Man Existed Before He Was Born

[Katzpur]

I've heard this excuse/reasoning before. So far, no one who has pitched it can reconcile needing earthly experience with children dying. Do children who die before learning this lesson (whatever it is?) get into heaven? If so, then that lesson must not be so important.

I believe it's important that we gain a body, even if that body does not reach maturity here on earth. I also believe that a child who dies before having the capability to make a distinction between right and wrong will go to heaven.

 

[Katzpur]

They have one thing in common, they both assume spirits exist.

That's true.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

there is no credible or plausible evidence from such. At this time there is ZERO proof of anything considered pre OR post mortal.

at this point in time a soul is still considered mythology, fantasy and imagination

It is clear to me you have never had an out of body experience nor do yoifu believe in such, so if I were to tell you I have it would mean nothing to you.

 

[outhouse]

It is clear to me you have never had an out of body experience nor do yoifu believe in such, so if I were to tell you I have it would mean nothing to you.

drowned when I was 5

remember the dream state while I was unconscious in the pool. Doesnt mean the body has a soul.


so again your wrong


if i had died the dream state would have stopped

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

there is no credible or plausible evidence from such. At this time there is ZERO proof of anything considered pre OR post mortal.

at this point in time a soul is still considered mythology, fantasy and imagination

Your biggest problem seems to be the the word personal in personal revelation. It does not seem to matter how many wittnesses are able to testify of these things to you, you just try to fight it because of that one word personal.

As for evidence all I need is most importantly my personal experiences and second the personal experiences of all of the others who have had experiences similar to mine.

 

[outhouse]

Your biggest problem seems to be the the word personal in personal revelation. It does not seem to matter how many wittnesses are able to testify of these things to you, you just try to fight it because of that one word personal.

As for evidence all I need is most importantly my personal experiences and second the personal experiences of all of the others who have had experiences similar to mine.

your wrong again my friend


people dream while asleep, but that is not your soul either, but a differnt state of consciousness while alive.


people who are not "all dead" have a different state of consciousness, this probably led to much of the early mythology in many primitive cultures.




doctors often place a number or picture on top of cabinets or other high places pantient's cannot see. Not one has ever revealed the number or picture, as a floating independant soul coming out of those in transitional states. EVER

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Are you really trying to tell me what my experience was?
Like I said you won't believe because you shut out all of the witnesses.
You shutting me out is only proving what I just said about you to be right.
I believe the term you use is ignorance.

 

[outhouse]

Are you really trying to tell me what my experience was?
Like I said you won't believe because you shut out all of the witnesses.
You shutting me out is only proving what I just said about you to be right.
I believe the term you use is ignorance.

so what your saying is you by yourself can prove the soul exist independant of the body?

Yes I will tell you something abour your experiance. You percieved something based on a state of consciousness.

I dont believe because there is ZERO evidence for a soul, im not shutting you out.

Im stating you dont carry any scientific credibility in a untestable event.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Exactly, even if I were awake in the event when I had my out of body experience it would never be enough for you, no matter how many wittnesses you have the only thing that you will finally be satisfied with would be your own personal experience where it is proven unto you personally. The only thing that would drive you crazy would be not being able to physically prove your personal experience.

 

[outhouse]

so what your saying is all you have is faith. sorry that is not enough to prove a afterlife we know was born in mythology that predated Israelite's

 

[confused453]

War in heaven? Are they like fighting for resources like a land or food? Are they fighting for ideas like morality?
Sounds like god likes to give limited resources to his living creations and then enjoy the show watching these living creatures destroy each other for reasons of who should have more.

 

[JustWondering]

It is clear to me you have never had an out of body experience nor do yoifu believe in such, so if I were to tell you I have it would mean nothing to you.

If having an out of body experience proved the existance of "your god" why do we not see people in other countries/cultures who worship different gods then you spontaneously becoming LDS after an out of body experience? Instead we see people having experiences that reinforce the culture/faith they're already dedicated to, or highly subjected to already. Out of body experiences can and have been stimulated/duplicated in a laboratory. So though I'm sure your experience was very moving for you, it still proves nothing. The mind plays tricks on itself all the time.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

War in heaven? Are they like fighting for resources like a land or food? Are they fighting for ideas like morality?
Sounds like god likes to give limited resources to his living creations and then enjoy the show watching these living creatures destroy each other for reasons of who should have more.

The war in heaven was a war over agency. God's plan was for us to choose to come to earth and make choices, some of which would prevent some of us returning to heaven, at that time Lucifer presented an idea where we would come to earth, have no agency and everyone would be forced to return to heaven. God rejected this plan and thus the war started and Lucifer and his followers one third of the host of heaven were thrust out for their rebellion. The war was over the spirits of men, more or less a debate for spirits are immortal.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

If having an out of body experience proved the existance of "your god" why do we not see people in other countries/cultures who worship different gods then you spontaneously becoming LDS after an out of body experience? Instead we see people having experiences that reinforce the culture/faith they're already dedicated to, or highly subjected to already. Out of body experiences can and have been stimulated/duplicated in a laboratory. So though I'm sure your experience was very moving for you, it still proves nothing. The mind plays tricks on itself all the time.

The out of body experience did not prove the existance of God, it proved the existance of my spirit. Getting answers to prayers proved the existance of God.

I have yet to see or even hear about duplicating out of body experiences in a labratory, let alone any kind of spirit study, except for in ghost busters. What kind of study are you talking about and who conducted it?

 

[confused453]

The war in heaven was a war over agency. God's plan was for us to choose to come to earth and make choices, some of which would prevent some of us returning to heaven, at that time Lucifer presented an idea where we would come to earth, have no agency and everyone would be forced to return to heaven. God rejected this plan and thus the war started and Lucifer and his followers one third of the host of heaven were thrust out for their rebellion. The war was over the spirits of men, more or less a debate for spirits are immortal.

What's wrong with living on earth, and taking a vacation in heaven from time to time?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I don't understand where you are getting at.

 

[Katzpur]

What's wrong with living on earth, and taking a vacation in heaven from time to time?

Wow! That sounds marveous! Could you tell me how to go about doing so?

 

[confused453]

Wow! That sounds marveous! Could you tell me how to go about doing so?

Only God knows how. Good luck asking God.

 

[Me Myself]

I think you have it backwards.
The saying goes "As man is God once was, and as God is man may become."
I believe Satan speaks half truths. Would you be like God knowing good and evil? Yes, for God knows good and evil. Would you die by partaking of the fruit? This was the Lie, Satan said they would not die, obviously that was not true.

The half truth here was god`s.

god of genesis didn`t allow the humans to keep eating the fruit of eternal life, this is why they eventually died. So the snake (no reason to beleve he was Satan) seems to have been telling the truth about gods lies.

It was not the eating of the fruit of knowledge that made them die, but god`s prohibition to keep apartaking on the fruit of life.

genesis god was simply being a blackmailer and a gangsta

 

[JustWondering]

The out of body experience did not prove the existance of God, it proved the existance of my spirit. Getting answers to prayers proved the existance of God.

I have yet to see or even hear about duplicating out of body experiences in a labratory, let alone any kind of spirit study, except for in ghost busters. What kind of study are you talking about and who conducted it?

[youtube]nCVzz96zKA0[/youtube]
Michael Shermer Out of Body Experiment - YouTube