Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[Thief]

There is nothing wrong with man made teachings and traditions if they are according to God's Word.

but if the words ARE God's Word.....then the words are not man made traditions

I am not given to ceremony and ritual
I have no congregation to follow
and no one follows me

no litany of prayer
no beads for your hand
no rug for your knee
no little cap for your head

I have no religion
I believe God and heaven don't care such tings

 

[3rdAngel]

but if the words ARE God's Word.....then the words are not man made traditions

I am not given to ceremony and ritual
I have no congregation to follow
and no one follows me

no litany of prayer
no beads for your hand
no rug for your knee
no little cap for your head

I have no religion
I believe God and heaven don't care such tings

The Word of God teaches against following man made traditions that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9

 

[3rdAngel]

Just putting this up again as we seem to be getting distracted from the OP...

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

...................

Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
[3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
[4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
[5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
[6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
[7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
[8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
[9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

Look forward to your thoughts...

 

[Stevicus]

Many have asked the question, my calendar begins on Monday, doesn’t that make Sunday the seventh day of the week? It is true that many calendars begin on Monday, but some calendars around the world begin on Friday, Saturday or Sunday as well. The answer to this can be found by studying the linguistics or meaning of each day’s name, rather than only looking at the order of the days printed on paper. Any human can change the order of a printed calendar, but it is a lot harder to change every language in the world.

I think this is the crux of my whole point. Different cultures have had different ways of marking time and counting days. It's certainly a fascinating topic - all these different cultures with their own calendars and measuring systems. But ultimately, it's all man-made.

Likewise, the creation of Saturday and Sunday as the "weekend" is also man-made. The 4th commandment says we have to work 6 days a week and only take one day off, but in modern times, people typically have two days off per week.

As to the overall question you're asking in this thread, I think the only real answer is that some people aren't such sticklers for technicalities and literal interpretations of the letter of the law. Some people think more in terms of the spirit of the law.

 

[3rdAngel]

As to the overall question you're asking in this thread, I think the only real answer is that some people aren't such sticklers for technicalities and literal interpretations of the letter of the law. Some people think more in terms of the spirit of the law.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here Steve, yes it is an interesting topic for sure and an example of man made teachings and traditions. As to the Spirit of the law? Can we have the Spirit of the law without first having the letter of the law when the Spirit works through the letter and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God *Romans 10:17? The words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *John 6:63. We are Sanctified through the truth: God's word is truth *John 17:17. There is no Spirit of the law without first knowing the letter of the law. The Spirit works through the Word of God.

 

[Stevicus]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here Steve, yes it is an interesting topic for sure and an example of man made teachings and traditions. As to the Spirit of the law? Can we have the Spirit of the law without first having the letter of the law when the Spirit works through the letter and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God *Romans 10:17? The words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *John 6:63. We are Sanctified through your truth: God's word is truth *John 17:17. There is no Spirit of the law without first knowing the letter of the law. The Spirit works through the Word of God.

I would say it's more a matter of understanding the goal of the law in the first place. For example, we have laws regarding speed limits. The letter of the law simply involves a number and whether or not someone was going over the speed limit. The spirit of the law is that everyone should drive reasonably and prudently, with a goal of public safety. So, even if someone is going a bit over the limit, they could reasonably argue that they were still driving safely and prudently. Conversely, the traffic conditions could be such that even driving under the speed limit could be considered unreasonable and imprudent, so within the same spirit of the law, someone could still be in violation even if they were following the letter of the law.

Likewise, in this instance, as long as one day is set aside per week to honor God and keep holy, then isn't that still within the spirit of the law? Even if it's not on that one certain day?

In any case, if we're talking about following the letter of the law, then this is the directive we're talking about:

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Let's set aside the fact that in our society, the five-day work week is standard, and as a result, most people are already in violation of the letter of the law by not working six days per week.

But other than that, most people aren't working on Saturday anyway, which is the primary stipulation here. Of course, people can easily remember it and "keep it holy," depending on how one interprets that part of it. It doesn't say anything specifically about going to church or performing any specific rituals, at least in terms of the letter of this law. So, I would submit that people are following the letter of the law in this case, even if they go to church on Sunday.

Your assertion that some people are violating the 4th commandment doesn't appear to rest in the fact that many people attend church services on Sunday. It seems more related to the fact that they're not working six days a week and taking Sunday as a day off.

