Malay Muslims upset over Christian use of "Allah" to refer to god

[Shia Islam]

Yahoo!

I'm confused about something. I've been in a lot of religious debates over the years, both online and IRL. And something I've heard plenty of times from Muslims is that Christians and Jews, especially in lands where Arabic is a common language, use Allah to refer to god, and use that as an argument that all three worship the same god. But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

There is a critical problem with these "Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia"... For example...They called for banning Shia Islam!

Shia Muslims are being severely persecuted in Malaysia, which we used to thought of as a very civilized country...

 

[YmirGF]

Shia Muslims are being severely persecuted in Malaysia, which we used to thought of as a very civilized country...

Indeed, the Shia have often been the wipping boy of Sunni's for many centuries. That said, when I first read the thread I mused to myself, 'Ah, more from "moderate" Malaysia. How special. No doubt this is their idea of interfaith outreach."

 

[Reverend Rick]

They are not the same God. Converted Muslims tell us that.

Bull hocky. Read Gen 20-22. All three religions are Abrahamic and from the same God. God's promise to Haggar is no less or no more than God's promise to Abraham. I would say 2 billion Muslims are indeed a great nation.

You do still read the Old Testament right? Jesus was a Jew right? Allah is just another name for God the father.

The only way they are not the same God is if you believe Jesus is above God the father.

Ishmael is a descendant of Abraham and actually is his first born. Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael.

Only an ignorant person would believe any different if they actually ever read Genesis.

I find it interesting one would question Muhammad but believe Paul hook line and sinker.

How do you even know Paul lied or not about his journey to Damascus. We have only his word to take on this.

Luke wrote a Gospel and never even laid eyes on Jesus yet you believe everything in Acts because why?

Paul said it, Luke wrote it and James, (Jesus brother) had a big problem with it.

I could be wrong, but something tells me you are one of those Christians who carries a little new testament Bible and thinks only Gentiles will be in Heaven.

Why do you think we are told not to judge others? The White throne judgement may not go quite the way you think it will.

I see many folks in prison forgiven, and many hateful preachers burning in hell.

Do you refuse to love your neighbor? The Bible don't give any exclusions for who we should love.

 

[Man of Faith]

Bull hocky. Read Gen 20-22. All three religions are Abrahamic and from the same God. God's promise to Haggar is no less or no more than God's promise to Abraham. I would say 2 billion Muslims are indeed a great nation.

You do still read the Old Testament right? Jesus was a Jew right? Allah is just another name for God the father.

The only way they are not the same God is if you believe Jesus is above God the father.

Ishmael is a descendant of Abraham and actually is his first born. Muhammad is a descendant of Ishmael.

Only an ignorant person would believe any different if they actually ever read Genesis.

I find it interesting one would question Muhammad but believe Paul hook line and sinker.

How do you even know Paul lied or not about his journey to Damascus. We have only his word to take on this.

Luke wrote a Gospel and never even laid eyes on Jesus yet you believe everything in Acts because why?

Paul said it, Luke wrote it and James, (Jesus brother) had a big problem with it.

I could be wrong, but something tells me you are one of those Christians who carries a little new testament Bible and thinks only Gentiles will be in Heaven.

Why do you think we are told not to judge others? The White throne judgement may not go quite the way you think it will.

I see many folks in prison forgiven, and many hateful preachers burning in hell.

Do you refuse to love your neighbor? The Bible don't give any exclusions for who we should love.

Does Allah have a son?

 

[Reverend Rick]

Please let me ask a question, If Jesus was the last to prophesize, why does Paul ask us to pray for greater gifts than speaking in tongues?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So, some religious people are ticked off at some other religious people for a perceived slight regarding their specific interpretation of their mythology?

I'm sure this type of situation comes up extremely rarely. It's pretty shocking that it has come up at all, considering the fact that religious people are so hard to offend.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So, some religious people are ticked off at some other religious people for a perceived slight regarding their specific interpretation of their mythology?

I'm sure this type of situation comes up extremely rarely. It's pretty shocking that it has come up at all, considering the fact that religious people are so hard to offend.

Geeze KT religion is mythology? Thanks for the Atheist sermon.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Geeze KT religion is mythology?

No, but all religions include their own mythologies.

 

[Reverend Rick]

No, but all religions include their own mythologies.

So who decides Myth from fact? Calling religion Myth is subjective. I can't prove anything one way from another and even if I could it would not change what people choose to believe.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So who decides Myth from fact?

