Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[3rdAngel]

You probably don’t believe the earth is round either. You seem to disbelieve a great deal about reality.

It is given to the blind to have eyes to see and ears to hear and the lame to walk while those saying they see do not see, those saying they hear do not hear and those saying they walk do not walk. This is because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. It is said they that be whole do not need the physician but those that are sick seek him. Many do not know the meaning. Who can look into the mirror that God gives to see who they are? These are those the look into the mirror and see God. The natural man does not see God or His Spirit neither can he know them because in his mind they are foolishness. The light shines in darkness; but the darkness does not understand neither comes to the light because his works are not manifest in God. It is hard to see when one chooses to close their eyes.

 

[sojourner]

Not really, it is your denial of the scriptures that is causing your confusion

When have I ever, ever said, “I deny the scriptures?” There’s a yuge difference between being realistic about the texts and disbelieving them.

 

[sojourner]

No, I list only God's Words as truth *JOHN 17:17 and see you do not believe them.

Look at the little white box across the page from your avatar. It says, “religion: truth.” That’s something you typed in. You list your religion ad “truth.” Did you mean to list it as “head-in-the-sand?”

 

[sojourner]

Some will choose to remain lost. Many are called and few are chosen because wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many there be that go in thereat but narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it. There is nothing hidden that shall not ben made plain come judgement day. God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God). Those who do not hear and follow are not God's Sheep.

And God’s boundless love will outlast their stubbornness. The difference between you message and mine is that yours is devoid of hope.

 

[sojourner]

It is given to the blind to have eyes to see and ears to hear and the lame to walk while those saying they see do not see, those saying they hear do not hear and those saying they walk do not walk. This is because spiritual things are spiritually discerned. It is said they that be whole do not need the physician but those that are sick seek him. Many do not know the meaning. Who can look into the mirror that God gives to see who they are? These are those the look into the mirror and see God. The natural man does not see God or His Spirit neither can he know them because in his mind they are foolishness. The light shines in darkness; but the darkness does not understand neither comes to the light because his works are not manifest in God. It is hard to see when one chooses to close their eyes.

That’s very cute. But it doesn’t address my point about how you dismiss large portions of reality in your posts. If your eyes were so opened, you would embrace reality. Part of reality is that we are all natural. We are made of the same physical stuff as the rest of the universe. Your thinking would divorce us from the created order and its realism and innate wisdom, in favor of some amorphous “spiritual” something that the Bible had no intention of setting forth. We are all innately beings of light, so your biblical-sounding platitudes just don’t wash.

 

[3rdAngel]

When have I ever, ever said, “I deny the scriptures?” There’s a yuge difference between being realistic about the texts and disbelieving them.

I believe all through this thread and elswhere in other conversations we have had you deny God's Word because you do not believe they are Gods Word. It seems to me you do not know what you believe. For me I believe only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over man made teaching and traditions that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who follow man made teachings and tradtions that break God's commandments are not following God *MATTHEW 15:2-9.

 

[3rdAngel]

Look at the little white box across the page from your avatar. It says, “religion: truth.” That’s something you typed in. You list your religion ad “truth.” Did you mean to list it as “head-in-the-sand?”

God's Word is truth. It is my religion. Read the scriptures *JOHN 17:17 it seems you and your friend @Dan From Smithville do not believe them.

 

[3rdAngel]

And God’s boundless love will outlast their stubbornness. The difference between you message and mine is that yours is devoid of hope.

God's love will always outlast the stubborness of mankind because God is love. It is sin that separates us from God and those who cling to sin end up in the lake of fire. God is not willing that anyone should perish and be lost but that all should hear, believe and follow his Words. Those who reject God's Word reject God and there remains for them no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come because those doing so reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. Do you know these scriptures and what they mean?

 

[3rdAngel]

That’s very cute. But it doesn’t address my point about how you dismiss large portions of reality in your posts. If your eyes were so opened, you would embrace reality. Part of reality is that we are all natural. We are made of the same physical stuff as the rest of the universe. Your thinking would divorce us from the created order and its realism and innate wisdom, in favor of some amorphous “spiritual” something that the Bible had no intention of setting forth. We are all innately beings of light, so your biblical-sounding platitudes just don’t wash.

