Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[3rdAngel]

Sabbath Observance - The Eighteenth Century A.D.

18th Century: Romania. (1760). "Joseph ITs edict of tolerance did not apply to the Sabbatarians, some of whom again lost all their possessions." Jahrgang 2, 254.

Bohemia and Moravia. "The condition of the Sabbatarians [from 1635 to 1867] was dreadful. Their books and writings had to be delivered to the Karlsburg Consistory to become the spoil of flames." Adolf Dux, Aux Ungarn, 289-291, Leipzig, 1880.

America. Before Zinzendorf and the Moravians at Bethlehem thus began the observance of the Sabbath and prospered, there was a small body of German Sabbath keepers in Pennsylvania. See Rupp''s History of Religious Denominations in the United States, 109-123.

 

[Muffled]

Yep, some find that hard to believe

I believe it is no more difficult than believing in God. At least people were able to see and hear Jesus.

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe it is no more difficult than believing in God. At least people were able to see and hear Jesus.

Yes I think you are correct Muffled that is exactly how simple it is. Yet many choose to close their eyes and ears to God's Word because they choose to live in darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. Many would rather hear smooth things than to give up the sins that separate them from God.

 

[PearlSeeker]

1. I agree that the 10 commandments hold a central position in the Law. But just look at the first two words. It says: Shema Israel.

2. In NT Jesus is teaching that the two greatest commandments are to love your God... and to love your neighbour as yourself. This became central and highest priority.

We can see this is more essential because from this you can derive all other principles and decisions. For example commandments 1-4 can be derived from the first great commandment and 5-10 from the second. Another example is The Parable of the Good Samaritan that shows that it is more important to show mercy than to stick to the laws.

3. Jesus himself and the apostles broke the law of sabbath ...

So I don't see sabbath as obligatory and I don't see any problem if the day got shifted.

Nevertheless if someone truly loves God one will gladly devote one special day in week to God and leave other things aside for a while. A believer will see that this is beneficial for relationship with God. Every relationship needs quality time. How you spend it may vary.

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi PearlSeeker, nice to meet you and welcome. I have provided some comments below for your consideration.

1. I agree that the 10 commandments hold a central position in the Law. But just look at the first two words. It says: Shema Israel.

Your correct. According to the scriptures the name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to his people who believe and follow his Word. In the new covenant it is the same. ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow his Word. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 (from JEREMIAH 31:31-34). Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27

2. In NT Jesus is teaching that the two greatest commandments are to love your God... and to love your neighbour as yourself. This became central and highest priority.

Absolutely. According to the scriptures LOVE is the very expression of obedience to God's LAW (10 commandments) and the new covenant promise of a new heart of love *HEBREWS 8:10-12 to follow God's Law. This is why JESUS says "On these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets *MATTHEW 22:36-40. JESUS here was actually quoting from the old testament scriptures in DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18. Paul expressed the same thoughts as JESUS in ROMANS 13:8-10 as does JAMES in JAMES 2:10-11 and why PAUL says by faith in God's Word we establish the law *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4. So yep without a new heart to love (being born again by the operation of God through faith) we cannot follow JESUS as we are all sinners in need of a Savior and is why JESUS says "IF you love me keep my commandments" JOHN 14:15.

We can see this is more essential because from this you can derive all other principles and decisions. For example commandments 1-4 can be derived from the first great commandment and 5-10 from the second.

Absolutley great point! The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and how we express our love to God and the next 6 are how we express our love to our fellow man.

Another example is The Parable of the Good Samaritan that shows that it is more important to show mercy than to stick to the laws.

Well I would say here it is mercy and love that fulfills God's Law as PAUL says in ROMANS 13:8-10.

3. Jesus himself and the apostles broke the law of sabbath ...
So I don't see sabbath as obligatory and I don't see any problem if the day got shifted.
Nevertheless if someone truly loves God one will gladly devote one special day in week to God and leave other things aside for a while. A believer will see that this is beneficial for relationship with God. Every relationship needs quality time. How you spend it may vary.

