Luciferianism

[Darkness]

for starters since a lot of satansists believe in the concept of the power of 'the lord of' darkness blah blah and lucifeirans believe in light I don't see you they can be classed as the same thing.....

That is merely playing around with Semantics. The Satanic idea of Darkness is different from the Luciferian idea of Darkness. Darkness to a Satanist (I hope Setians are Satanists because I got this from them) is individuality and creativity. To a Luciferian, as far as I know, it is representative of ignorance.

I chose the name "Darkness" because of my yearning for individuality and creativity (even though I am not a Satanist). I could have chosen Lightness but that would have been lame.

 

[lombas]

I don't know any Luciferians who call themselves Satanists. Where did you hear this?

Wikipedia.

 

[Ðanisty]

Wikipedia.

Not always a reliable source. Remember that anyone can add to wiki articles.

 

[lombas]

Could be. Still, seems plausible. Should check those two friends about it.

 

[Ðanisty]

Huh? What do you mean?

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I'm more inclined to trust the person who's a Luciferian on what they refer to themselves as.

 

[lombas]

Huh? What do you mean?

The "Luciferian Manifesto" puts it this way:

A Luciferian may or may not believe in and/or worship Lucifer as a spiritual being, deity or father god. A Luciferian may be purely philosophical regarding the principles symbolically embodied in Lucifer as knowledge, wisdom, and light. Regardless of personal belief, all Luciferians advocate intellectual individualization over mass conformity, and are thereby free to choose that which works best for them.

Regardless of the fact that I see something of LaVey's philosophy in this (and the text in general), doesn't it say that the Luciferian philosophy does not endorse any "identity" as such? Which would explain why Wikipedia mentions the aforesaid.

 

[Ðanisty]

The "Luciferian Manifesto" puts it this way:



Regardless of the fact that I see something of LaVey's philosophy in this (and the text in general), doesn't it say that the Luciferian philosophy does not endorse any "identity" as such? Which would explain why Wikipedia mentions the aforesaid.

First of all, not every Luciferian even believes in that "Manifesto." It's just something that one group of Luciferians wrote down. There is no organization to Luciferianism. Some people choose to form groups, some to do not. So, whatever you read about Luciferianism on the net or anywhere else, it does not necessarily apply to all Luciferians. Even so, that manifesto says nothing about Satanism.

Second of all, LaVey himself got most of his ideas from other sources. Simply because Luciferians come in a few varieties does not make them Satanists. Hell, Christians come in more than a few varieties and that doesn't make Christians Satanists nor does it make Satanists Christians. The logic you're using here seems, well, kind of absurd.

What do you mean by this statement:

doesn't it say that the Luciferian philosophy does not endorse any "identity" as such?

If this is something you read, it would make a lot more sense in context.

 

[Darkness]

Ðanisty, you are an ex-Satanist, are you not? Perhaps you could help clear up the confusion by listing a couple of points where Satanists do not believe the same as Luciferians.

 

[lombas]

First of all, not every Luciferian even believes in that "Manifesto." It's just something that one group of Luciferians wrote down. There is no organization to Luciferianism. Some people choose to form groups, some to do not. So, whatever you read about Luciferianism on the net or anywhere else, it does not necessarily apply to all Luciferians. Even so, that manifesto says nothing about Satanism.

Second of all, LaVey himself got most of his ideas from other sources. Simply because Luciferians come in a few varieties does not make them Satanists. Hell, Christians come in more than a few varieties and that doesn't make Christians Satanists nor does it make Satanists Christians. The logic you're using here seems, well, kind of absurd.

What do you mean by this statement:
If this is something you read, it would make a lot more sense in context.

I'm not trying to "disagree" with you on something or prove anything, I'm just trying to understand how you offer a clear understanding of what Luciferianism is, if you say beforehand that it isn't based on a common identity ("So, whatever you read about Luciferianism on the net or anywhere else, it does not necessarily apply to all Luciferians.").

 

[Ðanisty]

Ah, I'm sure we have one or two threads about this already. Maybe these threads will help:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38882
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40518
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47088

The primary difference between Satanism and Luciferianism is the focus. Satanists are much more focused on the "here and now" whereas Luciferianism tend to look forward a bit more. We're less concerned with rebellion, carnal satisfaction, revenge, etc. It's not that we have no interest in these things, but they aren't as important as freedom, independence, learning and expanding our minds, etc. As a whole, I'd say we're more academic and intellectual.

 

[lombas]

Right, thanks, that's what I was looking for.

 

[Ðanisty]

You're welcome.

