Making sense of the Pandemic

[dad]

The Bible was translated by men. What the Bible was translated from has been lost or altered. We have no way to know what Jesus originally said.

We do. Holy men of God died to confirm they had the record from Him. He promised to send His spirit to us to get it right. Any suggestion He messed up is foolish and unfounded speculation.

What I do know, or what is my opinion, is what Jesus is saying in the Bible is not enough to get someone crucified. I think Jesus was probably saying something like you don't need to go to church for your salvation. Something big that was causing him to be noticed by the people in power.

No, you do not know that. He was killed unjustly, not for anything He said wrong.

You should read the Dead Sea scrolls. It's a much more accurate representation of the Jewish mind at the time:

Is the idea of having a "chosen people" detrimental to the World



Nobody knows what God is thinking. The mind of God is beyond any human's comprehension.

You have something in the scrolls you think is relevant here? Why did you not post it? As for a chosen people, yes we are precisely that. Regardless of what the world thinks. They don't get a vote.

There is some very good evidence the gospel was written by the Romans. Consider the following passages:

Matt.5 Verses 38 to 48, Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: [39] But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Romans 13:1 "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God and those which exist are established by God."

Romans ruled the area. That does not mean they wrote Scripture.

What is the likelihood the most difficult people on the planet to govern are suddenly going to turn the other cheek, submit to their masters, and give to Caesar what is Caesar's. Not possible.

100%. They did. The ones who rejected Him did not. They had their city destroyed and temple burned and were scattered to the winds.

Of course since you are Kool-Aid drinking you will dismiss this evidence out of hand. The thing is it's very hard to argue with Atwill's argument with regards to the over 40 topological associations all in the SAME sequence and in the SAME locations between the two literally works compared in his study. The parallels are ASTOUNDING! The locations and sequence of Jesus travels through the Gospel line up with the military campaign of Titus Flavius as if Titus Flavius is implied to be the Jewish savior! The propaganda was designed to imply Titus Flavius was the son of God! The Romans were using religion to govern the people in an occupied land.

No more interesting than claiming a butterfly migration route is where Jesus got His idea of where to travel.
.

You are just upset because for over 200 years now science has been extremely successful in dispelling thousands of silly superstitions.

Not as busy as it has been creating thousands of whoppers and fables.

Do you honestly think slitting the throat of a goat is going to gain you favor with God? Come on now, be honest!

Man needed to realize that some sacrifice was needed. It all pointed to the Lamb of God that would die for us one day.

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This is why religion in on the decline and science is so popular.

Science is religion. It simply depends on the degree to which society falls in wickedness. Once advanced wickedness sets in, naturally other religions will be more popular than the truth.

It's people like you who refuse to accept the Bible is not literal truth. The Bible's message about morality is important is not to be taken out of the historical context in which it was written.

Jesus claiming He fulfilled prophesy and was God is not morals.

Your problem is you are an idol worship. You worship the words in the Bible like they are little idols. You are not promoting the teachings of Jesus. You are promoting fandom in Jesus. Jesus is just another idol for you. For you, the way to be "saved" is to join Jesus's fan club. I just don't think it works this way. I think the only way to achieve salvation is by getting forgiveness from the people you have sinned against. Just saying magic words or promoting fandom is meaningless.

I think it works the way He said.

You are obviously not someone who is capable of thinking for himself. I believe the truth about God comes from within.

God only comes in after we sincerely ask Him to. Until we do whatever we dredge up within will just be deeper sewer water.

I don't believe in other people's opinions who are pretending to speak for God. I believe absolute authority comes from within

Believe what you like, it doesn't. In fact, demon possession can result from too much of that sort of thing.

 

[dad]

You got nothing to show!
What a let down.

And then you wander off in to sexualities.

Shake extremism and it falls apart.

Ignoring ancient child sacrifices and that God told us not to murder does not mean there is nothing to show, only that you have something to ignore.

 

[dad]

When you,'re losing you lapse in to insults and verbal abuse.

Proper identification of claims is not abuse it is truth. Learn the dif.

You're letting yourself down, which doesn't worry me, but you're letting down what I think true Christianity is and that is wrong imo.