According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4. JESUS never broke any one of God's 10 commandments including the Sabbath *HEBREWS 4:15 if he did he could not have been our perfect sacrifice for sin and we all would be lost because the wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23. In the days of JESUS the Scribes and Pharisees placed so many man made laws around the Sabbath that it had become a burden to the people so much so that it was like mankind was made for the Sabbath *MARK 2:27-28. JESUS came to teach is that he was the LORD of the Sabbath and creator of all things in heaven and earth and that it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath and not to follow man made teachings and traditions *MATTHEW 12:1-12. As to ROMANS 14 it is not talking about the Sabbath it is talking about eating and not eating and fasting on holy days that men esteem not what God esteems. According to God's WORD God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken and if we knowingly break it we stand guilty before God of sin and need to seek his forgiveness. Sunday is a man made teaching and tradition that breaks the commandments of God spoken about in MATTHEW 15:3-9.

Thanks for sharing Pearl. Nice to meet you

 

[Terral]

Hi 3rdAngel:

Thank you for starting this debate topic and for asking questions. You wrote:

Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

Please allow me to set the stage (if you will) for answering your excellent questions by offering a correction that the "the Lord your God" (Lamb of God = Christ) gave the Commandments to Moses (Ex. 20:2) and Israel. God worked for six days in Genesis 1 and rested in Gen. 2:1-3 for the "Lord God" (Lamb of God; Christ) to begin His consecration work on this "seventh day" in Genesis 2:4+.

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

The Lord God's 4th Commandment continues to be in full force for Israel of the flesh and the Prophetic Kingdom Bride until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19). Gentiles "who do not have the Law" (Rom. 2:14) and Christ's Body members are "not under law but under grace." Rom. 6:14. Therefore, if you are a Jew and descended from Abraham, then you are under the Law. If you have obeyed the Gospel of the Grace of God (my OP), then you have died already with Christ and are already seated with Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:4-7).

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

Jesus is the Son of God. John 1:34. Paul sets the record straight for Christ body members in writing to the Colossians, saying,

"Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." Col. 2:16-17.

The only way you can equate Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, to be "a Sabbath" day is to also accept that no one is your judge regarding accepting or denying Him as the Son of God, which is just not so. The Sabbath day given to Israel is a mere shadow of what is coming for members of Christ's body saved by God's grace through faith by obedience to our gospel.

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

No. The sons of Israel practicing Mosaic Law begin the Sabbath on Friday evening at sundown running to Saturday evening at sundown (wiki that includes your Scriptural references).

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

Some honor one day above others, "another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rom. 14:5). Therefore, you ask a very good questions, but those for whom Christ died must be careful about judging others in regard to Sabbath days.

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

See #4. The answers to your questions depend on the "dispensation" to which any given individual belongs: Israel of the flesh, the Prophetic Kingdom Bride (obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom), or the Christ Body Member, as God deals with members of different dispensations (#3622; households) in different ways.

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

The Pharisees were constantly trying to find evidence of Jesus working on the Sabbath (link) but they never were able to convict Him. That is why they finally turned him over to Pilate... Since the Holy Spirit and God's Word say that Christ "knew no sin" (2Cor. 5:21), then we can assume that Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath all the says of His life on the Earth.

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

The right answer depends on how you define "us." There is no right answer if everyone on Earth is thrown into the same household (Israel, Kingdom Bride, Mystery Body, cherubs, angels, Archangels, Nephilum, etc.). For Christians speaking English as their first language in the USA, the first day of the week is Monday. :0)

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

Perhaps this question could use a few more words to clarify the question.

