the execution of those ideas. I'm not sure why Lucifer is the prince of air in general, but the east makes sense since that's where the sun rises, and where you will see the morningstar.


One more thing, it is also believed that alot of the references in the bible were part of some feud between one of the translators and a Catholic priest who spoke out against an Aryan massacre (???) and was named Lucifer ( I doubt this, but was wondering your views on it.)
I'm not sure how much that affects the bible (since it isn't my sole reference for Luciferianism, it really doesn't matter much to me if it does color the way the passages were written or not), but I have heard of this Lucifer. His name was Lucifer Calaritanus and he's a Catholic Saint. Perhaps a Catholic could give you more information.
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I believe in magick. It's very subtle. Magick isn't about fireballs and stuff. It's about using your will to make things happen.

That is a relief. Fireballs are too grandiose for me to even consider.

" It is noted that the Old Testament itself does not actually contain a literal account of the rebellion and fall of Satan*. Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 are directly concerned with the temporal rulers of Babylon and Tyre, rather than a supernatural being.** "

I was actually having this debate with my Christian Father a couple of nights ago. Lucifer, in Isaiah, is the Latin word meaning light-bearer. The Hebrew word is Heylel and is not a personal noun.
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
How did the two of you, Ðanisty and morning-star, become Luciferians? Is there any sort of Luciferian group you joined? Is there any special text you have read?
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
How did the two of you, Ðanisty and morning-star, become Luciferians? Is there any sort of Luciferian group you joined? Is there any special text you have read?
There aren't really any texts and while there are some groups, there is nothing organized. I think most people become Luciferian and then join a group if they want to...not the other way around. I honestly just formulated my own ideas about Lucifer and went from there. I pretty much invented it myself and then later found out that others had done the same thing. When I first started, there weren't even any Luciferian websites.

As far as texts go, the bible and the gnostic texts are very useful as well as general research into Egyptian, Greek, and Sumerian mythology.
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
There aren't really any texts and while there are some groups, there is nothing organized. I think most people become Luciferian and then join a group if they want to...not the other way around. I honestly just formulated my own ideas about Lucifer and went from there. I pretty much invented it myself and then later found out that others had done the same thing. When I first started, there weren't even any Luciferian websites.

Are the Luciferian web sites of much help?

As far as texts go, the bible and the gnostic texts are very useful as well as general research into Egyptian, Greek, and Sumerian mythology.

Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. :p
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
Actually, I kinda like the thought of satanism. It's just the magic and all that which puts me off.
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
Are the Luciferian web sites of much help?
Not really because there are so many different ideas on Luciferianism. I haven't found any particularly good sites.

Actually, I kinda like the thought of satanism. It's just the magic and all that which puts me off.
Okay, well, we aren't talking about Satanism in this thread, but I'm willing to bet that what you think of when you think of magic is nothing like what Satanists practice. They don't believe in fireballs and crazy stuff like that. For instance, some of the rituals are designed simply to satisfy the need to do something about an impossible situation and just letting whatever happens happen.
 

BFD_Zayl

Well-Known Member
Ðanisty;790599 said:
Okay, well, we aren't talking about Satanism in this thread, but I'm willing to bet that what you think of when you think of magic is nothing like what Satanists practice. They don't believe in fireballs and crazy stuff like that. For instance, some of the rituals are designed simply to satisfy the need to do something about an impossible situation and just letting whatever happens happen.
much like praying, just more...interactive.
 

lombas

Society of Brethren
Ðanisty;790599 said:
Okay, well, we aren't talking about Satanism in this thread, but I'm willing to bet that what you think of when you think of magic is nothing like what Satanists practice. They don't believe in fireballs and crazy stuff like that. For instance, some of the rituals are designed simply to satisfy the need to do something about an impossible situation and just letting whatever happens happen.


I thought at least a substantial part of those who consider themselves lucifarian also call themselves satanists. What the magic's concerned, I have two friends who are deeply involved in those things, so I am aware I won't wake up as a rabbit tomorrow.
 

morning-star

Light Bearer
Do you believe in magickal powers? If so, are they flagrant powers, such as bright pulses of energy, or more subtle powers, such as curses?

personaly i believe in more stuble powers. I also believe in psychic develpoment and the power of the mind.


How did the two of you, Ðanisty and morning-star, become Luciferians? Is there any sort of Luciferian group you joined? Is there any special text you have read?




I started of looking at all sorts of different faiths; I then started to go into Satanism ect. But every time I thought about it I always saw Lucifer and Satan as deferent entities and I was unsure why. So I started to look deeper into it and I stumbled across a luciferian webpage and something just clicked suddenly all theses experiences and theories bussing around in my head made sense. From then on I started to trust my own instincts and feelings and continued to learn as much as I can. I cant exsplain why but its like this way of life was with me all along I just had to find and understand what it all really meant.

Are the Luciferian web sites of much help?



It depends on what you are looking for. It can be good to see other peoples views on luciferianism, but at the end of the day you find the truths within yourself.

 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
I thought at least a substantial part of those who consider themselves lucifarian also call themselves satanists. What the magic's concerned, I have two friends who are deeply involved in those things, so I am aware I won't wake up as a rabbit tomorrow.
I don't know any Luciferians who call themselves Satanists. Where did you hear this?
 

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I started of looking at all sorts of different faiths; I then started to go into Satanism ect. But every time I thought about it I always saw Lucifer and Satan as deferent entities and I was unsure why. So I started to look deeper into it and I stumbled across a luciferian webpage and something just clicked suddenly all theses experiences and theories bussing around in my head made sense. From then on I started to trust my own instincts and feelings and continued to learn as much as I can. I cant exsplain why but its like this way of life was with me all along I just had to find and understand what it all really meant.
It depends on what you are looking for. It can be good to see other peoples views on luciferianism, but at the end of the day you find the truths within yourself.
As I believe in a perfervid Individualism, I understand the necessity of finding your own truths.

I thought at least a substantial part of those who consider themselves lucifarian also call themselves satanists
This would be like a person calling himself a Catholic and a Protestant. However, I am unsure how much Satanism and Luciferianism differ; it might not be an accurate comparison, but you get the idea.
 

morning-star

Light Bearer
for starters since a lot of satansists believe in the concept of the power of 'the lord of' darkness blah blah and lucifeirans believe in light I don't see you they can be classed as the same thing.....
 
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