Well, here's a basic description of what mythology is from Wikipedia:

"...a myth is a sacred narrative explaining how the world and humankind assumed their present form,although, in a very broad sense, the word can refer to any traditional story. Bruce Lincoln defines myth as "ideology in narrative form". Myths may arise as either truthful depictions or overelaborated accounts of historical events, as allegory for or personification of natural phenomena, or as an explanation of ritual. They are used to convey religious or idealized experience, to establish behavioral models, and to teach."

"As stories, myths are often endorsed by rulers and priests and closely linked to religion or spirituality. In the society in which it is told, a myth is usually regarded as a true account of the remote past. In fact, many societies have two categories of traditional narrative, "true stories" or myths, and "false stories" or fables. Creation myths generally take place in a primordial age, when the world had not yet achieved its current form, and explain how the world gained its current form and how customs, institutions and taboos were established."

If religious texts and narratives don't meet the definition of "mythology," then I don't know what does. Do you have some specific reason why religious narratives wouldn't fall under this definition? Or, do you just have a problem with the word mythology, without having understood the range of things that mythology covers?

Calling religion Myth is subjective.

And, again, I didn't say that religion is myth. I said that religions include mythologies.

I can't prove anything one way from another and even if I could it would not change what people choose to believe.

Indeed. Which (back to the subject of the thread), makes it even more ridiculous why there is so much conflict and strife among religious sects over the differences in their mythologies.

 

[nazz]

Does Allah have a son?

Did God have sex with Mary? If you answer 'no' you understand why Muslims say God has no son.

 

[Man of Faith]

Did God have sex with Mary? If you answer 'no' you understand why Muslims say God has no son.

What this implies is that Muhammad used the Bible as a pattern to come up with the Islam religion. That isn’t what Muhammad himself said when he wrote the Koran. He said it was from angels that visited him, or at least one angel. The angels should have known if God has a son or not. Either God has a son or he doesn’t. It isn’t logical that both could be true, unless they are different Gods or one religion is mistaken which would implicate that it can’t be trusted. And if it can’t be trusted then it could be wrong on whether God has a son. If both religions are true, then they can’t have the same God.

 

[nazz]

What this implies is that Muhammad used the Bible as a pattern to come up with the Islam religion. That isn’t what Muhammad himself said when he wrote the Koran. He said it was from angels that visited him, or at least one angel. The angels should have known if God has a son or not. Either God has a son or he doesn’t. It isn’t logical that both could be true, unless they are different Gods or one religion is mistaken which would implicate that it can’t be trusted. And if it can’t be trusted then it could be wrong on whether God has a son. If both religions are true, then they can’t have the same God.

The Qur'an states God does not beget biological offspring. Muslims believe that and Christians would agree.

 

[nazz]

It is illogical for a God to tell one person that you get to Heaven by works and then tell someone else you get there by faith alone.

There are hadiths which state faith alone will get one into Paradise such as...

The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said : " On the Day of Resurrection, I will intercede and say, 'O my Lord ! Admit into Paradise (even) those who have faith equal to a mustard seed in their hearts.'" - Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Hadith 600

...and the Bible has plenty to say about the necessity of good works.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What this implies is that Muhammad used the Bible as a pattern to come up with the Islam religion. That isn’t what Muhammad himself said when he wrote the Koran. He said it was from angels that visited him, or at least one angel. The angels should have known if God has a son or not. Either God has a son or he doesn’t. It isn’t logical that both could be true, unless they are different Gods or one religion is mistaken which would implicate that it can’t be trusted. And if it can’t be trusted then it could be wrong on whether God has a son. If both religions are true, then they can’t have the same God.

Infallible word of God right? If this is true why does the Prodastant Bible have less books in it? Seriously, Jesus never put a pen to paper or anything else. The Bible is written by man and man is not perfect. The only perfect one never wrote anything. Perhaps the "Son of God" has different interpretations or the humans that decided what would be included in the Bible and what would not may or may not got things perfectly right.

There are three Abrahamic religions and they have the same God. Who says every word in all three religions are perfectly true, man or God? What are the chances of all three religions getting everything just perfect? You can be God inspired and still make a mistake. That does not however indicate we have different Gods.

It is almost like you want to hate any religion that is different than your own and making "their" God different allows this hate. We are commanded to love one another not accuse one another of following a false God.

God created us, we are all his sons and daughters. Muslims believe in the Virgin birth, you did know that right? Perhaps all things were not reveled to all religions, did you ever think of that? We are not to concern ourselves with judgment of others, yet YOU judge other beliefs and say they are not the same God. Judgement is not yours my brother. Leave it to God to sort these things out.