Sure it does. What you were quoting from is scripture. They are not my words but God's Words. Perhaps you did not realise this because you do not know them or you do not believe them.

 

[sojourner]

I believe

Once again, your beliefs have no bearing on reality.

For me

This right here is the operative term in your posts. “For Me” assumes that what you say is not only for you, but “for everyone.” But that's not the case. Your thinking is not the center of human thought. Don’t you realize that the texts are multivalent, and that several people can read the same text and arrive at different legitimate interpretations?

God's Word is truth. It is my religion

And what, precisely, is God’s Word? Can you define it succinctly? Or does it mean whatever you want it to mean in the moment?

God's love will always outlast the stubborness of mankind because God is love

Uh, huh. Now read below:

It is sin that separates us from God and those who cling to sin end up in the lake of fire

So, in what way is “winding up in the lake of fire” God’s love outlasting human stubbornness?

God is not willing that anyone should perish and be lost

Uh huh. And this is in direct opposition to what you say below:

Those who reject God's Word reject God and there remains for them no more sacrefice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come

If God wills something, it comes to pass. If God is not willing that any should perish, why does there even need to be a like of fire for people to perish in?

What you were quoting from is scripture. They are not my words but God's Words

Used disingenuously.

 

[3rdAngel]

Once again, your beliefs have no bearing on reality.

Sure they do. As posted earlier I believe and follow God's Word over the teachings and tradtitions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. I believe your belief have no bearing in reality because you do not believe and follow God's Word. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's Sheep *JOHN 10:26-27.

This right here is the operative term in your posts. “For Me” assumes that what you say is not only for you, but “for everyone.” But that's not the case.

Sure it is. God's Word is for everyone and whosoever believes will not perish but have everlasting life. Those who do not believe are condemned already because they have not believed on the name (the Word of God) of the only begotten Son of God.

And what, precisely, is God’s Word? Can you define it succinctly? Or does it mean whatever you want it to mean in the moment?

You ask the same questions that have already been answered is it because you like hearing the answer? All scriptures in given by inspiration of God *2 TIMOTHY 3:16 and we are to live by every word of it *MATTHEW 4:4

So, in what way is “winding up in the lake of fire” God’s love outlasting human stubbornness?

Our salvation is conditional on believeing and following God's Word. The devils believe but do not follow. Are you really a teacher in the church and do not know these things?

Uh huh. And this is in direct opposition to what you say below:

Uh huh, God does not save people that refuse to be saved and do not believe and follow his Word.

If God wills something, it comes to pass. If God is not willing that any should perish, why does there even need to be a like of fire for people to perish in?

The scriptures say that God is not willing that any should perish this is conditioned on all coming to a knowledge of the truth by believing and following God's Word through repentance of sin and through faith following his Word. Those who chose not to believe and follow God's Word deny the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing. What do you think HEBREWS 10:26-39 means?

Used disingenuously.

Empty words your not able to prove because you do not believe Gods Word or know the scriptures..

 

[sojourner]

Sure they do. As posted earlier I believe and follow God's Word over the teachings and tradtitions of men that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. I believe your belief have no bearing in reality because you do not believe and follow God's Word.

Circular reasoning.

Sure it is. God's Word is for everyone and whosoever believes will not perish but have everlasting life

But it’s not for anyone who believes or interprets anything differently from you. Your belief is all that matters for everyone. No one other than you is entitled to a personal belief. We must all conform to your belief. But that’s not How This Works.

You ask the same questions that have already been answered is it because you like hearing the answer? All scriptures in given by inspiration of God

So, “all scripture” is the “Word of God.” That’s the definition. But you don’t believe “all scripture.” “Scripture” is simply “religious writing.” You don’t believe or follow Thomas, for example, even though it’s religious writing — not even when the same Jesus quotes found therein are included in the Synoptics.

So, we’re going to need a real, working definition of “scripture.” What, exactly, do you mean by “scripture?

Our salvation is conditional on believeing and following God's Word

But love is unconditional. Read 1 Cor. 13. “Love does not insist on its own way.” Therefore God’s love cannot, by biblical definition, insist on us believing the Bible.

