Male Female

[rusra02]

In the Book of Genesis is God male "and" female, or male "or" female?

I believe the Bible always presents Jehovah as male. For example, Luke 4:18 says; "Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free."

 

[Fool]

I believe the Bible always presents Jehovah as male. For example, Luke 4:18 says; "Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free."

the spirit, shekinah, is feminine. ruwach

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I would assume that god would have to encompass both masculine and feminine aspects.

But I also would assume that god is genderless. It's sort of like wondering what color hair god has. Why would we assume he even has hair, let alone in a color we'd consider normal?

Gray hair.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Correct, I was thinking of Mayo because of an appointment. Let's not make up history as we go along. A eunuch was the result of a specific intended act of mutilation. Jesus didn't have a problem with people that there is no record of him having contact ? There is no record of gender variant people being involved with the early Christian church. This is all pure unsubstantiated speculation driven by a particular agenda.

Explain what a "born eunuch" is, then. Of course Jesus and the early Christians would've known about trans people and gender-variant people because they existed and exist in all cultures. They certainly existed in Greco-Roman culture and the Jews would've known about them as there's examples of gender-variance in the OT. I already gave an example of early Christian contact with gender-variant people - the Ethiopian eunuch.

Eunuchs - Transgender Christians

So first you construct the straw man, then call modern Christian names as a result of it's construction. A common, but often used ploy. So I am a bigot and hypocrite because I don't accept your view on the issue ?

It was an observation. You're still essentially accusing me of being a liar.

Hmmm, what a convenient methodology for giving one permission to comment on what you can't know.

Can't know what?

A simple question that will put the issue to rest. If, for whatever reason, your DNA was found at a crime scene, and was taken to be analyzed, would the result be you being identified as the sex you were at birth, an indeterminate sex, or one sex being changed to another ?

I don't know what my DNA would say. I've never had my karotype tested. DNA is only a small part of sex determination, anyway. They would also be able to tell that "something's up" by the level of male hormones in the blood.

Why would my DNA be found at a crime scene, anyway? Are you insinuating some criminality on my behalf? If so, that's a pretty bad example.

 

[shmogie]

A crime scene was selected because ALL DNA is initially unknown. It could have been there days, months or years before a crime, before being collected. Anyone and everyone's DNA at the scene would be collected. It is the perfect totally blind test. It would show you as the sex you were born as, unless you were one of the very, very rare people who have serious genetic conditions. A forensic criminalist could go an entire career without coming across one. As to hormone levels, natural, or supplemented ?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

A crime scene was selected because ALL DNA is initially unknown. It could have been there days, months or years before a crime, before being collected. Anyone and everyone's DNA at the scene would be collected. It is the perfect totally blind test. It would show you as the sex you were born as, unless you were one of the very, very rare people who have serious genetic conditions. A forensic criminalist could go an entire career without coming across one. As to hormone levels, natural, or supplemented ?

I think I already pointed out that this question is pretty much irrelevant. You also ignored the rest of my post.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

In the Book of Genesis is God male "and" female, or male "or" female?

Do you know the definition of male and female, i.e. in the biological sense?

male
māl/
adjective

1. 1.
   of or denoting the sex that produces small, typically motile gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring.

fe·male
ˈfēˌmāl/
adjective

1. 1.
   of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) that can be fertilized by male gametes.

These definitions are used to denote the sexual gender of every (well, there are exceptions) every sexually reproducing species on the planet, including flowers, tomatoes, insects etc.

There are species with 3 sexual genders. A fish Im aware of has a female with the largest gametes, a male with the smallest gametes, and a third gender that produces gametes intermediate in size and are capable of fertilizing female eggs or being fertilized by male sperm.

There are other numerous examples of species who begin life as female, but begin producing sperm and become male when they become the largest in the school, and can even go back to being female. (See African Cichlids.)

So, to your question; How much sense does it make that a species that includes only one individual, and non-sexually reproducing at that, has any sexual gender at all?

 

[shmogie]

I think I already pointed out that this question is pretty much irrelevant. You also ignored the rest of my post.

Not irrelevant at all. DNA identifies the sex of an individual, as does body characteristics and genetalia. Gender is a social construct which has become a catch all phrase for what psychologically people feel. Ergo, I feel I should be the opposite sex, therefore I can change my gender, not sex, gender. However, why should feelings have so much sway in people ? I feel I should be 18, but I am 68. Does that mean that food supplements, wearing my hair to my shoulders like I did in the 60's , taking viagra every time I turned around, adopting today's teen fashions, going back to surfing and having lots of exercise, even truly believing I am 18, makes me 18 ? No. As to the "born eunuchs", they were malformed people or people who by nature were essentially asexual, little or no interest in sex. I personally don't care what people do with their life, provided it isn't illegal or harms someone else, it is their life. However, I resent the continuous propaganda, then viciousness, when I chose to see reality as it is, not skewed by my or anyone else's feelings.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Not irrelevant at all. DNA identifies the sex of an individual, as does body characteristics and genetalia. Gender is a social construct which has become a catch all phrase for what psychologically people feel. Ergo, I feel I should be the opposite sex, therefore I can change my gender, not sex, gender.

