Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[3rdAngel]

I trust in God's forgiveness if we are in error because we celebrate one day later.

I agree. There are more important things.

According to the scriptures I believe sin is defined as breaking any one of God's 10 commandments in the new testament *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. We do not receive God's forgiveness for sin unless we repent of our sins (turn away from them) *PROVERBS 26:13 and confess them to God *1 JOHN 1:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and believe God has forgiven us for our sins that we turn away from *JOHN 5:24. I believe according to the scriptures that if we continue in known unrepentant sin, when God gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word there remains no more sacrifice for sin but only a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *ACTS 17-30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-27

God bless

 

[PearlSeeker]

@3dAngel

Currently I'm fully convinced I'm not braking the 4th commandment so I have nothing to repent (for now).

One man regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. /... / Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. (Romans 14)

 

[3rdAngel]

@3dAngel

Currently I'm fully convinced I'm not braking the 4th commandment so I have nothing to repent (for now).

One man regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. /... / Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. (Romans 14)

Hi Pearl, nice to see you. It is not up to me to convince you of anything. I believe it is God's Word and Spirit that should be our authority, guide and teacher in life. If you can find any fault in what I have shared with you I am happy to hear it from you.

If you cannot than it is up to you to believe and follow God's Word. For example I believe your application of ROMANS 14 is not in regards to the Sabbath but to eating and not eating, fasting and not fasting on days that men esteem over other days and judging one another in regards to the above.

It is not talking about days that God esteems and the scripture also says that the things men esteem are an abomination to God *LUKE 16:15. There is no mention of God's 4th commandment Sabbath anywhere in ROMANS 14 check it for yourself.

It is a scripture people try to read the Sabbath into that is not there. The Sabbath was never a subject of controversy in the bible. It was always kept according to the scriptures by JESUS and the Apostles and all of the early church unbroken to this very present day.

There is no scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Does this not concern you? It should.

I believe God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20 and if we knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments I believe the scriptures teach we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11, and sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10; 1 JOHN 2:3-4 and REVELATION 14:12

blessings.

 

[Muffled]

1. I agree that the 10 commandments hold a central position in the Law. But just look at the first two words. It says: Shema Israel.

2. In NT Jesus is teaching that the two greatest commandments are to love your God... and to love your neighbour as yourself. This became central and highest priority.

We can see this is more essential because from this you can derive all other principles and decisions. For example commandments 1-4 can be derived from the first great commandment and 5-10 from the second. Another example is The Parable of the Good Samaritan that shows that it is more important to show mercy than to stick to the laws.

3. Jesus himself and the apostles broke the law of sabbath ...

So I don't see sabbath as obligatory and I don't see any problem if the day got shifted.

Nevertheless if someone truly loves God one will gladly devote one special day in week to God and leave other things aside for a while. A believer will see that this is beneficial for relationship with God. Every relationship needs quality time. How you spend it may vary.

I believe that all I am really required to do is what Jesus wants me to do. I do not live by the law but by every word proceeding from the mouth of God.

 

[Muffled]

Your response here...


Where is any of this in God's Word? So you do not have any scripture that says the Apostles kept Sunday as a Sabbath do you?

I don't care if there is or is not Jesus is happy to have me worship on Sunday and that is good enough for me.

 

[Muffled]

@3dAngel

Currently I'm fully convinced I'm not braking the 4th commandment so I have nothing to repent (for now).

One man regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. /... / Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. (Romans 14)

I believe a person can be convinced he is doing right and not be. So as the voice of God I will tell you that my judgment is that I am happy to have you worship and you have nothing to repent in that regard.

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe that all I am really required to do is what Jesus wants me to do. I do not live by the law but by every word proceeding from the mouth of God.

According to the scriptures I believe, no one is doing what JESUS wants them to do if they are breaking God's commandments. I believe this is made very clear in the scriptures..

1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Sin is defined in the bible as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7. According to the scriptures I believe if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin.

According to the scriptures those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-39. Practicing sin is the difference between the children of God and the chidren of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10; MATTHEW 7:22-23.

God knows many do this out of ignorance and in times if ignorance he does not hold us accountable for sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth he calls us to believe and follow his Word *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17. If we reject God's Word there remains no more sacrirfice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come *HEBREWS 10:26-27. This is why JESUS says "IF you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15.

blessings

 

[3rdAngel]

Ok trying to get back on topic as there has not been anyone as yet that has been able to address the OP and provide scripture that answers a single question in the OP even after 19 pages of discussion. Seems like people wish to talk about anything else except the OP?