Jesus is Christianity. Anything else is a pipe dream.

 

[John53]

When you,'re losing you lapse in to insults and verbal abuse.
You're letting yourself down, which doesn't worry me, but you're letting down what I think true Christianity is and that is wrong imo.

It seems none of the extremist Christians follow the 2nd greatest commandment.

 

[oldbadger]

Ignoring ancient child sacrifices and that God told us not to murder does not mean there is nothing to show, only that you have something to ignore.

Jesus himself, his MAIN message, was MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE which sadly you don't really understand because you feel so sure that he sends destruction down in vengeance, exactly the opposite of his true objective, but children are born. Now God didn't mind the death of unborn fetuses and that I could show ......... you see I know something about the bible, but I'll bet you can't show that.

 

[oldbadger]

Proper identification of claims is not abuse it is truth. Learn the dif.

Jesus is Christianity. Anything else is a pipe dream.

Jesus was all about Mercy and not sacrifice. That's why he and the Immerser were redeeming folks and setting them off back home with their money still in their bags, cutting off the payouts to the temple. I know about the real Jesus.

Your very strange concoction of Jesus is the pipe dream.

And that's proven easily by this very thread 'Making Sense of the Pandemic...... where you think it's Jesus dishing out vengeance. Bah! Rubbish idea!
Jesus loved his people. So did the Immerser.

 

[oldbadger]

It seems none of the extremist Christians follow the 2nd greatest commandment.

Love your neighbour?
At any rate..... Love.
All you need is love.

I like 'Jesus is love' Christians. I take food and drink with them each week and enjoy them. They live their faith, and I can acknowledge their faith. And they let me be a Deist without insulting me. And they don't want a World of suffering, public execution, flogging and stoning...... Oh yes..... that's some Christian extremism, alright......

 

[Howard Is]

In Greek it means this

"to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins "

So it is more like turning around and going the other way. The bible does not use the word is a sense of merely choosing different paths to hell.

repent (v.)
c. 1300, "to feel such regret for sins or crimes as produces amendment of life," from Old French repentir (11c.), from re-, here probably an intensive prefix (see re-), + Vulgar Latin *penitire "to regret," from Latin poenitire "make sorry," from poena (see penal). The distinction between regret (q.v.) and repent is made in many modern languages, but the differentiation is not present in older periods. Also from c. 1300 in Middle English and after in an impersonal reflexive sense, especially as (it) repenteth (me, him, etc.).

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.[Genesis vi.6, KJV, 1611]
repent | Origin and meaning of repent by Online Etymology Dictionary

We were both wrong.
I assumed it was related to the same root as ‘penser’..to think..in French.

 

[dad]

Jesus himself, his MAIN message, was MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE which sadly you don't really understand because you feel so sure that he sends destruction down in vengeance, exactly the opposite of his true objective, but children are born. Now God didn't mind the death of unborn fetuses and that I could show ......... you see I know something about the bible, but I'll bet you can't show that.

His main message was to believe in Him as the only way and truth and life and salvation. He talked of the coming kingdom where He rules on earth also. There is no one even in wicked nations that could not ask and receive His free gift of eternal life if they wanted. There is no need for nations to be judged if they repented. However, God did have to deal with Pharoah to get him to let His people go. He had to deal with many kings and nations throughout history. That does not mean He did not love them and try to get them to come to Him. That only means they refused every time and went on to pose a danger to His people and plan of salvation for man. Then they had to be stopped.
Your idea that being loving means bending over and taking it up the rear from the wicked is in error.

 

[dad]

Jesus was all about Mercy and not sacrifice. That's why he and the Immerser were redeeming folks and setting them off back home with their money still in their bags, cutting off the payouts to the temple. I know about the real Jesus.

Your very strange concoction of Jesus is the pipe dream.

And that's proven easily by this very thread 'Making Sense of the Pandemic...... where you think it's Jesus dishing out vengeance. Bah! Rubbish idea!
Jesus loved his people. So did the Immerser.

I asked if this could be from God. You are the one claiming I said it was for sure. But there will come a time and possibly it started already, when the vicious demonic baby murderers and haters of all that is natural and good will be dealt with by God if they do not seriously repent.