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

Here is the deal about the "Sabbath" in a nutshell: Paul was a Pharisee who kept the Law all the says of his life, until the Lord God (Christ) struck him down on the road to Damascus; saving Paul by God's grace through faith apart from works. Paul had a difficult time preaching the "Gospel of the Grace of God" to the Gentiles and Jews among them on the Sabbath day (Friday night at sundown to Saturday night at sundown). The Jews would beat Paul and stone him for preaching and teaching on their Sabbath day, so Paul began doing the "Gospel of the Grace of God" thing on the following day, which for the Jews was "Sunday." Each Sunday for Jews 2000 years ago (and for many practicing Jews today) is just like "Monday" for Americans working each week from Monday-Friday having Saturday-Sunday as the weekend. Therefore, Paul could run around preaching the "Word of the Cross" to Gentiles while the Jews were starting the new week (Monday to them) and nobody bothered him. The Gentiles with Jewish friends would use their meeting places on "Sundays," because the Jews were all working and busy doing their business like Americans and most of the world does today on Mondays. Christians make the connection to Christ rising from the dead on the third day, which turns out to be a "Sunday morning" and Sunday became the day we worship God and our Lord and Savior our Lord Jesus Christ.

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

Please forgive, but apostolic writing include those from Peter, John and James (Kingdom Disciples) AND the Apostle Paul writing to the members of Christ's Body part of a totally different "dispensation" (from above).

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

Are you a Gentile member of Christ's Body obeying our Gospel of the Grace of God?? If so, then you are not under the law but under grace. If you really want to place yourself under the Law, then you must keep the WHOLE LAW (James 2:10). Good luck with that...

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

Please forgive, but the substance of your questions place everyone in the same dispensation/household, as if everyone from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation lives under the same house rules and that is simply not the case. Each of your questions can be answered by saying, "Well, that depends...". The remainder of your questions seem to repeat questions asked above.

Blessings,

Terral

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi 3rdAngel:

Hello Terral, nice to meet you and welcome here .
I provided some comments for your consideration below and appreciate your thoughts. I might break up my responses though into a few smaller posts so they are more easily read if you do not mind and ask you for some clarity if I do not quite understand everything you are posting so I do not misunderstand you.

Please allow me to set the stage (if you will) for answering your excellent questions by offering a correction that the "the Lord your God" (Lamb of God = Christ) gave the Commandments to Moses (Ex. 20:2) and Israel. God worked for six days in Genesis 1 and rested in Gen. 2:1-3 for the "Lord God" (Lamb of God; Christ) to begin His consecration work on this "seventh day" in Genesis 2:4+.

Sorry I do not know what your correction is for? Also, where does it say in GENESIS 2 God is beginning his work of consecration? Please forgive me as I am having difficulty following this section in the scriptures. Pehaps you can explain yourself here a little more?

blessings

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ 1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

Your response...

The Lord God's 4th Commandment continues to be in full force for Israel of the flesh and the Prophetic Kingdom Bride until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19). Gentiles "who do not have the Law" (Rom. 2:14) and Christ's Body members are "not under law but under grace." Rom. 6:14. Therefore, if you are a Jew and descended from Abraham, then you are under the Law. If you have obeyed the Gospel of the Grace of God (my OP), then you have died already with Christ and are already seated with Christ in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Eph. 2:4-7).

Where does it say in the scriptures that God's 4th commandment continues to be in force for ISRAEL in the flesh? According to God's Word ISRAEL is simply a name given by God to JACOB to represent his people the believe and follow God's Word *GENESIS 32:24-2. In the old covenant we have ISRAEL in the flesh in the new covenant we are in the SPIRIT that is no longer in the flesh. According to God's Word in the new covenant all those who believe and follow Gods Word are God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 9:6-8; ROMANS 2:28-29; COLOSSIANS 3:11; ROMANS 10:11-13. Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

No one is "under the law" if they through faith have confessed their sins and received God's forgiveness *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13. We are only "under the law" according to the scriptures if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law *ROMANS 3:19-20. Seeking God's forgiveness through repentance, confession of sin and faith in God's Word is what it means to obey the Gospel of Christ *MATTHEW 4:17; ACTS 2:38; 1 JOHN 1:9. 1 JOHN 2:1-4.