Uh huh, God does not save people that refuse to be saved and do not believe and follow his Word

See above. Also: Your statement makes the Atonement ineffective. Jesus died for nothing, if Jesus did not die for the human family. Because God is not willing that even one should be lost.

The scriptures say that God is not willing that any should perish this is conditioned on all coming to a knowledge of the truth by believing and following God's Word through repentance of sin and through faith following his Word

No! It’s not conditional. It can’t be by definition.
Read up on Philippians 2. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.”

 

[3rdAngel]

Circular reasoning.

Not really. It all depends if you believe the scriptures are true or not. I believe God's Word is true according to the scriptures *ROMANS 3:4 so there is no circular reasoning for me. There may be for you as you are making claims you cannot prove through the scriptures which is what we are discussing so your argument is a logical fallacy.

But it’s not for anyone who believes or interprets anything differently from you. Your belief is all that matters for everyone. No one other than you is entitled to a personal belief. We must all conform to your belief. But that’s not How This Works

Not really. God's Word is for all mankind. You are free to believe or not believe and follow God's Word. I choose to believe and follow God's Word. It seems you choose not to believe God's Word or follow it.

So, “all scripture” is the “Word of God.” That’s the definition. But you don’t believe “all scripture.” “Scripture” is simply “religious writing.” You don’t believe or follow Thomas, for example, even though it’s religious writing — not even when the same Jesus quotes found therein are included in the Synoptics.

I believe all scriptures is exactly what it says. All scriptures is given by inspiration of God as given to us through his Word (the Bible). I believe anything outside of the bible is not God's Word. I also believe God is in control of His Word and will no return unto him void. Today this is proven as God's Word is written in nearly every language of the world and is given to all peoples of the world. God is in control of His Word. God is amazing isn't he yet I believe you do not see this. Praise God for the good news of his Word. His words are a blessing or a curse. A blessing to all those who believe and follow it and a curse to all those who do not believe and do not follow.

But love is unconditional. Read 1 Cor. 13. “Love does not insist on its own way.” Therefore God’s love cannot, by biblical definition, insist on us believing the Bible.

God's love is only revealed in the light of the truth of God's Word. What is not the truth is the darkness of lies. This is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God. It is true God does not insist on us believing His Word. That does not mean we are not held accountable for not believing and following it. What do you think the scriptures mean *HEBREWS 10:26-39; ISAIAH 13:11; PROVERBS 11:21; ECCLESIASTES 8:11; MATTHEW 25:46; ISAIAH 3:11; PSALMS 91:8; EZEKIEL 3:18; 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9; EZEKIEL 18:20; PSALMS 34:21; PSALMS 58:10; PSALMS 11:6; 2 PETER 2:9; PROVERBS 17:15; JOB 34:26; PROVERBS 10:16; PROVERBS 21:18; PSALMS 28:4; JOB 21:19; PROVERBS 16:4; EZEKIEL 18:21; PROVERBS 5:22; EZEKIEL 18:23; HOSEA 4:9; MATTHEW 25:41; EZEKIEL 33:11; PSALMS 59:5; PSALMS 37:34; JOB 31:3; JOHN 3:18-21; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. Are you a really a teacher in a church that does not know these things?

See above. Also: Your statement makes the Atonement ineffective. Jesus died for nothing, if Jesus did not die for the human family. Because God is not willing that even one should be lost.

See above, the atonement is only for all those who believe and follow God's Word. Those who do not believe and follow God's Word the scriptures teach count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

No! It’s not conditional. It can’t be by definition. Read up on Philippians 2. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.”

Nonsense. It is true every knee both righteous and wicked will confess that JESUS is LORD. It does not teach that everyone receives God's salvation. As shown above in the scriptures listed only those who believe and follow God's Word receive everlasting life. Those who reject Gods' Word do not receive life. Are you are teacher of a church that does not know these things?

 

[sojourner]

Not really. It all depends if you believe the scriptures are true or not

But it seems that you determine what that truth is, based on a very shallow and one-dimensional reading of the texts.

