Male Female

[Fool]

Already have. It can't be done except in certain rare cases, the genes assign the sex and they cannot be altered

genes alone do not assign sex.

a person can still have the xx, or xy, chromosomes and still not develop exclusively as a female/male. because sex is actually determined by many other factors.

What is intersex? | Intersex Society of North America

 

[shmogie]

Chromosomes, physical characteristics, hormones, sexual organs determine sex. It is impossible to physically change someone into the opposite sex of what they were born.

 

[shmogie]

No, you didn't.


What "can't be done"?

Step me through whatever you're trying to say:

1. We can't change our genes.
2. Therefore, ___________.
3. Therefore, God is clearly opposed to gender reassignment surgery.

What goes in that blank? Take as much time as you need.

Therefore gender reassignment surgery does not exist. One might surmise that because it can't be done someone is wasting time energy and resources in pursuing a chimera. One might also surmise that God intended sex to be as he designed the being, as the person was born, or else it truly could be changed, Surmises only. I have no direct revelation from God.

 

[Fool]

Chromosomes, physical characteristics, hormones, sexual organs determine sex. It is impossible to physically change someone into the opposite sex of what they were born.

again you are wrong. all babies start out as phenotype female in humans.

gynandromorphism, especially among avians, amphibians and reptiles, it isn't unheard of, females becoming males. the ratio is like 1 in 9000 for avians.


http://community.lovenature.com/wild/6-surprising-animals-that-can-change-sex


10 Fascinating Animals That Can Change Their Sex

 

[shmogie]

Actually, transsexuals aren't "clearly" the sex assigned at birth, according to biology. There are brain differences, genes associated with male-to-female transsexuals (I would assume the same with female-to-male transsexuals, such as myself), digit ratio differences and so on. Sex is a spectrum, according to biology, not a binary.

The things you point out have not been proven to be any kind of causation factors, they are attributes, not determinitive, I am left handed, 14% of the population, does that have any effect on my "sex", no.

 

[shmogie]

again you are wrong. all babies start out as phenotype female in humans.

gynandromorphism, especially among avians, amphibians and reptiles, it isn't unheard of, females becoming males. the ratio is like 1 in 9000 for avians.


http://community.lovenature.com/wild/6-surprising-animals-that-can-change-sex


10 Fascinating Animals That Can Change Their Sex

We aren't talking about birds or lizards, we are talking about humans. The process in the animal kingdom is part of their DNA which under the correct circumstances, has the information encoded in it to instruct the body in the process. Not so with humans.

 

[Fool]

Chromosomes, physical characteristics, hormones, sexual organs determine sex. It is impossible to physically change someone into the opposite sex of what they were born.

again, you're basically misinformed. all the equipment that you have, the person of the opposite sex has too. it all just transitioned somewhere else and as something defined otherwise. ovaries become testes, phallus become a clitoris or penis, et al


List of related male and female reproductive organs - Wikipedia

 

[Fool]

We aren't talking about birds or lizards, we are talking about humans. The process in the animal kingdom is part of their DNA which under the correct circumstances, has the information encoded in it to instruct the body in the process. Not so with humans.

then intersexed is a sex.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The things you point out have not been proven to be any kind of causation factors, they are attributes, not determinitive, I am left handed, 14% of the population, does that have any effect on my "sex", no.

They point towards a biological causation.

Transsexuals are also more likely to be left-handed, now that you mention it. Handedness is caused by brain wiring. I'm left-handed, too.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Therefore gender reassignment surgery does not exist.

Does not follow. Genetic sex, gender identity, and gender expression are all different things.

One might surmise that because it can't be done someone is wasting time energy and resources in pursuing a chimera. One might also surmise that God intended sex to be as he designed the being, as the person was born, or else it truly could be changed, Surmises only. I have no direct revelation from God.

Strange that you would mistake your own surmises for "God being clear."

 

[shmogie]

Does not follow. Genetic sex, gender identity, and gender expression are all different things.


Strange that you would mistake your own surmises for "God being clear."

Does not follow. Genetic sex, gender identity, and gender expression are all different things.


Strange that you would mistake your own surmises for "God being clear."

Lets be clear. Gender is a social construct that varies from culture to culture. Sex is determined at birth. Sex cannot be changed, therefore, since God makes it clear he is opposed to homosexuality, and pretending to be the opposite sex is akin to homosexuality, God is opposed

 

[shmogie]

They point towards a biological causation.

Transsexuals are also more likely to be left-handed, now that you mention it. Handedness is caused by brain wiring. I'm left-handed, too.

Left handed people compose the giants of history representing much more than their percentage of the population, pat yourself on the back ! No link has been established between the attributes you mention, and a genetic cause for transsexuality.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Left handed people compose the giants of history representing much more than their percentage of the population, pat yourself on the back ! No link has been established between the attributes you mention, and a genetic cause for transsexuality.

