Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[3rdAngel]

But that's just the point. It's not clearly written in the Bible that Sunday is the "first day of the week," so it appears that it's totally arbitrary and our choice. If we choose to make Sunday the "seventh day of the week," then that wouldn't violate any commandments. All I can really say for sure is that I love weekends, of which Sunday is part.

Actually Steve, the days of the week are very clear in God's Word. Day 1 is our Sunday through to day 7 is God's Sabbath. We cannot change the day as God already blessed it and set it aside as a holy day of rest *GENESIS 2:1-3 that he commands us to keep Holy

 

[3rdAngel]

Just putting this up again as we seem to be getting distracted from the OP...

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

 

[PruePhillip]

What we are discussing here is the traditions and teachings of men or the Word of God. Who do we believe and follow. We either have God's Word for our faith or we do not. JESUS says all those who follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:3-9. Something to pray about and seek JESUS for an understanding of his Word in my view.

This is how mad it gets. I told a Jehovah Witness that I remember the 1975 debacle
when JW's believed the end of the world was at hand. This woman said "Well, that's
just man's thinking."
"It was in your Watch Tower" I replied.
Nothing more was said. The lie was deeply internalized in this woman.

And here you are saying the same. The "traditions and teachings of men" in this case
are Jesus and his Apostolic Church. I could imagine you standing in the temple on the
Sabbath, and missing out on seeing the risen Christ who met with his followers in
little homes on the Sunday.

 

[3rdAngel]

This is how mad it gets. I told a Jehovah Witness that I remember the 1975 debacle
when JW's believed the end of the world was at hand. This woman said "Well, that's
just man's thinking."
"It was in your Watch Tower" I replied.
Nothing more was said. The lie was deeply internalized in this woman.

And here you are saying the same. The "traditions and teachings of men" in this case
are Jesus and his Apostolic Church. I could imagine you standing in the temple on the
Sabbath, and missing out on seeing the risen Christ who met with his followers in
little homes on the Sunday.

Not really brother as posted earlier we need to be questioning what we are being taught or what we believe and follow and as the scriptures teach "Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates?" *2 Corinthians 13:5. Are we following God's Word or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says if we knowingly follow man made teachings that break his commandments over the Word of God we are not following him *Matthew 15:3-9.

 

[PruePhillip]

Just putting this up again as we seem to be getting distracted from the OP...

There's a lot of copy and paste here.
ALL the Old Testament is abolished under Jesus.
He came to fulfill the OT, and in doing that, to end it.
John the Baptist was an OT prophet, the last maybe.
Those men in Corinth Acts 19 were the last of John's
followers - they were the last OT people probably that
had to be re-baptized in Jesus name.

No more Jewish Sabbath
No more Jewish Passover
No more Jewish temple and Synagogue
No more Jewish priesthood and Levitical course.
No more daily sacrifice
No more Law of Moses

 

[PruePhillip]

Not really brother as posted earlier we need to be questioning what we are being taught or what we believe and follow and as the scriptures teach "Examine yourselves, whether you be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know you not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except you be reprobates?" *2 Corinthians 13:5. Are we following God's Word or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God. JESUS says if we knowingly follow man made teachings that break his commandments over the Word of God we are not following him *Matthew 15:3-9.

So the Apostles held service on Sunday
and you had your own service on Saturday,
all by yourself?

 

[3rdAngel]

There's a lot of copy and paste here.
ALL the Old Testament is abolished under Jesus.
He came to fulfill the OT, and in doing that, to end it.
John the Baptist was an OT prophet, the last maybe.
Those men in Corinth Acts 19 were the last of John's
followers - they were the last OT people probably that
had to be re-baptized in Jesus name.

No more Jewish Sabbath
No more Jewish Passover
No more Jewish temple and Synagogue
No more Jewish priesthood and Levitical course.
No more daily sacrifice
No more Law of Moses

Not really I just posted it up once again here because no one seems to want to address the OP and we are getting side tracked. You do not seem to know what the old testament is or the new it points to. Happy to share some scriptures on the subject though if your interested? There was no Jew or no sin however when the Sabbath was made for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27, So it is impossible for the Sabbath to be a shadow law from the Mosiac book of the old covenant *Exodus 24:7

 

[3rdAngel]

So the Apostles held service on Sunday
and you had your own service on Saturday,
all by yourself?