Not really. God's Word is for all mankind

If the Bible is for everyone, and the atonement depends upon the Bible, then you’re statement below is false. The atonement is for everyone, if the Bible is for everyone.

I believe anything outside of the bible is not God's Word

Which bible? There are several canons of scripture. And by whose express authority do you believe your canon is “the” canon?

God's love is only revealed in the light of the truth of God's Word

False. God’s love is revealed in the created order, according to the Psalms. It’s revealed in compassion, according to Jesus.

See above, the atonement is only for all those who believe and follow God's Word

See above. This statement doesn’t follow from your previous statement. Additionally, if the atonement is only for those who believe the Bible, then what about those who had no bible? There was no canon for the first 450 years of the church. Those early Christians are all condemned, because there was no bible for them to believe in.

Nonsense. It is true every knee both righteous and wicked will confess that JESUS is LORD. It does not teach that everyone receives God's salvation

Yes it does. To confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father is to believe in the Word (as in John 1). And, according to you, to believe in the Word is to receive salvation.

 

[3rdAngel]

But it seems that you determine what that truth is, based on a very shallow and one-dimensional reading of the texts.

Not really the scriptures teach who shall God teach knowledge? Them that are drawn from the breasts and weaned from the milk for line shall be upon line and precept upon precept. God reveals himself to babes and makes the wisdom of the wise foolishness. Do you not know God is the teacher of all those who believe and follow his Word *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17; 1 JOHN 2:27?

If the Bible is for everyone, and the atonement depends upon the Bible, then you’re statement below is false. The atonement is for everyone, if the Bible is for everyone.

Circular reasoning based on logical fallacy. As posted earlier in the section you disregard in the same post the scriptures teach the atonement is only for all those who believe and follow God's Word. Those who do not believe and follow God's Word the scriptures teach count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

Which bible? There are several canons of scripture. And by whose express authority do you believe your canon is “the” canon?

For me I use many of them and look at the Hebrew and Greek using other tools (lexicons, Hebrew and Greek dictionaries; concordences etc). None of these are any use however if God is not your guide and teacher *JOHN 14:26. God only needs one version of the bible to lead someone into His truth.

False. God’s love is revealed in the created order, according to the Psalms. It’s revealed in compassion, according to Jesus.

Nonsense. God love is revealed in truth not in falsehood. Lies come from the father of lies as God cannot lie. As the scriptures teach And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

See above. This statement doesn’t follow from your previous statement. Additionally, if the atonement is only for those who believe the Bible, then what about those who had no bible? There was no canon for the first 450 years of the church. Those early Christians are all condemned, because there was no bible for them to believe in.

Sure it does the atonement is only for those who believe and follow God's Word. The evidence is supplied in the scriptures you did not read or quote from here. See *HEBREWS 10:26-39; ISAIAH 13:11; PROVERBS 11:21; ECCLESIASTES 8:11; MATTHEW 25:46; ISAIAH 3:11; PSALMS 91:8; EZEKIEL 3:18; 2 THESSALONIANS 1:9; EZEKIEL 18:20; PSALMS 34:21; PSALMS 58:10; PSALMS 11:6; 2 PETER 2:9; PROVERBS 17:15; JOB 34:26; PROVERBS 10:16; PROVERBS 21:18; PSALMS 28:4; JOB 21:19; PROVERBS 16:4; EZEKIEL 18:21; PROVERBS 5:22; EZEKIEL 18:23; HOSEA 4:9; MATTHEW 25:41; EZEKIEL 33:11; PSALMS 59:5; PSALMS 37:34; JOB 31:3; JOHN 3:18-21; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. Are you a really a teacher in a church that does not know these things?

Yes it does. To confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father is to believe in the Word (as in John 1). And, according to you, to believe in the Word is to receive salvation.

Nonsense. the devils believe but will not enter into God's Kingdom, neither to any of those who follow them. Are you sure your a teacher in a church and you do not know these things?

 

[sojourner]

Not really the scriptures teach who shall God teach knowledge?

This doesn’t answer the question. What you’re providing with your textual references is a biased interpretation.

Circular reasoning based on logical fallacy

Well... it’s your argument! I suggest you revisit it and fix the errors.