Now according to the scriptures for God's people God's LAW (10 commandments) give us the knowledge of "GOOD AND EVIL"; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment just like the other 9 commandments all give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th Commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has lead many to break God' s 4th commandment. JESUS warns us about this in MATTHEW 15:3-9. I believe God has his people in every Church *JOHN 10:16 who are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them and many break God's 4th commandment out of ignorance. In times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth he calls us to believe and follow his Word *ACTS 17:30-31.

If we sin willfully after we receive a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgment to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27. The hour is coming and now is that God is calling his people out wherever they may be to worship him in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24

So there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished now is there?

blessings

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ 2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

Your response...

Jesus is the Son of God. John 1:34. Paul sets the record straight for Christ body members in writing to the Colossians, saying,

This does not say JESUS is a Sabbath does it?

The Sabbath day given to Israel is a mere shadow of what is coming for members of Christ's body saved by God's grace through faith by obedience to our gospel.

According to the scriptures, God's 4th commandment Sabbath cannot be a shadow of anything and here is why...

[1]. The Sabbath was made for all mankind before ISRAEL and any JEW *MARK 2:27-28.

[2]. All the "shadow laws" in the bible were given "after sin and the fall of mankind" they all point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation from sin for all mankind and were given to Moses and written in the Mosiac book of the covenant *EXODUS 24:7. God's Sabbath which was made for all mankind "before sin" was made as part of the "finished work" of creation as a Holy day of rest for all mankind as a memorial of creation and God as the creator. When the Sabbath was made there was no sin, no Israel, no plan of salvation and no shadow laws because mankind was in perfect harmony with God *GENESIS 2:1-3.

Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the annual Jewish featival sabbath plural of the old covenant that where shadow sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) that were connected to the Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and the Feast of booths and other Holy convocations where no work was to be done. These could fall on any day of the week and strictly connected to the yearly feast days. More detailed scripture response on this topic starting; here

Hope this is helpful

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ 4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

Your response here...

Some honor one day above others, "another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rom. 14:5). Therefore, you ask a very good questions, but those for whom Christ died must be careful about judging others in regard to Sabbath days.

ROMANS 14 is not talking about God's 4th commandment. It is talking about eating and drinking and not eating and drinking on days that men esteem over other days and judging others. It is not talking about days which God esteems the things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes *LUKE 16:15. There is no mention of God's Sabbath in ROMANS 14 and Sabbath and Sunday was never a controversy in those days as all the Apostles and disciples kept it holy according to God's 4th commandment.

So there is no scripture that says we are to keep the first day of the week Holy now is there?

3rdAngel said: ↑ 5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

Your response...

See #4. The answers to your questions depend on the "dispensation" to which any given individual belongs: Israel of the flesh, the Prophetic Kingdom Bride (obeying the Gospel of the Kingdom), or the Christ Body Member, as God deals with members of different dispensations (#3622; households) in different ways.

As shown through the scriptures above. ROMANS 14 is not talking about God's 4th commandment. It is nowhere mentioned in ROMANS 14 and is not the topic of conversation in the chapter context. It is talking about eating and drinking and not eating and drinking on days that men esteem over other days and judging others. It is not talking about days which God esteems the things that men esteem are an abomination in God's eyes *LUKE 16:15. There is no mention of God's Sabbath in ROMANS 14 and Sabbath and Sunday was never a controversy in those days as all the Apostles and disciples kept it holy according to God's 4th commandment.

There is no scripture that says Sunday is a holy day now is there?

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ 6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

Your response here...

The Pharisees were constantly trying to find evidence of Jesus working on the Sabbath (link) but they never were able to convict Him. That is why they finally turned him over to Pilate... Since the Holy Spirit and God's Word say that Christ "knew no sin" (2Cor. 5:21), then we can assume that Jesus Christ kept the Sabbath all the says of His life on the Earth

Indeed so, JESUS never kept the first day of the week as a Holy day did he?

3rdAngel said: ↑ 7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

Your response...