Nope the apostles kept the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10; 14:12; 22:14. They also met together everyday of the week from house to house breaking bread *Acts 2:47-48. This meeting together during the week did not abolished God's 4th commandment though did it?

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Hi all,

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

It's less to do with Scripture, and more to do with church history. Most of which is actually actually mentioned in Acts and the letters.

Why Do Christians Worship on Sundays? Sunday Worship vs Sabbath Day

Also, some Christians do actually keep the Sabbath, which is why the whole Sat-Sun thing makes up our weekends. But Sabbath is more about slowing doing and relaxing. Sunday is not a Sabbath (Jesus did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it) but can be used as one. It's the Lord's Day, the day Jesus resurrected.

Jesus believed that Sabbath was a GIFT, a Blessing, NOT A Commandment.

Let's talk about what Sabbath looked like under the Jews of his day. Basically, you would have a group of people condemning you for pulling your cow to market, and in fact condemned Jesus many times for nothing more than healing on the Sabbath. He was quick to point out a law on the books about helping an ox stuck in a ditch. Basically, the Jews had turned into a law what was intended to be a legally enforced Rest Day. In other words, by law the Jews were to be given a day off. But it was THEIR day off. The Jews instead told people who loved to work (or who were desperate for money) that they COULDN'T work.

This was much like the Blue Laws in America long ago (now it mainly concerns alcohol). But if you're a grocery store or restaurant, you can see the trouble wirh this, as people need to eat. And there are hospitals that need to function.

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope the apostles kept the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10; 14:12; 22:14. They also met together everyday of the week from house to house breaking bread *Acts 2:47-48. This meeting together during the week did not abolished God's 4th commandment though did it?

So the Sabbath isn't of significance because every day is a Sabbath?

 

[3rdAngel]

Hi Samantha nice to meet you and thanks for joining us . Some comments added below for your consideration.

It's less to do with Scripture, and more to do with church history. Most of which is actually actually mentioned in Acts and the letters.

Why Do Christians Worship on Sundays? Sunday Worship vs Sabbath Day

Actually none of the scriptures provided in this link show that God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. This is just standard Church teaching that has no basis in the scriptures. Happy to discuss each of the proof texts to show you why if your interested?

Also, some Christians do actually keep the Sabbath, which is why the whole Sat-Sun thing makes up our weekends. But Sabbath is more about slowing doing and relaxing. Sunday is not a Sabbath (Jesus did not come to abolish the law but fulfill it) but can be used as one. It's the Lord's Day, the day Jesus resurrected.

There is also no scripture believe it or not that says "Sunday or the first day of the week" is "THE LORDS DAY" according to the scriptures alone the Sabbath is "THE LORDS DAY" *Matthew 15:3-9.

Jesus believed that Sabbath was a GIFT, a Blessing, NOT A Commandment.

Indeed. He set the "seventh day" aside from all the other days of the week and "blessed" it as a holy day of rest for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27. He also made it one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that is to be written on the heart by faith that works by love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 3:31.

Let's talk about what Sabbath looked like under the Jews of his day. Basically, you would have a group of people condemning you for pulling your cow to market, and in fact condemned Jesus many times for nothing more than healing on the Sabbath. He was quick to point out a law on the books about helping an ox stuck in a ditch. Basically, the Jews had turned into a law what was intended to be a legally enforced Rest Day. In other words, by law the Jews were to be given a day off. But it was THEIR day off. The Jews instead told people who loved to work (or who were desperate for money) that they COULDN'T work.

Yet JESUS came to teach us how to correctly keep the Sabbath and taught that he made the Sabbath for man and not man for the Sabbath *Mark 2:27 and it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath day *Matthew 12:1-12

Thanks Sam but you have not provided any scripture here that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. This is a man made teaching that breaks the commandments of God and is not biblical which JESUS warns us about *Matthew 15:3-9

Let me know if you wish to discuss the scriptures listed in your link? Happy to do so if your interested.

God bless[/QUOTE]

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope the apostles kept the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10; 14:12; 22:14. They also met together everyday of the week from house to house breaking bread *Acts 2:47-48. This meeting together during the week did not abolished God's 4th commandment though did it?