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

.............

Who do you believe and follow? God's Word or the teaching and traditions of men that JESUS warns us about in MATTHEW 15:3-9? If you cannot find a single scripture to answer the questions in the OP and there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says God's 4th commandment has not been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day should we be more worried about breaking God's commandments which is sin rather than following man made teachings that are not biblical?

Something to think about and look into further don't you think? According to the scriptures sin which is defined in the scriptures as knowingly breaking any one of God's 10 commandments 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11; ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17, will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow are not God's sheep *JOHN 10:26-27. Who do you believe and follow; the Church or God's Word?

 

[3rdAngel]

I don't care if there is or is not Jesus is happy to have me worship on Sunday and that is good enough for me.

Depends if you believe the scriptures or not. JESUS says if you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. I believe the scriptures teach that God's 4th Commandments are one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when we brake them and God's 4th commandments is our duty of love to God *MATTHEW 22:36-40. If we knowingly break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin whey they have been given a knowledge of the truth do not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the glood of the covenant an unholy thing *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-39. No one shows there love to God by not doing what he asks us to do.

 

[3rdAngel]

Ok trying to get back on topic as there has not been anyone as yet that has been able to address the OP and provide scripture that answers a single question in the OP even after 19 pages of discussion. Seems like people wish to talk about anything else except the OP?

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

.............

Who do you believe and follow? God's Word or the teaching and traditions of men that JESUS warns us about in MATTHEW 15:3-9? If you cannot find a single scripture to answer the questions in the OP and there is not a single scripture in all the bible that says God's 4th commandment has not been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day should we be more worried about breaking God's commandments which is sin rather than following man made teachings that are not biblical?

Something to think about and look into further don't you think? According to the scriptures sin which is defined in the scriptures as knowingly breaking any one of God's 10 commandments 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11; ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17, will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27; MATTHEW 7:22-26; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. Sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6-10.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow are not God's sheep *JOHN 10:26-27. Who do you believe and follow; the Church or God's Word?

I guess even after 19 + pages we still have no answers for a single question posed in the OP? Something to seriously think about I guess for those professing the name of Chrsit. According to JESUS "Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven" *MATTHEW 7:22.

God's sheep hear his Voice.

 

[Muffled]

Depends if you believe the scriptures or not. JESUS says if you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. I believe the scriptures teach that God's 4th Commandments are one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when we brake them and God's 4th commandments is our duty of love to God *MATTHEW 22:36-40. If we knowingly break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin whey they have been given a knowledge of the truth do not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the glood of the covenant an unholy thing *ACTS 17:30-31; HEBREWS 10:26-39. No one shows there love to God by not doing what he asks us to do.

I believe if God is telling you to worship on Sunday and you refuse and worship on Saturday instead that you are directly disobeying God and the the commandment of the Sabbath.

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe if God is telling you to worship on Sunday and you refuse and worship on Saturday instead that you are directly disobeying God and the the commandment of the Sabbath.

Trouble is that there is not one scripture in all of the bible that says God's Seventh day Sabbath has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is simply a man-made tradition and teaching that has lead many to break the commandments of God. JESUS warns us about this in MATTHEW 15:3-9 and tells us all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God. Does that not worry you? It should. This has been prophesied in Daniel 7:24-25; God has his people in every Church who are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them. However the hour is coming and now is that God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure words of God REVELATION 18:1-5.

God's sheep hear his Voice (the Word). Those who are not his sheep will not hear.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

Spoken and written by god himself!!! Good one, lol

 

[metis]

In the Gospels, Acts, and the epistles, it is made quite clear that the leadership of the Church can make changes if necessary, and undoubtedly this would periodically need to be done in order to adjust to changes. And these changes also include the Bible that most people use, the canon of which was not decided upon until the 4th century.

So, it is illogical to say that the Church supposedly can't change the primary day of worship but supposedly can select the Biblical canon that even those in the SDA use. Logically, the Bible did not select itself.

 

[3rdAngel]

In the Gospels, Acts, and the epistles, it is made quite clear that the leadership of the Church can make changes if necessary, and undoubtedly this would periodically need to be done in order to adjust to changes. And these changes also include the Bible that most people use, the canon of which was not decided upon until the 4th century.

So, it is illogical to say that the Church supposedly can't change the primary day of worship but supposedly can select the Biblical canon that even those in the SDA use. Logically, the Bible did not select itself.