For me I use many of them and look at the Hebrew and Greek using other tools (lexicons, Hebrew and Greek dictionaries; concordences etc)

Wait... I thought scholarship (lexicons, dictionaries, concordances, etc) were of no use, because God hid the truth from the wise. That’s what you said. you really need to make up your mind.

Nonsense. God love is revealed in truth not in falsehood. Lies come from the father of lies as God cannot lie. As the scriptures teach And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

So the Psalms are nonsense. Good to know. Jesus’ teachings using nature as examples is BS. Good to know.

Sure it does the atonement is only for those who believe and follow God's Word

You have yet to reveal exactly what “God’s word” is. For example: are Sirach, Maccabees, Thomas, Esdras, the Shepherd of Hermas “God’s word?” They are included in various canons, or are considered by textual scholars to be authentic.

Nonsense. the devils believe but will not enter into God's Kingdom, neither to any of those who follow them

The devils don’t believe “to the glory of God.” A difference you conveniently ignored.

 

[3rdAngel]

This doesn’t answer the question. What you’re providing with your textual references is a biased interpretation.

Not at all. I am only providing textual references as evidence to support what I am sharing with you though it seems you do not believe them.

Well... it’s your argument! I suggest you revisit it and fix the errors.

Not really it was you who posted that...

sojourner said: ↑ If the Bible is for everyone, and the atonement depends upon the Bible, then you’re statement below is false. The atonement is for everyone, if the Bible is for everyone

I simply responded by saying your claim here is circular reasoning based on logical fallacy. As posted earlier in the section you disregard in the same post the scriptures teach the atonement is only for all those who believe and follow God's Word. Those who do not believe and follow God's Word the scriptures teach count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing and do despite to the Spirit of Grace *HEBREWS 10:26-39.

3rdAngel said: ↑ For me I use many of them and look at the Hebrew and Greek using other tools (lexicons, Hebrew and Greek dictionaries; concordences etc)

Your response..

Wait... I thought scholarship (lexicons, dictionaries, concordances, etc) were of no use, because God hid the truth from the wise. That’s what you said. you really need to make up your mind.

There is nothing wrong with using dictionaries lexicons and concordences to give you a better understnading of Hebrew and Greek word translations in comparison of the bible translations. Where scholarship falls down is if your relying on it to understand what the scriptures are talking about. Even the scholars do not agree. The only way to know Gods Word is through his Spirit *JOHN 14:26 this is Gods new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:11 to those who continue to believe and follow his Word.

So the Psalms are nonsense. Good to know. Jesus’ teachings using nature as examples is BS. Good to know.

Nonsense the teachings of JESUS and the Apostles are true. As posted earlier, God love is revealed in truth not in falsehood. Lies come from the father of lies as God cannot lie. As the scriptures teach And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You have yet to reveal exactly what “God’s word” is. For example: are Sirach, Maccabees, Thomas, Esdras, the Shepherd of Hermas “God’s word?” They are included in various canons, or are considered by textual scholars to be authentic.

I am sorry I do not believe Sirach, Maccabees, Thomas, Esdras, the Shepherd of Hermas are Gods Word as they are sources not included in the bible. You have been provided a tone of scripture already from the bible which is God's Word. If you do not believe the scriptures provided in God's Word, it will make no difference what other sources I provided outside of Gods Word that will help you to believe God's Word.

The devils don’t believe “to the glory of God.” A difference you conveniently ignored.

Not at all. According to the scriptures the devils may believe but do not follow God's Word to the glory of God as do those who follow them.

 

[sojourner]

Not at all. I am only providing textual references as evidence to support what I am sharing with you though it seems you do not believe them

I don’t believe they say what you say they say.

Not really it was you who posted that...

I simply responded by saying your claim here is circular reasoning based on logical fallacy

No, I was recapping what you posted. don’t gaslight.

There is nothing wrong with using dictionaries lexicons and concordences to give you a better understnading of Hebrew and Greek word translations in comparison of the bible translations. Where scholarship falls down is if your relying on it to understand what the scriptures are talking about

Oh, I see. It’s ok to use outside references so long as they help you understand what the texts are talking about. It’s when you use outside sources to better understand what the texts are talking about that’s bad. Makes perfect sense now.