Yes, I think you would have missed those little gatherings because you
were observing Moses' Sabbath. And if still respecting the law of Moses
then you wouldn't have been in that home service, but in the temple.

 

[3rdAngel]

So the Sabbath isn't of significance because every day is a Sabbath?

That is not what I posted brother. The scripture were posted to show that the disciples met every day of the week. That does not mean every day of the week is now a holy day *Acts 2:47-48. Just the same as it does not mean God's 4th commandment is now abolished.

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes, I think you would have missed those little gatherings because you
were observing Moses' Sabbath. And if still respecting the law of Moses
then you wouldn't have been in that home service, but in the temple.

Seems you are confused again brother. The 10 commandments are the law of God written on two tables of stone by the finger of God *Exodus 32:16. Moses did not write them. He wrote the shadow laws in the book of the Covenant *Exodus 24:7.

 

[3rdAngel]

I may have to go for a while all. Thanks very much though for the freindly discussion. I will pop back in latter to catch up. Bye for now

God bless

 

[sealchan]

Beliefs this rigid don't seem healthy. From Jesus' attitude: "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" so I don't think God would care if man needed the Sabbath to be on Tuesday, for example, as long as a day is set aside.

Yes...Jesus clearly argued in many, many of his teachings for sincerity of belief over the appearance of complying legalistically. The OP evidences the very illness that Jesus came to cure.

Hebrews 10:16

 

[wellwisher]

Sunday is the first day of creation; let there be light. This day was dedicated to the Sun (day) or Son (day). Saturday was the day of rest. Changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday was symbolic of second cycle of creation, that begins anew on the day of the Son.

Saturday ended the first cycle; day of rest, while Sunday began a new dispensation, connected to the spirit of truth. This cycle of creation is connected to the Holy Spirit of God and the revealing of the children of God. Christ dying on the cross was not an ending; a Sabbath rest, but was also a new beginning. If he did not go, he could not leave behind the Comforter.

Right now we have the Old Testament and New Testament. But the bible should be a trinity of books, with a third book needing to be compiled. The last 2000 years has had many changes, led by God's spirit of truth being among mankind.

 

[calm]

Who was it that "clearly proved" this?

The Bible.

When Was Jesus Christ Crucified and Resurrected? : Did He Really Die on Good Friday and Come Back to Life on Easter Sunday?

 

[sealchan]

Hi exchemist nice to meet you .

In the days of JESUS and the Disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures so everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures comes from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures. The point being made here is that much of the NEW TESTAMENT has direct links and is directly quoting OLD TESTAMENT scripture which with a prayerful study of God's Word can help us understand the meanings and context of what is being discussed in the NEW TESTAMENT which in many cases are a fulfillment of the OLD SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

The new testament does not do away with the old testament, together they make up the Word of God that are the two great witnesses that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind.

As posted earlier Gods ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. ISREAL and JEWS and Gentiles believers in the new covenant are all a part of Gods ISRAEL and this is who the NEW covenant applies to.

HEBREWS 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and again "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29.

Gentiles believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27

God bless

So when a law is written into your heart does that mean that your heart is bound to a rule or that you no longer need the rule because you deeply understand the value underlying the rule?

This url provides multiple Scriptural examples of Jesus' teaching about the heart of the law over the letter...

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 12 - Common English Bible

The law is a sign post leading the way to righteousness but we must walk far past this signpost for us to arrive at the kingdom of heaven.

Sincerity of heart trumps all outward appearances. There are too many scriptures to count let alone for me to cut and paste on my phone.

Even Jesus' apostles were confused by his words. That is because they were still trying to grasp his meaning legalistically rather than with their hearts.

A Christian takes a job requiring that they work weekends. They avoid work on one of their days off (let's say Tuesday). Do you find fault with them or recognize their sincerity and righteousness?

 

[Katzpur]

The Bible.

When Was Jesus Christ Crucified and Resurrected? : Did He Really Die on Good Friday and Come Back to Life on Easter Sunday?

Well, the Bible says that He was to be resurrected on the third day following His death. Neither Saturday nor Sunday was the third day following Friday. Maybe He was crucified on a Thursday. I mean, there are a lot of holes in the "three day" thing, no matter how you look at it.