Nonsense. Please provide me the scripture that says that the traditions and teachings of the church can override the authority of God and his Word. In fact it is the very words of JESUS that says if we knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God in MATTHEW 15:2-9. It was Peter that also says we ought to obey God rather then man *ACTS 5:29. The teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God according to the scripture lead us away from God not to him. I suggest you prayerfully consider who you give your allegience to God or man. The scriptures teach cursed is every man that trusts in man and makes flesh his arm.

 

[metis]

Nonsense. Please provide me the scripture that says that the traditions and teachings of the church can override the authority of God and his Word. In fact it is the very words of JESUS that says if we knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God in MATTHEW 15:2-9. It was Peter that also says we ought to obey God rather then man *ACTS 5:29. The teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God according to the scripture lead us away from God not to him. I suggest you prayerfully consider who you give your allegience to God or man. The scriptures teach cursed is every man that trusts in man and makes flesh his arm.

Again, where did your Bible come from and who made that decision? Using your "logic", we should throw our Bibles into the trash because it was written by and chosen by men.

 

[3rdAngel]

Again, where did your Bible come from and who made that decision? Using your "logic", we should throw our Bibles into the trash because it was written by and chosen by men.

Hi Metis, you did not respond to the content of the post you are quoting from. Did you want to comment on what you were quoting from? As to your post here? Not really. According to the scriptures the bible is given to us from God through men inspired by God's Spirit to give us God's Word *2 TIMOTHY 3:16. There is nothing wrong with traditions if it leads people to God and his Word. JESUS says that all those who knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God. All that do so are being lead away from God and his Word *MATTHEW 15:2-9.

 

[metis]

Hi Metis, you did not respond to the content of the post you are quoting from. Did you want to comment on what you were quoting from? As to your post here? Not really. According to the scriptures the bible is given to us from God through men inspired by God's Spirit to give us God's Word *2 TIMOTHY 3:16. There is nothing wrong with traditions if it leads people to God and his Word. JESUS says that all those who knowingly follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God. All that do so are being lead away from God and his Word *MATTHEW 15:2-9.

You again miss the point that it was the Church made up of men that chose your Bible, and that process took over 1/2 century, and still there were a series of books being disputed that they couldn't resolve on whether they should be part of the canon or not.

BTW, the NT reference to "God's Word" relates only to the Tanakh as most of the NT hadn't yet been even written. Even the Tanakh hadn't yet been canonized by either the Christian or Jewish leaders.

Thus, some simply do not accept Jesus' own words on the powers invested in the Apostles and their appointees, and yet they claim to believe in the Bible. Sorry, but ya can't have it both ways.

Anyhow, moving on...

 

[3rdAngel]

You again miss the point that it was the Church made up of men that chose your Bible, and that process took over 1/2 century, and still there were a series of books being disputed that they couldn't resolve on whether they should be part of the canon or not.

BTW, the NT reference to "God's Word" relates only to the Tanakh as most of the NT hadn't yet been even written. Even the Tanakh hadn't yet been canonized by either the Christian or Jewish leaders.

Thus, some simply do not accept Jesus' own words on the powers invested in the Apostles and their appointees, and yet they claim to believe in the Bible. Sorry, but ya can't have it both ways.

Anyhow, moving on...

I believe it is you who is missing the point here. The bible is the Word of God. Your trying to argue that man can change God's Word when JESUS says that those who knowingly follow the teachings and tradititions of men that break the commandments of God are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. Now the rest of your argument as to how God's Word (the scriptures) were put together is irrelavent because you assume that God was not in control of his own words and the compilation of the scriptures put into the bible. The teachings of the Apostles are to follow JESUS and his Word through the scriptures. It is both the NT and the OT that are the two great witnesses that are the Word of God that testify of JESUS who is the living Word of God this is verified in JOHN 1:1-4; 14. The OT pointed forward to the coming of JESUS while the NT points back for all those living before Christ and to all those living after Christ. There is no having it both ways. The bible is the Word of God and as the Apostle PETER says "We ought to obey God rather then man" ACTS 5:29 and according to JESUS it will be the very Word of God that will be our judge come judgement day if we do not. *JOHN 12:47-48.

Hope this is helpful

 

[metis]

The bible is the Word of God.

Which is an example of what is called "idolatry". The Bible is not God, so elevating it to divine status is what "idolatry" actually is. And any Biblical scholar well knows that it is not inerrant, such as the hundreds of spelling errors in John's gospel in the oldest manuscripts we have. [source: Dr. William Barclay]

The Church chose the Bible, not the Bible choosing the Church, and that simply is a historical and theological fact. So, go ahead with your "alternative facts" if you like, but the Truth is actually very different than what you're posting here.