I said that it points to a biological basis for transsexualism. And genetic links with transsexual women have been found: BBC NEWS | Health | Transsexual gene link identified

 

[shmogie]

then intersexed is a sex.

No, it is a natural process to change sex. There are only two sexes

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lets be clear. Gender is a social construct that varies from culture to culture. Sex is determined at birth. Sex cannot be changed, therefore, since God makes it clear he is opposed to homosexuality, and pretending to be the opposite sex is akin to homosexuality, God is opposed

Gender is not a social construct, entirely. It's the human interpretation of biological sex differences.

God is not opposed to homosexuality, in my interpretation, and transsexualism has nothing to do with homosexuality. Trans people can be gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, etc. like anyone else. No one is "pretending", either.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

No, it is a natural process to change sex. There are only two sexes

No, there aren't. You're just ignoring reality now.

 

[shmogie]

Gender is not a social construct, entirely. It's the human interpretation of biological sex differences.

God is not opposed to homosexuality, in my interpretation, and transsexualism has nothing to do with homosexuality. Trans people can be gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, etc. like anyone else. No one is "pretending", either.

Your interpretation is yours and you have a right to believe what you want, Based upon what read in the Bible, I disagree. Transexuals are pretending to be a sex they are not. They may believe they are A, but in actuality they are B. The Mayo clinic pioneered so called "gender reassignment surgery". They determined it was of no benefit and no longer do it, They do treat it as a mental condition in their psych. dept.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your interpretation is yours and you have a right to believe what you want, Based upon what read in the Bible, I disagree. Transexuals are pretending to be a sex they are not. They may believe they are A, but in actuality they are B. The Mayo clinic pioneered so called "gender reassignment surgery". They determined it was of no benefit and no longer do it, They do treat it as a mental condition in their psych. dept.

That's Johns Hopkins under the idiotic bigot, Paul McHugh, not the Mayo Clinic. He really should be fired. His work has been denounced and refuted over and over. Medical and social transition are the only things that ease sex dyphoria, which is why it's the recommended treatment. We're happier and healthier afterward.

I'm not "pretending" to be anything. Do you know how offensive that is? You're basically calling me a liar.

Transsexuals aren't mentioned in the Bible, except probably as a third-gender "eunuch" category equivalent to the hijras of India and the muxes of Mexico (the sworn virgins of Albania would be a female-to-male equivalent), which Jesus didn't have a problem with. Remember the story of the Ethiopian eunuch? They were likely a gender-variant individual and are sometimes depicted as having a feminine appearance in Christian art. The early Christians didn't have a problem with them and they were welcomed into the community, where the Ethiopian was said to go on their way rejoicing after being Baptized. So why is it so many modern Christians are bigoted hypocrites when the early Christians were comparably much more liberal and compassionate?

 

[Fool]

No, it is a natural process to change sex. There are only two sexes

What is Biological Sex? | Female, Male and Intersex

 

[shmogie]

That's Johns Hopkins under the idiotic bigot, Paul McHugh, not the Mayo Clinic. He really should be fired. His work has been denounced and refuted over and over. Medical and social transition are the only things that ease sex dyphoria, which is why it's the recommended treatment. We're happier and healthier afterward.

I'm not "pretending" to be anything. Do you know how offensive that is? You're basically calling me a liar.

Transsexuals aren't mentioned in the Bible, except probably as a third-gender "eunuch" category equivalent to the hijras of India and the muxes of Mexico (the sworn virgins of Albania would be a female-to-male equivalent), which Jesus didn't have a problem with. Remember the story of the Ethiopian eunuch? They were likely a gender-variant individual and are sometimes depicted as having a feminine appearance in Christian art. The early Christians didn't have a problem with them and they were welcomed into the community, where the Ethiopian was said to go on their way rejoicing after being Baptized. So why is it so many modern Christians are bigoted hypocrites when the early Christians were comparably much more liberal and compassionate?

Correct, I was thinking of Mayo because of an appointment. Let's not make up history as we go along. A eunuch was the result of a specific intended act of mutilation. Jesus didn't have a problem with people that there is no record of him having contact ? There is no record of gender variant people being involved with the early Christian church. This is all pure unsubstantiated speculation driven by a particular agenda. So first you construct the straw man, then call modern Christian names as a result of it's construction. A common, but often used ploy. So I am a bigot and hypocrite because I don't accept your view on the issue ? Hmmm, what a convenient methodology for giving one permission to comment on what you can't know. A simple question that will put the issue to rest. If, for whatever reason, your DNA was found at a crime scene, and was taken to be analyzed, would the result be you being identified as the sex you were at birth, an indeterminate sex, or one sex being changed to another ?