God does not lie. When he promised Hagar a great nation, if it is not the Muslims, where is this great nation of Ismael then?

 

[beenie]

Infallible word of God right? If this is true why does the Prodastant Bible have less books in it? Seriously, Jesus never put a pen to paper or anything else. The Bible is written by man and man is not perfect. The only perfect one never wrote anything. Perhaps the "Son of God" has different interpretations or the humans that decided what would be included in the Bible and what would not may or may not got things perfectly right.

There are three Abrahamic religions and they have the same God. Who says every word in all three religions are perfectly true, man or God? What are the chances of all three religions getting everything just perfect? You can be God inspired and still make a mistake. That does not however indicate we have different Gods.

It is almost like you want to hate any religion that is different than your own and making "their" God different allows this hate. We are commanded to love one another not accuse one another of following a false God.

God created us, we are all his sons and daughters. Muslims believe in the Virgin birth, you did know that right? Perhaps all things were not reveled to all religions, did you ever think of that? We are not to concern ourselves with judgment of others, yet YOU judge other beliefs and say they are not the same God. Judgement is not yours my brother. Leave it to God to sort these things out.

God does not lie. When he promised Hagar a great nation, if it is not the Muslims, where is this great nation of Ismael then?

Rick, will you stop making so much damn sense?

 

[Reverend Rick]

James says faith without works is dead. I believe you cannot help but have works if you have faith.

Works may not get you into heaven, but not having any works would indicate a lack of faith.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Yahoo!

I'm confused about something. I've been in a lot of religious debates over the years, both online and IRL. And something I've heard plenty of times from Muslims is that Christians and Jews, especially in lands where Arabic is a common language, use Allah to refer to god, and use that as an argument that all three worship the same god. But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

I was raised in Bali, Indonesia.

In the old days, they had a word(s) for God - 'Sangjang Widhi Wasa'...actually, that came a bit later....with the Christian missionaries...

The word(s) for God was 'Maharaja Dewata' (Great King Angel) or the Sanskrit word - 'Achintya' (Unknowable God)...

Before the Hindus came to Bali, I don't know what 'God' was called...or even if they had a God...when they were all animistic...

Anyway, when the Muslims came to Indonesia, the word for 'God' became 'Allah' in Bahasa Indonesian and also, in Bahasa Malayu.

So, you could worship Jehova and still be worshiping Allah...you could worship Siva and still be worshiping Allah...

Allah just became a word, like when we say 'God'. 'God' can refer to any 'God' or it can refer to all.

So, it's not really a case of people worshiping Allah, but people worshiping God.

Recently, my friend told me that the Indonesian government is changing that so as not to offend Christians and Hindus in their country - yeah, we'll see. lol

 

[Pegg]

Yahoo!

I'm confused about something. I've been in a lot of religious debates over the years, both online and IRL. And something I've heard plenty of times from Muslims is that Christians and Jews, especially in lands where Arabic is a common language, use Allah to refer to god, and use that as an argument that all three worship the same god. But here we have Muslim clerics and religious leaders in Malaysia, condemning a Catholic priest for using Allah to refer to god. They say that Allah is sacred to Muslims, and is not to be used by people of other religions. So, which is right? Christians and Jews can use Allah to refer to god, or they can't?

thats crazy.

Allah is the arabic word for god. How on earth can a muslim cleric not know this???

 

[averageJOE]

Infallible word of God right? If this is true why does the Prodastant Bible have less books in it? Seriously, Jesus never put a pen to paper or anything else. The Bible is written by man and man is not perfect. The only perfect one never wrote anything. Perhaps the "Son of God" has different interpretations or the humans that decided what would be included in the Bible and what would not may or may not got things perfectly right.

There are three Abrahamic religions and they have the same God. Who says every word in all three religions are perfectly true, man or God? What are the chances of all three religions getting everything just perfect? You can be God inspired and still make a mistake. That does not however indicate we have different Gods.

It is almost like you want to hate any religion that is different than your own and making "their" God different allows this hate. We are commanded to love one another not accuse one another of following a false God.

God created us, we are all his sons and daughters. Muslims believe in the Virgin birth, you did know that right? Perhaps all things were not reveled to all religions, did you ever think of that? We are not to concern ourselves with judgment of others, yet YOU judge other beliefs and say they are not the same God. Judgement is not yours my brother. Leave it to God to sort these things out.

God does not lie. When he promised Hagar a great nation, if it is not the Muslims, where is this great nation of Ismael then?

Wow. You schooled Man of Faith.