 

[Darkness]

All right, after reading through all the posts linked, I want to make a few observations. (I hope that is not in violation of the forums rules -- bringing back old threads)

Firstly, I am constantly amazed at how persons following Abrahamic religions can view YHWH of the Old Testament as a good God. YHWH is an evil, closed-minded, control freak, who demands strict obedience or else he will smite you. He led the Israelis into countless slaughters against those who have opposed his will, even going as far as ordering the deaths of the children and animals of those who dared to oppose him. He punishes a servant for merely trying to stop His Holy Ark from falling over. You get the idea. (I have issues with YHWH, being an ex-Christian, and I tend to rant. -- My apologies)

From what I gather Lucifer disobeyed God and took the form of a Serpent to free Adam and Eve from their prison of ignorance. Lucifer risked everything to enlighten mankind - very admirable. Maybe Lucifer wanted to wear his hair a different way or in a different colour than all the other angels. If Lucifer represents individuality with freedom while remaining "morally righteous," I have to admire his character, even if I do not believe he exists.

Creativity, individuality, knowledge are all things I greatly admire. Respect others rights to individuality, to freedom. Do not infringe upon these rights. If a guy wants to kiss another guy, what is that to you? How will it hurt your ability to exercise your own free rights. How will it restrict you from kissing however you want?

 

[morning-star]

That is merely playing around with Semantics. The Satanic idea of Darkness is different from the Luciferian idea of Darkness. Darkness to a Satanist (I hope Setians are Satanists because I got this from them) is individuality and creativity. To a Luciferian, as far as I know, it is representative of ignorance.

I chose the name "Darkness" because of my yearning for individuality and creativity (even though I am not a Satanist). I could have chosen Lightness but that would have been lame.

Iv'e spoken to setians that call themseves Luciferians ....

it also depends as there are many diffrent forms of satanism, i disagree with there belief in revenge, carnal desires, etc. i find the focus too much on the marerial items.

Creativity, individuality, knowledge are all things I greatly admire. Respect others rights to individuality, to freedom. Do not infringe upon these rights. If a guy wants to kiss another guy, what is that to you? How will it hurt your ability to exercise your own free rights. How will it restrict you from kissing however you want?

I have to agree with this a 100% everyone has the right to belive what they want and live the lifestyle they want as long as there not harming anyone i don't see why anyone should disagree, and ridicule them for it.

(look like i missed a lot one here >.< but its all very intresting)

isn't based on a common identity

*looks a little confused *

i don't really understand waht your trying to say. identity and views is down to the ,its individual, also a matter of if the individual feels the need to join a luciferian order or needs to be part of a bigger group, or to find the path on there own....

 

[Darkness]

Iv'e spoken to setians that call themseves Luciferians ....

Perhaps it is best to call them neither Satanists nor Luciferians but simply Setians.

it also depends as there are many diffrent forms of satanism, i disagree with there belief in revenge, carnal desires, etc. i find the focus too much on the marerial items.

We should not forget the importance of revenge, carnal desires etc., yet we should not let them consume us. In certain situations it may be rational to forget about revenge. It may be wise to let go of carnal desires for a time. I disagree, as well, with their "might makes right" philosophy. It is a very simply ideology which does not sit very well with me.

I have to agree with this a 100&#37; everyone has the right to belive what they want and live the lifestyle they want as long as there not harming anyone i don't see why anyone should disagree, and ridicule them for it.

I am glad you see the wisdom in this.

 

[Ðanisty]

Iv'e spoken to setians that call themseves Luciferians ....

Yeah, that just doesn't make any sense...especially since Setians have the most issues with us Luciferians. Overall, they tend to hate us.

 

[Darkness]

Do you know of the reasons why the Setians hate you, Luciferians?

It seems to me that Luciferianism is a very vague, ill defined concept. There appears to be a Luciferian "denomination" which is very similar to Satanism and then there is the Luciferian "denomination" (Ðanisty and morning-star are disciples of this "denomination") which is quite different from the other. Am I wrong in my observations?

 

[Ðanisty]

Do you know of the reasons why the Setians hate you, Luciferians?

It seems to me that Luciferianism is a very vague, ill defined concept. There appears to be a Luciferian "denomination" which is very similar to Satanism and then there is the Luciferian "denomination" (Ðanisty and morning-star are disciples of this "denomination") which is quite different from the other. Am I wrong in my observations?

Actually, that's precisely why they seem to hate us. Their entire take on it is that we basically don't exist and we should accept that.

 

[morning-star]

I never have anything to do with setians so I can't really say.....