Gender is not a social construct. It has social aspects, but it's essentially the human interpretation of biological realities. You can change different aspects of physical sex, such as with hormone therapy. Biological sex isn't just one thing and the genetic aspects aren't completely understood, nor are they the only determinants of sex.

However, why should feelings have so much sway in people ?

It's not about "feelings". I don't "feel" that I am a man, I am a man.

I feel I should be 18, but I am 68. Does that mean that food supplements, wearing my hair to my shoulders like I did in the 60's , taking viagra every time I turned around, adopting today's teen fashions, going back to surfing and having lots of exercise, even truly believing I am 18, makes me 18 ? No.

If you want to act like you're 18, that's your choice. But it's a stupid comparison to transsexualism, which we have scientific research behind.

As to the "born eunuchs", they were malformed people or people who by nature were essentially asexual, little or no interest in sex.

No, there's no evidence they were necessarily asexual or had "deformed" genitals. The biggest thing that ties them all together is that they had no interest in marriage or sex with women.

I personally don't care what people do with their life, provided it isn't illegal or harms someone else, it is their life.

Obviously you do care enough, if you feel the need to accuse people like me of being liars.

However, I resent the continuous propaganda, then viciousness, when I chose to see reality as it is, not skewed by my or anyone else's feelings.

Now you've descended into complete ridiculousness. There is no "propaganda" and don't you dare complain to me about some "viciousness" on the Internet when someone points out how idiotic your statements are when the trans community has to deal with true viciousness and so many of us are murdered or commit suicide each day. Just the other week, a trans woman in Brazil was brutally beaten to death on film in front of her home to the cheers of a jeering crowd, yelling "kill the f****t!".

 

[shmogie]

Gender is not a social construct. It has social aspects, but it's essentially the human interpretation of biological realities. You can change different aspects of physical sex, such as with hormone therapy. Biological sex isn't just one thing and the genetic aspects aren't completely understood, nor are they the only determinants of sex.

It's not about "feelings". I don't "feel" that I am a man, I am a man.



If you want to act like you're 18, that's your choice. But it's a stupid comparison to transsexualism, which we have scientific research behind.

No, there's no evidence they were necessarily asexual or had "deformed" genitals. The biggest thing that ties them all together is that they had no interest in marriage or sex with women.

Obviously you do care enough, if you feel the need to accuse people like me of being liars.

Now you've descended into complete ridiculousness. There is no "propaganda" and don't you dare complain to me about some "viciousness" on the Internet when someone points out how idiotic your statements are when the trans community has to deal with true viciousness and so many of us are murdered or commit suicide each day. Just the other week, a trans woman in Brazil was brutally beaten to death on film in front of her home to the cheers of a jeering crowd, yelling "kill the f****t!".

 

[shmogie]

If you feel I called you a liar, I retract, and apologize, it was not my intent. You contend there is science supporting trans sexualism, I contend there is not. You contend that gender is a reflection of biological reality. I contend it is a mental and social construct that has no relationship to biological sex. You contend gender confusion or misfitting is the result of physical characteristics. I contend that it is the result of psychological factors, and that sex is determined by physical factors at birth, and cannot be changed. You can submit scientific evidence that you believe supports your contention, although none of it is positively conclusive. I can produce scientific evidence that proves physical characteristics determine sex, and that except in extremely rare cases is established at birth. I would say we disagree, and neither of us will sway the other. So it is best that we agree to disagree and leave it there. Yes, transexuals have a 40% suicide rate. It cannot be just because they are hurt by someones words or bullied. No comparable suicide rate can be found in groups brutally treated, in the Jewish ghetto's in nazi occupied city's, Christians being humiliated and abused in moslem country's, even in the population of devils island when the French starved and isolated and beat prisoners there. There IS something wrong.....................................................

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you feel I called you a liar, I retract, and apologize, it was not my intent. You contend there is science supporting trans sexualism, I contend there is not. You contend that gender is a reflection of biological reality. I contend it is a mental and social construct that has no relationship to biological sex. You contend gender confusion or misfitting is the result of physical characteristics. I contend that it is the result of psychological factors, and that sex is determined by physical factors at birth, and cannot be changed. You can submit scientific evidence that you believe supports your contention, although none of it is positively conclusive. I can produce scientific evidence that proves physical characteristics determine sex, and that except in extremely rare cases is established at birth. I would say we disagree, and neither of us will sway the other. So it is best that we agree to disagree and leave it there. Yes, transexuals have a 40% suicide rate. It cannot be just because they are hurt by someones words or bullied. No comparable suicide rate can be found in groups brutally treated, in the Jewish ghetto's in nazi occupied city's, Christians being humiliated and abused in moslem country's, even in the population of devils island when the French starved and isolated and beat prisoners there. There IS something wrong.....................................................

Trans people have a high suicide rate not only because of social stigma and discrimination, but also because of the dysphoria that we suffer from.

I'll leave it there because I'm sick of talking about it and I'm just getting angry. I'll accept your apology.

 

[shmogie]

Trans people have a high suicide rate not only because of social stigma and discrimination, but also because of the dysphoria that we suffer from.

I'll leave it there because I'm sick of talking about it and I'm just getting angry. I'll accept your apology.

Don't be angry, there will always be people who disagree with you and me. Anger as a response is simply wasted emotion and energy