 

[3rdAngel]

I would say it's more a matter of understanding the goal of the law in the first place. For example, we have laws regarding speed limits. The letter of the law simply involves a number and whether or not someone was going over the speed limit. The spirit of the law is that everyone should drive reasonably and prudently, with a goal of public safety. So, even if someone is going a bit over the limit, they could reasonably argue that they were still driving safely and prudently. Conversely, the traffic conditions could be such that even driving under the speed limit could be considered unreasonable and imprudent, so within the same spirit of the law, someone could still be in violation even if they were following the letter of the law.

Likewise, in this instance, as long as one day is set aside per week to honor God and keep holy, then isn't that still within the spirit of the law? Even if it's not on that one certain day?

In any case, if we're talking about following the letter of the law, then this is the directive we're talking about:

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Let's set aside the fact that in our society, the five-day work week is standard, and as a result, most people are already in violation of the letter of the law by not working six days per week.

But other than that, most people aren't working on Saturday anyway, which is the primary stipulation here. Of course, people can easily remember it and "keep it holy," depending on how one interprets that part of it. It doesn't say anything specifically about going to church or performing any specific rituals, at least in terms of the letter of this law. So, I would submit that people are following the letter of the law in this case, even if they go to church on Sunday.

Your assertion that some people are violating the 4th commandment doesn't appear to rest in the fact that many people attend church services on Sunday. It seems more related to the fact that they're not working six days a week and taking Sunday as a day off.

There is no assertion. I have only provided God's Word. It is God's Word not mine that says God's 4th commandment is the seventh day of the week that God has set apart from all the other days of the week as a Holy day of rest *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that define what sin is when broken *James 2:10-11

According to God's Word all those who knowingly practice sin will not enter the kingdom of heave because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-39.

God has his people in every Church *John 10:16 and knows that his people have been led astray by these Churches and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow him *Acts 17:30-31. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions *Matthew 15:3-9 back to the pure Word of God *John 4:23-24; Revelation 18:1-4

The question as Christians is who do we beleive and follow; the teachings and traditions of men of the Word of God?

God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *John 10:26-27

 

[Stevicus]

There is no assertion. I have only provided God's Word. It is God's Word not mine that says God's 4th commandment is the seventh day of the week that God has set apart from all the other days of the week as a Holy day of rest *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11.

And if they're resting on that day and not working, are they not obeying that commandment?

 

[3rdAngel]

And if they're resting on that day and not working, are they not obeying that commandment?

Depends what you mean by resting as resting according to the 4th commandment means not just secular business but also domestic, buying and selling, shopping and anything that is for your own benefit and pleasure. So if your doing any of those things on Sunday it is not resting according to the commandment.

 

[3rdAngel]

When does YOUR Sabbath actually begin?

According to the scriptures (God's time) as shown in Genesis 1. Gods Sabbath begins Friday sunset and finishes Saturday sunset.

God bless

 

[74x12]

You were provided many scriptures about JESUS teaching us how to keep the Sabbath correctly *Matthew 12:1-12, even scripture showing that JESUS is the creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind *Mark 2:27-28. Does not seem to make any sense on your part of your trying to argue that there is no sabbath in the New Covenant when JESUS is teaching us to to keep it correctly now does it. You were also provided scripture outside of the Gospels that show the disciples keeping the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment after the death and resurrection of JESUS in the new covenant * Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10. You seem to be just ignoring the scriptures provided with your words which are not God's Word.

There is a difference between knowledge and understanding. Knowledge must be understood in order to be useful. Knowledge alone is without fruit and indeed if we don't understand it is said that the fowls of the air come and steal the seed (of knowledge of the Word) out of our heart before it can grow. That is the danger of hearing without understanding.

And the fruit of both knowledge and understanding is wisdom. Which is not just knowing and not just understanding; but most importantly doing. That is true wisdom. Because even if a man knew nothing but he always did those things that are Lawful; then would he not be counted as obedient to the Law; yet without knowledge? So he has true wisdom.

No offense to you. It seems you follow the 7th day Adventist doctrines. What if there is more that God could show you and make you understand?

As you may already know; the scriptures cannot be understood unless it is through the Spirit of God who alone knows the thoughts of God. (1 Corinthians 2:11) Because it is by this same Spirit that the prophets of old spoke and then wrote the scriptures. (2 Timothy 3:16) And it is by this Spirit (alone) that we may understand them.

What is shows is that Paul kept the Sabbath. Acts 18:4 was also given to you with other scriptures showing that the disciples after the death and resurrection of JESUS in the new covenant kept the Sabbath *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2. Seems you say; well those set of scripture of JEsus teaching us that he is the creator of the Sabbath and teaching us how to keep the Sabbath correctly cannot be right because it was before the new covenant, than when you are provided scripture of the disciples keeping God's 4th commandment Sabbath in the new covenant your simply looking for excuses not to believe God's Word with your words.