The right answer depends on how you define "us." There is no right answer if everyone on Earth is thrown into the same household (Israel, Kingdom Bride, Mystery Body, cherubs, angels, Archangels, Nephilum, etc.). For Christians speaking English as their first language in the USA, the first day of the week is Monday. :0)

Sorry if my quetion confused you it was following the same theme as the other questions in the OP asking where is the scripture that tells us to keep Sunday in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

3rdAngel said: ↑ 8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

Your response here...

Perhaps this question could use a few more words to clarify the question.

Same as the other question. It is asking where is the scripture that gives the first day of the week and sacred name in the bible.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

Your response here...

Here is the deal about the "Sabbath" in a nutshell: Paul was a Pharisee who kept the Law all the says of his life, until the Lord God (Christ) struck him down on the road to Damascus; saving Paul by God's grace through faith apart from works. Paul had a difficult time preaching the "Gospel of the Grace of God" to the Gentiles and Jews among them on the Sabbath day (Friday night at sundown to Saturday night at sundown). The Jews would beat Paul and stone him for preaching and teaching on their Sabbath day, so Paul began doing the "Gospel of the Grace of God" thing on the following day, which for the Jews was "Sunday." Each Sunday for Jews 2000 years ago (and for many practicing Jews today) is just like "Monday" for Americans working each week from Monday-Friday having Saturday-Sunday as the weekend. Therefore, Paul could run around preaching the "Word of the Cross" to Gentiles while the Jews were starting the new week (Monday to them) and nobody bothered him. The Gentiles with Jewish friends would use their meeting places on "Sundays," because the Jews were all working and busy doing their business like Americans and most of the world does today on Mondays. Christians make the connection to Christ rising from the dead on the third day, which turns out to be a "Sunday morning" and Sunday became the day we worship God and our Lord and Savior our Lord Jesus Christ.

Where is any of this in God's Word? So you do not have any scripture that says the Apostles kept Sunday as a Sabbath do you?

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

Your response...

Please forgive, but apostolic writing include those from Peter, John and James (Kingdom Disciples) AND the Apostle Paul writing to the members of Christ's Body part of a totally different "dispensation" (from above).

So what your saying is that there is no scripture from any of the apostolic writings that authorise Sunday observance as a Sabbath right?

3rdAngel said: ↑ 11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

Your response here...

Are you a Gentile member of Christ's Body obeying our Gospel of the Grace of God?? If so, then you are not under the law but under grace. If you really want to place yourself under the Law, then you must keep the WHOLE LAW (James 2:10). Good luck with that...[

I am no longer a gentile. I am a gentile believer that is grafted in to God's ISRAEL and apart of God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:15-27. As posted above, if you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. As posted above no one is "under the law" if they through faith have confessed their sins and received God's forgiveness *ROMANS 8:1-4; 1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13. We are only "under the law" according to the scriptures if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law *ROMANS 3:19-20. Seeking God's forgiveness through repentance, confession of sin and faith in God's Word is what it means to obey the Gospel of Christ *MATTHEW 4:17; ACTS 2:38; 1 JOHN 1:9. 1 JOHN 2:1-4.

So we are not told anywhere in the scriptures not to work on the first day of the week are we?

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ 12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

Your response here...

Please forgive, but the substance of your questions place everyone in the same dispensation/household, as if everyone from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation lives under the same house rules and that is simply not the case. Each of your questions can be answered by saying, "Well, that depends...". The remainder of your questions seem to repeat questions asked above. Blessings, Terral

So there is no scripture that says that the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day right? Have a read of this section of your post and apply it to every one of God's 10 commandments. Are you saying now that those in the new covenant are now free to lie, steal, commit adultery, make idols and worship other God's? This is the reasoning you are applying to God's 4th commandment which is one of the same 10 commandments where JAMES says that if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

I hope the questions above may be a blessing to you and give you something to pray about.

God bless

 

[PearlSeeker]

Hi, 3rdAngel. Thanks for a kind reply.

Your correct. According to the scriptures the name ISRAEL is only a name given by God to his people who believe and follow his Word. In the new covenant it is the same. ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow his Word. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12 (from JEREMIAH 31:31-34). Gentile believers are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27

When decalogue was written the name Israel meant only one nation.

