Magical Humanitarianism

[Theweirdtophat]

I always thought it would be nice if there groups, whether they were druidic, Christian jewish, wiccan ect. to use magic to help others. There's magical orders but I see them mostly use magic for themselves and sometimes for their family, but why not go further and use it to help multiple people. I mean if you have the power to help, there's no reason not to help others. Whether it involves healing through plants, crystals, stones or banishing negativity, or whatever. Perhaps these groups can also come together and help humanity through magical means.

I was wondering if anyone agrees to this. I just think it'd be nice if orders got together and helped enchant peoples lives, and bless and heal and protect people.

 

[dannerz]

Saving someone from evil forces puts you on the hit list fast.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

What "hit list" do you speak of? Besides people have done it, whether it was ritually purifying someone, doing exorcisms or banishing negative forces. Why would that be a bad thing?

 

[Willamena]

I always thought it would be nice if there groups, whether they were druidic, Christian jewish, wiccan ect. to use magic to help others. There's magical orders but I see them mostly use magic for themselves and sometimes for their family, but why not go further and use it to help multiple people. I mean if you have the power to help, there's no reason not to help others. Whether it involves healing through plants, crystals, stones or banishing negativity, or whatever. Perhaps these groups can also come together and help humanity through magical means.

I was wondering if anyone agrees to this. I just think it'd be nice if orders got together and helped enchant peoples lives, and bless and heal and protect people.

Magic comes with a price.

 

[dannerz]

The hit list, a figure of speech. All kinds of forces see humans as either food or enemies, etc. And it should be up to the human individuals to develop their own defense and energy. You`re talking about gifted people taking on other people`s responsibilities, taking on their diseases, etc. Most human problems are human caused, too.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Yes I know everything comes with a price, so to speak, but of course if you want good things to happen to you, you have to be good. Magic doesn't cost you your sanity or mind or anything unless you irresponsibly use it.

I understand but that's why you protect yourself as well. Not all forces see humans as enemies and some even help and protect them. I don't see any reason why they can't heal others. Obviously people have healed others and they were fine. I don't see why orders couldn't help others either.

 

[Quintessence]

If others want to engage in humanitarian efforts by whatever means they deem fit, they may do what they will. It's doubtful one will have a hard time finding plenty of starry-eyed, anthropocentric idealists to rally to such causes. Not being a starry-eyed, anthropocentric idealist, this one is disinterested.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

If others want to engage in humanitarian efforts by whatever means they deem fit, they may do what they will. It's doubtful one will have a hard time finding plenty of starry-eyed, anthropocentric idealists to rally to such causes. Not being a starry-eyed, anthropocentric idealist, this one is disinterested.

If you're disinterested it kind of begs the question as to why you even posted that comment in the first place... Also I don't see how this makes me anthropocentric. Do you believe it has anything to do with human supremacy, or are you just throwing words around?

Not really idealistic, so much as it is practical. You have magical orders and they do some stuff outside of the order. My point is they could be doing so much more.

 

[Quintessence]

If you're disinterested it kind of begs the question as to why you even posted that comment in the first place...

It's in the magic DIR, I practice spellcraft, this is a discussion forum, and I have some interest in discussing things?

Also I don't see how this makes me anthropocentric. Do you believe it has anything to do with human supremacy, or are you just throwing words around?

I didn't say you were anthropocentric; I have no interest in making this discussion personal. What I intended to imply is that humanitarian efforts are always, by their very nature, anthropocentric. They serve humans. They don't serve the rest of the world, or when they do, they do so only insofar as aiding the non-human world helps humans. There's nothing wrong with this, but it's still anthropocentrism.

If you'd suggested putting together a group that serves more than just humans the effort wouldn't be anthropocentric. IMHO, the non-human world needs a heck of a lot more attention than the human world right now.

Not really idealistic, so much as it is practical. You have magical orders and they do some stuff outside of the order. My point is they could be doing so much more.

It can be both practical and idealistic. I mean, really - the notion that you can "fix" humans takes more than a little bit of idealism. It can also be practical, insofar as it stems from survivalism.