 

[dad]

repent (v.)
c. 1300, "to feel such regret for sins or crimes as produces amendment of life," from Old French repentir (11c.), from re-, here probably an intensive prefix (see re-), + Vulgar Latin *penitire "to regret," from Latin poenitire "make sorry," from poena (see penal). The distinction between regret (q.v.) and repent is made in many modern languages, but the differentiation is not present in older periods. Also from c. 1300 in Middle English and after in an impersonal reflexive sense, especially as (it) repenteth (me, him, etc.).

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.[Genesis vi.6, KJV, 1611]
repent | Origin and meaning of repent by Online Etymology Dictionary

We were both wrong.
I assumed it was related to the same root as ‘penser’..to think..in French.

When God regretted something it was something good. Man was created good and started off good. When we repent and regret rebelling and rejecting Jesus we repent of something bad.

 

[Howard Is]

When God regretted something it was something good. Man was created good and started off good. When we repent and regret rebelling and rejecting Jesus we repent of something bad.

 

[gnomon]

Making sense of the coronavirus

When I learned of some recent examples of sex change operations involving children as young as six or seven in some cases, I felt an anger that I believe God also feels. There are many societal sins in these times that all reach biblically epic proportions. If the west and kingdoms of this world have crossed a line in the sand with God what would we expect to see?
I would expect to see action. In the future, in bible prophesies, we see that nations receive judgments of God trying to make them repent from their evil ways. In the past, we saw God taking action in Egypt and sending judgments to force Pharoah to get the point and change his ways or at least to let God's children go.
In both these cases, a successive series of judgments from God followed each other until the nations were broken as a result of not heeding His message and judgments.
If this is the case with the plague that has come on the world then the only remedy would be to cease from the wicked things that brought it on and to cry out to God. The judgments in the bible were on nations in these cases for the most part, rather than individuals. There will come a time when God cleans up the books for all people, but that time was not in the past and was not in the last day prophesies of the bible.
Knowing that certain levels of sin and evil practices are bound to result in God stepping in, the question with the modern plague arises, is this a judgment from God? If it is, then the only way to stop it is for nations of the world to change drastically. If they did not, then what would be expected if this were a message to nations from God, is that even clearer messages via judgments would follow and there would be an end to the world order of the day.
We do know that a new world order will come to exist in the very final days of man's rule on earth according to bible prophesy. If this plague is from God then it would mean that we are entering that final period very soon. (unless nations cease sex-change operations, abortions, and some of the sins outlined in Scripture that have now reached heaven).
For many bible believers, this would make sense as to why such a horrible plague was allowed to enter the world today. One result of the virus has been that hospitals and medical systems have been, and will increasingly be overburdened. Nonessential surgeries are being canceled. If the plague was here as a result of the aforementioned reasons, that would seem to make sense that one of the first casualties of the event was the medical system.
Looking for a vaccine or cure would not work, because if the message was from God, some other event would follow that would accomplish the purpose anyhow. The only solution would be to change the ways of guilty nations and to repent.
The coming days will reveal if this scenario is correct or not. In any case, I would recommend that nations pray, and ask forgiveness and healing.

You can just blame me.

I'm a sick individual. The forums resident alcoholic and heavy smoker.

Just blame me.

 

[dfnj]

We do. Holy men of God died to confirm they had the record from Him. He promised to send His spirit to us to get it right. Any suggestion He messed up is foolish and unfounded speculation.

I get it, people who have no spine can't stand up. People like yourself crave subjugation.

You have something in the scrolls you think is relevant here? Why did you not post it? As for a chosen people, yes we are precisely that. Regardless of what the world thinks. They don't get a vote.

Chosen to be delusional.

Not as busy as it has been creating thousands of whoppers and fables.

One man's religion is another man's cult.

Man needed to realize that some sacrifice was needed. It all pointed to the Lamb of God that would die for us one day.

Jesus never really died. You can't kill God. No harm, no foul. Nobody died for us.

Science is religion. It simply depends on the degree to which society falls in wickedness. Once advanced wickedness sets in, naturally other religions will be more popular than the truth.