Absolutley great point! The first four commandments are our duty of love to God and how we express our love to God and the next 6 are how we express our love to our fellow man.

And the great commandment is superior to decalogue. It already contains the 10 commandments but it also surpasses them in many ways. First, the main tone in decalogue is prescriptive and negative - "thou shall not". Love is different. It is not something you must do or not do but something you are able if you are willing. Not primarily to escape punishment or to get a prize. It's a blessing in itself because of itself. It's the highest virtue. And there is = between love to God and love to neighbour and yourself. Second, the are many different practical expressions of love and some are not the same for all, not the same in all situations ... There is complexity of concrete life that can't be encomplassed in written rules and countless explanations and derived rules (as the Pharisees and teachers of the law were doing). Third, loving is essentially an inner inclination and movement of heart, not just what you do. Again laws are insufficient. You can be perfect according to prescribed works of law but still selfish and unloving. That's why Jesus said that our righteusness must be greater than that of Pharisses if we want to enter God's Kingdom (Matthew 5:20), first celan the inside of the cup (Matthew 23:26-28), a Richie Rich was righteous but couldn't give away his possesions (Mr 10:17-31) etc.

According to the scriptures sin is the transgression of God's LAW (10 commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4. JESUS never broke any one of God's 10 commandments including the Sabbath *HEBREWS 4:15 if he did he could not have been our perfect sacrifice for sin and we all would be lost because the wages of sin is death *ROMANS 6:23.

That's one view of sin and death. Sin literally means to miss the target. Hitting the mark is seeking purpose, transforming accordingly and because new life is awaking sin is departing. Again: God's will or purpose is love. What if aging and death of this body is just a natural process? "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

Sabbath was one of the main problems Jesus had with some Jews. Did God really go on vacation after man was created (after "the 6th day")? When Jesus was accused of braking the rest on Sabbath, he said: "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." (John 5:17)

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi, 3rdAngel. Thanks for a kind reply.

Hi Pearl, your welcome and same to you.

When decalogue was written the name Israel meant only one nation.

Indeed Pearl but keep in mind that the name "ISRAEL" is only the name given by God to those who God gave his Word and who believed and followed God's Word. The new covenant teaches that it is only those who truly believe and follow God's Word that are his people and God's true "ISRAEL" I have found this topic particularly interesting. If you are interested in seeing this from the scriptures I have posted a detailed scripture view on the name of "ISRAEL" showing the origin and linking the old and new testament scriptures here linked.

blessings

 

[3rdAngel]

And the great commandment is superior to decalogue. It already contains the 10 commandments but it also surpasses them in many ways. First, the main tone in decalogue is prescriptive and negative - "thou shall not". Love is different. It is not something you must do or not do but something you are able if you are willing. Not primarily to escape punishment or to get a prize. It's a blessing in itself because of itself. It's the highest virtue. And there is = between love to God and love to neighbour and yourself. Second, the are many different practical expressions of love and some are not the same for all, not the same in all situations ... There is complexity of concrete life that can't be encomplassed in written rules and countless explanations and derived rules (as the Pharisees and teachers of the law were doing). Third, loving is essentially an inner inclination and movement of heart, not just what you do. Again laws are insufficient. You can be perfect according to prescribed works of law but still selfish and unloving. That's why Jesus said that our righteusness must be greater than that of Pharisses if we want to enter God's Kingdom (Matthew 5:20), first celan the inside of the cup (Matthew 23:26-28), a Richie Rich was righteous but couldn't give away his possesions (Mr 10:17-31) etc.

Actually you are right but also not right at the same time. LOVE is not separate from LAW it is the "EXPRESSION" of the law and fulfills it *MATTHEW 22:36-40; ROMANS 13:8-10. It is the character of God. You cannot fulfill (do) God's law without love and is the new covnenant promise as to why we need a new heart and to be born again *JOHN 3:3-7 through the operation of God *COLOSSIAN 2:12 through faith in God's Word * EPHESIAN 2:8-9 to save us from our sins *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 8:31-36. Let's look at the scriptures...