It is perhaps worth noting that avoidance to meddling in the affairs of others is a common idea amongst practitioners of spellcraft. The typical form I see this take invokes free will, and the supposed violating of it that goes on by giving help when it is not asked for. There are other reasons why solitary or organized practitioners might be averse to such things as well, but as I said, there will inevitably be plenty of idealists willing to do what you suggest. They seem particularly common amongst the New Age demographic, though many of them might not describe what they do as magic/spellcraft, exactly.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Perhaps but by helping people, it can also help the earth as well. Not even just helping the people by curing them of their ills but also teaching them this stuff. Naturally wouldn't they want to learn something like if it was able to help them? Basically they tell their friends, and they tell their friends and so on. and pretty soon you have people that only help people but the Earth itself. Sometimes people who are aware of this have a better connection with life and realize how important it is. Magic is sometimes used to have a better connection with nature, such as the magic I practice.

 

[1137]

Magic alone can only ever effect the magician, it can't itself be used for the good of others. The individual may do this with the aid of magic, but as a practice of the psyche magic doesn't leave the mind, and when it does it's action.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Magic alone can only ever effect the magician, it can't itself be used for the good of others. The individual may do this with the aid of magic, but as a practice of the psyche magic doesn't leave the mind, and when it does it's action.

Magic can heal others well enough. Otherwise people wouldn't be using healing crystals or chants. Magic can be used for helping yourself and others.

 

[1137]

Magic can heal others well enough. Otherwise people wouldn't be using healing crystals or chants. Magic can be used for helping yourself and others.

Magic can help others in the sense that your will is to help others and you then achieve that. However, simply praying or using crystals or whatever wouldn't exactly be your magic, your magic would simply be helping. Instead it would be their belief, their magic, that would heal themselves. So you can aid people in this way but really it's them who helps themselves. Of course this changes a bit when we get to medication, though I suppose it was still the individual's will to seek help in the first place.

 

[Iti oj]

I don't think magic works that way. The best I can do is teach.

 

[Quintessence]

Magic can help others in the sense that your will is to help others and you then achieve that. However, simply praying or using crystals or whatever wouldn't exactly be your magic, your magic would simply be helping. Instead it would be their belief, their magic, that would heal themselves. So you can aid people in this way but really it's them who helps themselves. Of course this changes a bit when we get to medication, though I suppose it was still the individual's will to seek help in the first place.

All of this depends on your point of view and what you believe about how spellcraft works. It is widely believed, probably by the majority of practitioners, that spellcraft can be used to affect things external to the caster. That is to say, it can be used to influence more than merely the psyche of the caster, or by what you're suggesting here. You're one of the few practitioners I've encountered that believes spellcraft operates strictly through the mind of the caster. I value and appreciate that perspective, but I think it's worth recognizing that it's an uncommon one and that none of us really know how spellcraft works. Personally, I've had too many experiences that contradict your perspective to embrace it, but I would agree that spells that target you seem to be the most efficacious. That seeming bit is important, I think: we're always aware of ourselves, so we're going to be directly aware of the results of spells that targets ourselves. We don't have this awareness for spells that target externalities, so it might be a salience bias.

 

[1137]

I don't even think magicians should practice healing, that's what doctors are for. We should learn how one can best heal themselves and then teach others how to do so.

 

[Quintessence]

I don't even think magicians should practice healing, that's what doctors are for. We should learn how one can best heal themselves and then teach others how to do so.

I think it depends on what you're doing. If you're expecting crystal therapy to cure your cancer, I take some issue with that. I have no problem with things like Healing Touch therapy and other energy work to supplement modern approaches.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I don't even think magicians should practice healing, that's what doctors are for. We should learn how one can best heal themselves and then teach others how to do so.

So it's not that they can't heal, so much as you think that they shouldn't heal? Most magic users know how to heal themselves already. Doctors do a lot but there are some things crystal or gem workers can do that doctors can't do and vice versa. Both are needed really. Of course it's not just healing, but protection as well.

 

[1137]

So it's not that they can't heal, so much as you think that they shouldn't heal? Most magic users know how to heal themselves already. Doctors do a lot but there are some things crystal or gem workers can do that doctors can't do and vice versa. Both are needed really. Of course it's not just healing, but protection as well.

Actually I think fluffy practices like crystals should be illegal unless you're a trained psychologist. That's the kind of thing that leads bad places.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Actually I think fluffy practices like crystals should be illegal unless you're a trained psychologist. That's the kind of thing that leads bad places.

I really have no idea what you're talking about...Why is it considered "fluffy"? Crystals, candle healing, pyramid healing and so forth have been able to work for others. There's crystal workers I know that aren't psychologists and do fairly well. Not to mention there's many healing remedies with plants. I don't see why it should be illegal or what kind of "bad places" it leads to.