Well, thank God you have the hubris to pretend to speak for God and tell us how wicked society has become. You only criticize and hate in other people what you do not like about your own character. I find it very telling that the people most obsessed with sin and evil turn out to be the most sinful and evil.

Jesus claiming He fulfilled prophesy and was God is not morals.

The Apostles were telling you what Jesus was saying. Then it was written down. Copied several times by different people. Translated into Greek. Modified several more times. And then translated into English which you claims is the absolute literal truth of God. Sorry, I'm not buying the snake oil you are selling!

I think it works the way He said.
God only comes in after we sincerely ask Him to. Until we do whatever we dredge up within will just be deeper sewer water.
Believe what you like, it doesn't. In fact, demon possession can result from too much of that sort of thing.

You have many delusions about the nature of God. God is perfect, whole, and complete without any needs or desires. Human beings, on the other hand, are not perfect like God. We have many imperfections. And our imperfections cause us to have many needs and desires. It is our needs and desires which are the source of all that is evil in the World. Demons and other silly superstitions have nothing to do with it. Man is responsible for all that is evil in the World. And because of our imperfections we cause suffering for ourselves and others.

This is why I have problems with people like you. You are full of hate. You hate people all around you because they do not believe the "right" way. You hate society because you label it as "wickedness". People and society are causing you to suffer. Everyone hates pain and suffering. The thing is people are doing the best they can in facing their own imperfections. But your expectations are much higher. You are constantly judging people as if you are God. You are judging people as being evil because people are not being perfect like God.

But what you are really doing is hating God. This is because the only way to get rid of all the evil in the World would have been by creating everyone having omnipotent powers in the first place. God created each of us having many imperfections. Stop judging God and hating God because you are suffering in your life. Everyone suffers. I'm sorry the rest of us are so disappointing to you and are responsible for so much suffering in your life. Maybe it's time you start having thicker skin. People only take away from you what you let them. Don't let them!

You know the story of Eden. My interpretation is the story is not about the woman biting the apple and sin. The state of Adam's mind before and after biting the apple is the point of the story. Prior to biting the Apple, Adam was blissfully ignorant. This is what happens with children. In a child's mind they are not separate from their parents. A child's world is experienced as perfection. Everything is pure love and all their needs are met.

After biting the apple Adam now sees himself separate from God. This is the point when a child realizes they are separate from their parents. This the point where the child begins to question why is everything in the World full of suffering. This the point where a child sees his parents as weak, petty, and full of limitations. After biting the apple Adam has lost his child's innocence and oneness with his parent figure or God. When most people discover they have imperfections as young adults they react in different ways. Many people will hate their parents, hate themselves, and hate God. The argument for hatred against God is if God loves us so much then why didn't God create us having omnipotent powers. The spiritual journey most people take in their lives is finding peace with all this hatred of our own imperfections.

Once people find peace with the hatred of imperfections in themselves, their parent's, and the way God created the Universe, then some people will return back to Eden in a sense. Although the innocence of youth can never be regained, people who make peace with the tree of knowledge can at least appreciate slivers of Eden's perfection as they occur in their own lives in the present. The only way we can fully appreciate ourselves, the people around us, and everything in God's creation is by making peace with the tree of knowledge.

I wish you peace and love (which is really hard for me say because I hate your guts and everything you say even though I'm trying not to judge)

 

[dfnj]

Great song! I added it to my collection.

 

[dad]

You can just blame me.

I'm a sick individual. The forums resident alcoholic and heavy smoker.

For shutting down the world? You apparently think highly of yourself.

 

[Howard Is]

Jesus never really died. You can't kill God. No harm, no foul. Nobody died for us.

So true.
God pretended to suffer and die to guilt us into obedience ?

That is one narcissistic gaslighting parent !

 

[Howard Is]

For shutting down the world? You apparently think highly of yourself.

No, you do.

You think scumbags like us are an obsession of God’s !
We are the reason for His Activity and Holographic Self Harm !

Without us, you would be nothing, lol.

 

[dfnj]

So true.
God pretended to suffer and die to guilt us into obedience ?

That is one narcissistic gaslighting parent !

You had me at gaslighting!

 

[dad]

I get it, people who have no spine can't stand up. People like yourself crave subjugation.