MATTHEW 22:36-40
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like to it, You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
[40], ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

NOTE: Jesus when asked this question from the Lawyer is quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18. Finishes by saying that on the two great commandments of LOVE hang all the law and the prophets.

What does v40 mean?

LUKE 10:25-28
[25], And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tested him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[26], He said unto him, what is written in the law? how read you?
[27], And he [the Lawyer] answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbour as yourself.
[28], And he said unto him, you have answered right: this do, and you shall live.

NOTE: The lawyer knew what it means to love God and love his neighbore. How? Notice the question that the lawyer starts os by asking Jesus; "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?". Now notice that the very same question is asked again and look how Jesus answers...

MATTHEW 19:16-19
[16], And, behold, one came and said to him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[17], And he said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but IF YOU WILL ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.
[18], He said to him, Which? Jesus said, YOU SHALL DO NO MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT LIE, [19], HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and you shall love your neighbour as yourself.
Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

NOTE: Notice in that the question from the rich young ruler is the very same question as asked by the lawyer "WHAT SHALL I DO TO INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE?" but both were answered by Jesus in a different way. When the Lawer asked the question he answered his own question by saying LOVE to GOD and LOVE to his neighbor (from Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Jesus said he answered correctly. When the rich yound ruler asked the same question Jesus answered by saying keep the 10 Commandments and starts out quoting them as his duty of LOVE to his neighbor.

Is this a contradiction of scripture? In no way the answer has already been given in MATTHEW 22:36-40. ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS (LOVE TO GOD and LOVE TO MAN) HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOUR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbor...

* We will honor our parents,
* We will not kill them
* We will not commit adultery with thier spouse
* We will not steal from them
* We will not lie to them
* We will not covet what they own.

If we LOVE our God...

* We will not have other Gods
* We will not make idols and worship them
* We will not take his name [follow] him in vain
* We will remember his Sabbath and keep it holy.

ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS [OF LOVE] HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

PAUL understood what JESUS was talking about...

ROMANS 13:8-10
[8], Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law. [9], For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore, love is the fulfilling [DOING] of the law.

Notice what PAUL says here? LOVE is fulfilling [doing] God's Commandments. God's Commandments or duty towards your neighbor is summed up as you shall LOVE your neighbor as yourself v9. [On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets Matthew 22:40].

PAUL agrees with Jesus that if you LOVE you will fulfill God's LAW. What about JAMES?

JAMES 2:8-12
[8] If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself [Sums up our duty of love in the 10 Commandments Romans 13:9] , you do well: [9], But if you have respect to persons, you commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors. [10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. [12], So speak, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James is using the second great commandment of LOVE which hangs all the commandments of our duty of love to our neighbour and quotes the commandments showing our duty towards our neighbor. This is why Jesus says “On these two commandments hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets” Matthew 22:40. and again..

JOHN 14:15 [15], IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

You cannot separate LOVE from God’s LAW. Love is the FULFILLING of it and is demonstrated by OBEDIENCE to Gods’ LAW as our duty of LOVE to God and man. [“On these two commandments [of LOVE] hang ALL THE LAW and the prophets]

...................

CONCLUSION: It is very clear that JESUS, PAUL and JAMES are all in agreement that the two GREAT COMMANDMENTS of LOVE that JESUS quoted from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 were used and known in the OLD Testament scripture to sum up our duty of LOVE to God and man in the 10 Commandments.... God's LAW (Ten commandments) is not separated from LOVE it demonstrates it. You cannot have LOVE without fulfilling God's Ten Commandments. [On these two Commandments of LOVE hang all the LAW and the prophets]. RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27). Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9). God knows many do so out of ignorance and is calling his people where ever they may be back to the pure Word of God to worship him in Spirit and in truth.

blessings

 

[3rdAngel]

That's one view of sin and death. Sin literally means to miss the target. Hitting the mark is seeking purpose, transforming accordingly and because new life is awaking sin is departing. Again: God's will or purpose is love. What if aging and death of this body is just a natural process? "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)

The bible definition of sin is found in...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4], Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The text from and scripture means to "practice " ποιεῖ (poiei) sin. That is to knowingly and willfully make a habbit of sin. The Greek word used here for sin is G266 ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian) and has a number of meaning depending on the context of the scripture to wich it applies. It can mean prop: missing the mark; hence: (a) guilt, sin, (b) a fault, failure (in an ethical sense), sinful deed.