Can you see your error here brother? No scripture has been misrepresented at all. These are God's Word not mine.

May you receive God's Word and be blessed.

Jesus said

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."'

What rest do you think Jesus is speaking about? Your sabbath days every week? Or does Jesus speak of some other rest?

Isaiah 28:11-12
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

 

[Stevicus]

Depends what you mean by resting as resting according to the 4th commandment means not just secular business but also domestic, buying and selling, shopping and anything that is for your own benefit and pleasure. So if your doing any of those things on Sunday it is not resting according to the commandment.

Well, I guess some people might be violating it, if they watch sports on TV. A lot of people go shopping since the weekend is when they have time to do it.

My dad told me that his parents were pretty strict about it. Nobody could do anything on Sunday. They couldn't listen to the radio or even do their homework for school. They did have Sunday dinner, though, and read from the Bible. But my dad never did that at home with us, as he changed religions a few times and wasn't quite as devout as my grandparents.

I think some religions have adjusted to modern society where there are some jobs which require someone be on duty. Some people have to work on the weekends for extra money. Maybe they figure God will understand.

 

[3rdAngel]

Well, I guess some people might be violating it, if they watch sports on TV. A lot of people go shopping since the weekend is when they have time to do it.

My dad told me that his parents were pretty strict about it. Nobody could do anything on Sunday. They couldn't listen to the radio or even do their homework for school. They did have Sunday dinner, though, and read from the Bible. But my dad never did that at home with us, as he changed religions a few times and wasn't quite as devout as my grandparents.

I think some religions have adjusted to modern society where there are some jobs which require someone be on duty. Some people have to work on the weekends for extra money. Maybe they figure God will understand.

Thanks for sharing your experience Steve. It is a mess for sure. The way I see it is that this is the fault of many churches that have departed from Gods' Word and teaching man made teachings and traditions that are not biblical. I believe God has people in all the churches living up to all the knowledge God has revealed to them. But the hour is coming and now is that God is calling his people out from following false teachings and man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God back to the pure word of God as God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth.

 

[metis]

Some seem to forget that the NT was not written until decades after Jesus was crucified, thus it was the Church itself, not the scriptures, that was the "scarlet thread that binds", to use Origen's words.

Also, it was the Church, not the Bible itself, that chose the canon that most Christians use today, and that wasn't decided upon until the 4th century, with certain books not decided upon until much later.

Also, Paul told the flock to use the traditions that the Twelve and their appointees had left us, thus not all teachings were found in the books that eventually became the canon.

Finally, Jesus' message was really quite simple as when he answer the question "Which is the greatest Commandment of all?" The Sermon On the Mount, Matthew ch. 12-14 quite well spells this out, along with some additional details. Or, to put it another way, his teaching for us to "love one another as I have loved you" is what he mandates us to do, not out of a burden but out of love for him, God, and God's entire creation.

 

[tayla]

The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

You are correct. The New Testament nowhere says this.

 

[Milton Platt]

There are many Churches teaching man made teachings and traditions that are not biblical. God's people are in every Church living up to all the knowledge he has revealed to them. God is calling us to come out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and to worship him in Spirit and in truth back to the pure Word of God.

Do you follow all of Old Testament law?

 

[3rdAngel]

You are correct. The New Testament nowhere says this.

Thank you one honest person. Why are those in the Churches who profess God's WORD following man made teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God from the very God they profess to worship and follow when he even warns his people from doing so in Matthew 15:3-9? Seems many Christian religions profess to follow God's Word in their own words but in their actions deny him.

 

[3rdAngel]

Do you follow all of Old Testament law?

The Old testament in the days of JESUS and the Apostles was their bible. Everything we have today in the new testament/covenant scriptures come from the old testament and together they make up the Word of God that point to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant. Together these are the two great witnesses the testify of JESUS and God's plan of salvation for mankind and we are to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God *Matthew 4:4

 

[Cooky]

According to the scriptures (God's time) as shown in Genesis 1. Gods Sabbath begins Friday sunset and finishes Saturday sunset.

God bless

So that means we can't party on Friday nights?

...That would be a total bummer. Because I have big plans for tonight -to get ripped... And then conveniently sleep in tomorrow.

 

[3rdAngel]

So that means we can't party on Friday nights?

...That would be a total bummer. Because I have big plans for tonight -to get ripped... And then conveniently sleep in tomorrow.

If you trust in God's Word brother he will show you a better lifestyle where you will not need to feel that you need to get ripped in order to find happiness.

God bless