Even the scholars do not agree.

Of course not. The texts are multivalent.

Nonsense the teachings of JESUS and the Apostles are true

So, when the Psalms talk about nature revealing God and God’s purposes, they’re nonsense? Got it. And I guess Jesus using the example of leaven to tell us what God’s kin-dom is like is OK, but nature doesn’t reveal God to us. That, too, makes perfect sense.

I am sorry I do not believe Sirach, Maccabees, Thomas, Esdras, the Shepherd of Hermas are Gods Word as they are sources not included in the bible

What you believe is immaterial. These books (with the exception of Thomas) are included in biblical canon. I guess you don’t believe God’s word. Sucks for you.

According to the scriptures the devils may believe but do not follow God's Word to the glory of God as do those who follow them

Uh huh. That’s what I said.

Your repetitive arguments are getting worse all the time.

 

[3rdAngel]

I don’t believe they say what you say they say.

No, I believe you do not believe what they say. They are Gods Words not mine. You simply do not believe them.

No, I was recapping what you posted. don’t gaslight.

Your denial of the scripture is noted.

Oh, I see. It’s ok to use outside references so long as they help you understand what the texts are talking about. It’s when you use outside sources to better understand what the texts are talking about that’s bad. Makes perfect sense now.

As posted earlier, There is nothing wrong with using dictionaries lexicons and concordences to give you a better understnading of Hebrew and Greek word translations in comparison of the bible translations. Where scholarship falls down is if your relying on it to understand what the scriptures are talking about. Even the scholars do not agree. The only way to know Gods Word is through his Spirit *JOHN 14:26 this is Gods new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:11 to those who continue to believe and follow his Word.

Of course not. The texts are multivalent.

That is my point. You cannot know God's Word unless God is your guide and teacher.

So, when the Psalms talk about nature revealing God and God’s purposes, they’re nonsense? Got it. And I guess Jesus using the example of leaven to tell us what God’s kin-dom is like is OK, but nature doesn’t reveal God to us. That, too, makes perfect sense.

The teachings of JESUS and the Apostles are true. As posted earlier, God love is revealed in truth not in falsehood. Lies come from the father of lies as God cannot lie. As the scriptures teach hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we do not know God and are lying.

What you believe is immaterial. These books (with the exception of Thomas) are included in biblical canon. I guess you don’t believe God’s word. Sucks for you.

I am sorry I do not believe Sirach, Maccabees, Thomas, Esdras, the Shepherd of Hermas are Gods Word as they are sources not included in the bible and are sources not included in the bible as God's Word. As posted earlier if you do not believe the tone of scriptures already provided to you from God's Word there is nothing I can post to you outside of God's Word that will help you to believe Gods Word.

3rdAngel said: ↑ According to the scriptures the devils may believe but do not follow God's Word to the glory of God as do those who follow them

Your response...

Uh huh. That’s what I said. Your repetitive arguments are getting worse all the time.

No. You said no such thing. You have been provided scripture which are God's Words not mine. Your repetitive denial of God's Word is noted but it is God's Word not mine that I believe you do not believe, so I will leave that between you and God to work through.

 

[sojourner]

They are Gods Words not mine. You simply do not believe them

They are your interpretations and I simply don’t believe them.

Your denial of the scripture is noted

Stop gaslighting.

That is my point. You cannot know God's Word unless God is your guide and teacher

I disagree. This is about exegeting human texts, not “knowing” something by magic that we can’t even define well. You have yet to provide adequate answers about what “God’s word” is.

The teachings of JESUS and the Apostles are true

Jesus said that leaven ( a substance found in nature) is like (reveals) the kin-dom of God. But you say that the kin-dom is only revealed through this ineffable “God’s word” that you refuse to define.

I am sorry I do not believe Sirach, Maccabees, Thomas, Esdras, the Shepherd of Hermas are Gods Word as they are sources not included in the bible

I’m sorry. They are included in the Bible (with the exception of Thomas).

No. You said no such thing

Yah, I did. You’re mistaken, just as you are about everything else in this fantasy “reality” you keep posting.