I believe all these meaning can be applied to 1 JOHN 3:4 as the mark that is being missed in the LAW. God's LAW gives us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN (if broken) AND RIGHTEOSSNESS if obeyed from the heart *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

The application of SIN being the transgression of or the breaking of any of God's 10 commandments is also made clear from PAUL in ROMANS 7:7 and ROMANS 3:20 as well as JAMES 2:10-11 who give the same meaning, definition and applicaiton to the 10 commandments as does JOHN in 1 JOHN 3:4.

So yes the application of missing the mark can be applied to sin. The mark being missed here is obedience to God's LAW (10 commandments) through faith in God's Word. There are 10 commandments that God gave us to give us a knowledge of what sin is. God's 4th commandment is one of them *EXODUS 20:8-11.

Sabbath was one of the main problems Jesus had with some Jews. Did God really go on vacation after man was created (after "the 6th day")? When Jesus was accused of braking the rest on Sabbath, he said: "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working." (John 5:17)

No brother I do not believe God went on vacation , the scripture says God rested after creation and set aside the seventh day of the creation week for mankind *MARK 2:27-28 as a memorial of creation, blessed the seventh day and made it a Holy day and commands his people to keep it as a Holy day of rest as a memorial of creation and celebration creation and God as the creator *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11.

Here is the meaning of rested from the Lexicon...

He rested (GENESIS 2:2)
וַיִּשְׁבֹּת֙ (way·yiš·bōṯ) Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person masculine singular Strong's Hebrew 7673: 1) to cease, desist, rest 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to cease 1a2) to rest, desist (from labour) 1b) (Niphal) to cease 1c) (Hiphil) 1c1) to cause to cease, put an end to 1c2) to exterminate, destroy 1c3) to cause to desist from 1c4) to remove 1c5) to cause to fail 2) (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath

It means God rested because he finished all His work of creation and kept the Sabbath that he blessed and made holy for all mankind *MARK 2:27-28

Blessings Pearl

 

[3rdAngel]

When decalogue was written the name Israel meant only one nation.

Indeed, my earlier post though was that there was no law when the Sabbath was made for all mankind *MARK 3:37-38, because there was no sin, the same as there was no ISRAEL.

 

[Terral]

Hi 3rdAngel:

Thank you for responding. You wrote:

Sorry I do not know what your correction is for? Also, where does it say in GENESIS 2 God is beginning his work of consecration? Please forgive me as I am having difficulty following this section in the scriptures. Pehaps you can explain yourself here a little more? blessings

Yes. Thank you for opening the door for clarifying statements. God (Elohim) is working in Genesis 1 reconstituting the "made void" broken remains of the Earth from Genesis 1:1. God continues working right up and until we see these words that open Genesis 2:

"Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." Genesis 2:1-3.

Scripture says that God rested on the seventh day, God ended His work He had done, and He rested, so on and so forth, leaving no doubt that God is definitely resting on this current seventh day. However, then we see the "Lord God" (YHVH Elohim) going to work on this seventh day doing His consecration work of a High Priest:

"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven....". Gen. 2:4.

God from Genesis 1 is "The Almighty" (Rev. 1:8) and the Lord God is the "High Priest" working on this seventh day we know as our Lord Jesus Christ:

"Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need." Hebrews 4:14-16.

God is resting at the same time that His Only Begotten Son is working as High Priest doing the consecration work with creation of the Garden and Adam who is made for the Garden. See my OP on the Differences Between God and My Father Who is in Heaven here for more information.

Blessings,

Terral