Not sure how talking about the Almighty invokes that sort of insane demonic response. I forget some people are not here to debate or offer a rational position.

One man's religion is another man's cult.

In the case of so-called science, one man's religion is also his cult.

Jesus never really died.

Ignorant blasphemy.

Well, thank God you have the hubris to pretend to speak for God and tell us how wicked society has become.

God already spoke in His word. I don't have to speak for Him there. I can pipe in a few insults myself though of my own volition.

You only criticize and hate in other people what you do not like about your own character.

Stop projecting.

I find it very telling that the people most obsessed with sin and evil turn out to be the most sinful and evil.

You thought they were perfect??! They would not be evil though if they were believers, just sinners that were saved. The evil refuse to get saved and reject God.

The Apostles were telling you what Jesus was saying. Then it was written down. Copied several times by different people. Translated into Greek. Modified several more times. And then translated into English which you claims is the absolute literal truth of God. Sorry, I'm not buying the snake oil you are selling!

Orchestrated in perfect harmony by the Great Conductor.

You have many delusions about the nature of God. God is perfect, whole, and complete without any needs or desires.

What, you have tea together? That sort of god sounds more like a spineless phantom bore with no sense of life or humor and no personality or will of their own. But then again the gods' people create in their own image tell us a lot about themselves.

Human beings, on the other hand, are not perfect like God. We have many imperfections. And our imperfections cause us to have many needs and desires.

Sin causes that too, and this is the problem.

It is our needs and desires which are the source of all that is evil in the World.

False. Some desire to help and save people. Some human desire is to love. Not all needs and desires are bad. What a sad little philosophy.

Demons and other silly superstitions have nothing to do with it. Man is responsible for all that is evil in the World. And because of our imperfections we cause suffering for ourselves and others.

Sinful man is responsible and is aided and abetted by fallen angels. Not like you can wave spirits away, good or bad.

This is why I have problems with people like you. You are full of hate. You hate people all around you because they do not believe the "right" way.

What a hateful thing to say and what a lie. Facing the fact that God has rules and that they are for the best and work for us and for salvation is anything but hateful. We are to love good and despise evil. If God has to step in at times and judge nations it is not out of hate. It is out of love. If He did not correct people and nations in this world, it would have gotten too wicked to warrant continued existence long ago.

You hate society because you label it as "wickedness".

You seem to hate believers in society. I, on the other hand merely despise the evil and wickedness that rots society.

You are constantly judging people as if you are God. You are judging people as being evil because people are not being perfect like God.

God has judged nations in history and He did so for real reasons. Much the same reasons that we see permeating modern societies. God is the judge. If we see that He was stepping in for some judgment that is not believers judging! That is believers being aware of what is going on.

But what you are really doing is hating God. This is because the only way to get rid of all the evil in the World would have been by creating everyone having omnipotent powers in the first place. God created each of us having many imperfections. Stop judging God and hating God because you are suffering in your life.

Stop projecting suffering on others. I am having a great old time!

Everyone suffers. I'm sorry the rest of us are so disappointing to you and are responsible for so much suffering in your life.

Don't blame me if God has judged nations in the past. If He was acting now, it is not our fault either. Of course, I find mass murder and deep perversions and offending children disgusting. I could see why the Righteous God would want to step up to bat for them.

You know the story of Eden. My interpretation is the story is not about the woman biting the apple and sin. The state of Adam's mind before and after biting the apple is the point of the story. Prior to biting the Apple, Adam was blissfully ignorant. This is what happens with children. In a child's mind they are not separate from their parents. A child's world is experienced as perfection. Everything is pure love and all their needs are met.

No. Adam was not ignorant at all. It was after the disobedience that he knew evil also, and not just the good anymore.

Once people find peace with the hatred of imperfections in themselves, their parent's, and the way God created the Universe, then some people will return back to Eden in a sense.

False. Man needs Jesus to return to paradise. He cannot save himself. Man can have no peace until he receives the Prince of Peace.

I wish you peace and love (which is really hard for me say because I hate your guts and everything you say even though I'm trying not to judge)

Well, thanks for the schizo compliment I guess.