Male Abortion (should man have the right to abort)

[Revoltingest]

That is probably because I made no claims about when life begins, the scientific facts I linked were about the development of a foetus, and it's inability to experience pain. These were based on research, examined by both the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, in two separate links, thus to describe it as assumption is incorrect.

This not an argument nor a justification for an abortion, it is merely rebuttal to the claim that a foetus suffer pain during a termination prior to 24 weeks.

Right...I've figured out that we weren't conversing with each other.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We eat cute pets here in Ameristan too.
My pet ducks & geese when I was a kid....very tasty.
And I'll bet Arnold Ziffel was lip smack'n good too.

There's a lovely line in an Agatha Christie movie called "A Murder is Announced," when a (presumably lesbian) character is tending her pigs, and says to Miss Marple, "I love pigs. This one will make a fine rasher come fall."

 

[Kfox]

In the United States, men have privacy rights to avoid blood tests and DNA tests to determine fatherhood. This puts the financial burden on the American taxpayer, rather than the father.

Not quite, if it is a court ordered paternity test, he can refuse to take the test, but he will be in contempt of court and consequences of contempt of court can include being forced to pay anyway. So privacy rights does not get you out of paying child support
Is it Legal to Refuse a Paternity Test? | DNAtesting.com

 

[Kfox]

When he was tricked into it for example.

Consider a hypothetical one-night stand where a priori understanding and agreement is such that it's just sex and that children are out of the question. Let's go a step further and say that the woman promises that she is taking the pill and that even if she gets pregnant anyway that she'll take a morning after pill and that even if that doesn't work, she'll abort.

Then afterwards, it turns out she lied about everything and actually just wanted to get pregnant and bag a rich guy to do it and trick him to be part of it.

In such scenario, I don't think the man has any responsibility.



Let's exaggerate even further - and this is a true story that happened in the UK on multiple occasions.
Single women with a ticking biological clock wishing to have a baby and don't care about not having a man.
So they go to nightclubs and pick up a guy. They have a one-night stand and use a condom. Upon finishing, she says she is going to take a shower and takes the used condom with here to "throw it away".
Yet instead of throwing it away, she takes a syringe to get the sperm out of the condom and squirts it into herself.

Again in such a scenario, I don't the man has any responsibility.

He can off course choose to be involved. But he can't be forced.
In fact, especially in the second example, I feel the man even has grounds to sue the woman and get paid himself.

that might be the case in the UK, but not the USA.

 

[Kfox]

Most of our choices affect others, it's still her body, and it's still her choice, to do otherwise would remove women's bodily autonomy.

Your right to swing your fists ends where my nose begins. Your body, your choice should end when it begins to affect other people.

 

[Kfox]

Rape, say a teacher raped a 12yo student, in this case the student shouldn’t be obligated to be a father and take care of the financial needs of the child.

The government is supposed to protect 12yo from rapists , if the government failed to do so, they have to pay the consequences

I'm talking about consensual sex

 

[Kfox]

Just a fact you didn't seem to acknowledge in your bid to point your finger at the female.

Something so obvious does not need to be acknowledged or mentioned.

 

[Kfox]

Then they can file to have parental rights revoked, which means they also lose any right to complain.

That only works when someone else wants to adopt and support the child.
If Parental Rights are Terminated, Does Child Support Continue?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Exactly.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

that might be the case in the UK, but not the USA.

???

What makes you think such doesn't happen in the US?
There are no golddiggers in the US who scheme to get themselves impregnated with the DNA of a rich dude?
Really?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Your right to swing your fists ends where my nose begins. Your body, your choice should end when it begins to affect other people.

And it does.

But a fetus isn't "other people" with rights of their own.

 

[ChristineM]

Something so obvious does not need to be acknowledged or mentioned.

Yes it obviously does because it still occurs extremely often

 

[leroy]

.



Where the heck did you get that idea that it's not illegal to FORCE someone to take certain medication?

If a father forces his daughter to take some pills in order to kill some amoeba or bacteria ....nobody would consider that a serious crime. .....so if the fetus is as valuable as an amoeba it shouldt be illegal to force a woman to abort or aeast it shouldn't be considered a serious crime. ..........
..this argument only applies if you afirm that the fetus is "just a parasite " like an amoeba if you dont make such an afirmation then this point is irrelevant


False conclusion based on your addition of the word "just".



I have never heard of a women's execution being delayed until her pregnancy is carried through.
Primarily because I have never heard of ANY conviction of a death penalty which is then carried out within 9 months after the verdict.

So yes, it's an absurd law because it would never actually happen in practice.
In fact, in the US there is currently only one woman scheduled for execution. And she is the first one in the last 70 years. And she's not pregnant. So what are you talking about?

It's almost like you are just sucking nonsensical arguments out of your thumb on the spot. Almost.



In my experience very few, if any, prochoice people would agree that you make any kind of sense with all these false analogies and strawmen.

After all this time, you seem to still have no clue what the "bodily autonomy" argument is all about. Why else would you keep falling back on the false analogy of killing toddlers and alike?[/QUOTE]

 

[nPeace]

Exactly.

I'm glad we can agree on something.
For a moment there, I though I was speaking another language other than English, or you could not read.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm glad we can agree on something.
For a moment there, I though I was speaking another language other than English, or you could not read.

The condescending and insulting undertone is noted.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If a father forces his daughter to take some pills in order to kill some amoeba or bacteria ....nobody would consider that a serious crime. .....so if the fetus is as valuable as an amoeba it shouldt be illegal to force a woman to abort or aeast it shouldn't be considered a serious crime.

What a surprise. Another repeat of the already exposed false analogy.

..this argument only applies if you afirm that the fetus is "just a parasite " like an amoeba if you dont make such an afirmation then this point is irrelevant

I didn't say such a thing in such words. That's what you made of it. And I pointed it out as well previously.
As usual, you can't bring yourself to engage in honest conversation.

 

[nPeace]

The condescending and insulting undertone is noted.

No one gets medals for dishonesty... at least, not that I know of.

 

[leroy]

What a surprise. Another repeat of the already exposed false analogy.



I didn't say such a thing in such words. That's what you made of it. And I pointed it out as well previously.
As usual, you can't bring yourself to engage in honest conversation.

You made the claim that it should be considered a serious crime to force a woman to take some medicine ……. My comment intended to refute that particular claim.

DO you agree that forcing a woman to take medicine shouldn’t be considered a serious crime (that should be paid with prison)………….if you agree then acknowledge that you were wrong, if you disagree then present an argument.

you can't bring yourself to engage in honest conversation

Ok explaining your view would be a good start.

Do you affirm that a fetus is a human (and a person)…just like a born baby?

Do you affirm that a fetus is just a parsite? (like an amoba)

Do affirm that a fetus is somewhere in between? (explain)

What is your view and how would you defend it?...............or is it an other case where you don’t affirm nor deny anything you just keep your view vague and ambiguous so nobody could refute it?

 

[nPeace]

@epronovost I will now rest my case... until the end of 2022.
Research now shows that preborn babies can feel pain very early — by 8 weeks

 

[leroy]

@epronovost I will now rest my case... until the end of 2022.
Research now shows that preborn babies can feel pain very early — by 8 weeks

In my opinion that is not even relevant, there are many ways to kill a human painlessly but it is still wrong.

Many humans don’t feel pain in this moment (people that are in coma or under the effect of anesthesia) but killing them is still wrong.