Man sentenced to death for sorcery.

[Caladan]

I was speaking about your background, being an atheist, that will prevent you from seeing how religion can work well in the state affairs.

Why would it? the Muslim model is not the only model in the world. there are religious elements in my society who want to expand their influence, and the secular sector wants to counter their influence. further more as someone who lives in the middle east, the politicization of Islam in state affairs is a relevant case study I observe, as im part of a social element in the region which promotes opposite views. I promote opposite views not because I don't understand religion and state affairs, but because I witness what it does to societies in the middle east, and to some extent it is something that the secular sector is fighting against in Israel.

You will just reject the whole idea of laws coming from God which should be applied in our lives. Can you see my point now?

Of course I reject it. I want relevant laws based on human experience. not archaic traditions masquerading to be relevant to the social dilemmas of our time.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

so ,you think that the effect of the spell-if exists- is not strong enough to be measured...and breaking the spell is only a placebo ?!

I don't think it exists at all, but my opinion shouldn't affect the results of the study. That's the beauty of science. My point is that if magic spells have some significant effect on people's health, this should be measurable. If we can't measure any effect, then either magic spells don't exist, or they exist but they are so rare and weak that they have no practical effect on people's health, there is no sense worrying about them.

you didn't provide studies that support your position ,though....i guess i might do those studies myself oneday

You absolutely should! To my knowledge there is no equivalent of a Skeptics Society in Egypt or Saudi Arabia, so I don't know if I can find many studies which specifically study the effect of "magic spells" exactly as they are believed in those countries. I can show you studies on the effects of intercessory prayer, and many different kinds of "no touch" healing where practitioners believe they are "manipulating energy fields" or "spiritually healing" the patient, etc. This doesn't prove "magic spells" as they are specifically imagined and practiced in Egypt are nonsense. But, it does support my hypothesis that all "magic" phenomena in all cultures belong in the same category, they are all matters of belief and imagination, not real "spells" or "energy fields" or "evil spirits", etc. To prove or disprove this hypothesis in regards to the Egyptian versions of spells and magic, we would have to do a controlled study, maybe many controlled studies.

Maybe you will be the one to start a scientific study of these phenomena in Egypt and prove me wrong.

Don't you agree, maro, that even if there is a real phenomenon, SOME cases of alleged magical spells are actually cases of fraud or self-deception or misapprehension?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

England my lionheart quoted the Saudi News Agency as saying that Mr. Sibat was on pilgrimage:

Sabot once entered Saudi Arabia in May 2008 to perform Umrah, was stopped by members of "the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice," and sentenced to death in November, right in November 2009 after being accused of witchcraft by a satellite channel

[emphasis added]

Is this an accurate translation? Why does the Saudi News Agency say he was on pilgrimage when certain Saudi authorities (I believe Tashan quoted them) originally said he wasn't really on pilgrimage?

Does this mean we have resolved the issue, we know that Mr. Sibat was on pilgrimage after all?

 

[TashaN]

From the Saudi News agency:

Stop the execution of the death sentence against a magician channel Scheherazade "on sabot once" in Saudi Arabia and his wife invokes the mercy of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques for his release ..​

​

Do you have a link?

 

[England my lionheart]

Had to swap computers to get this http://www.news-sa.com/ hope it works

 

[TashaN]

Had to swap computers to get this http://www.news-sa.com/ hope it works

Yeah it did, but it's in Arabic. Where is the English version? Or you got it from another website?

 

[England my lionheart]

Yeah it did, but it's in Arabic. Where is the English version? Or you got it from another website?

On my Google toolbar there is a translate tab

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The Daily Star of Lebanon and the Gulf Times of Qatar also report that he was on pilgrimage.
The Daily Star - Politics - Saudi 'witchcraft' beheading postponed
Gulf Times – Qatar’s top-selling English daily newspaper - Gulf/Arab World

 

[TashaN]

BTW I'm not even asking Saudi Arabia to change their laws on sorcery. I'm joining human rights groups, Mr. Sibat's lawyer and his wife, and the nation of Lebanon in asking, yes asking not forcing, the Saudi royals to step in on this case. They are allowed to do that under Saudi law unless I am mistaken. I would ask them to accept the ruling of the Saudi appeals court, which said Mr. Sibat should be given the opportunity to repent especially now that he has served over 2 years in prison with execution hanging over his head, and he could then be allowed to return to Lebanon, where I emphasize he had previously committed no crime.

I read somewhere at the site Lion gave me that a session consisted of three judges will be formed to ask Sibat for repentance.

Why would it? the Muslim model is not the only model in the world. there are religious elements in my society who want to expand their influence, and the secular sector wants to counter their influence. further more as someone who lives in the middle east, the politicization of Islam in state affairs is a relevant case study I observe, as im part of a social element in the region which promotes opposite views. I promote opposite views not because I don't understand religion and state affairs, but because I witness what it does to societies in the middle east, and to some extent it is something that the secular sector is fighting against in Israel.

Muslim countries are not in their best shape, and that's something both, non-Muslims and Muslims can see clearly. That's why many of them failed to be a true Islamic state. That doesn't mean there won't be a chance in the future to build an Islamic state which will be fair and successful. Also, with all due respect, you can't compare the religious movements in Israel with the Islamic or even the Christian one. As far as i know, Jews had no experience what so ever with a full state or great civilizations before the establishment of Israel. They always have been just another minority and part of the civilizations.

Of course I reject it. I want relevant laws based on human experience. not archaic traditions masquerading to be relevant to the social dilemmas of our time.

And who told you that a government with religious values can't have relevant laws?

Just because something is old, that doesn't mean it can't work, or that it can't be crystallized to be more modern and more relevant as years goes by.

 

[Xafwak]

Gah! There goes my vacation in Arabia.

 

[blackout]

Gah! There goes my vacation in Arabia.

If you like your head. :yes:

 

[England my lionheart]

Quote Tashan:
Just because something is old, that doesn't mean it can't work, or that it can't be crystallized to be more modern and more relevant as years goes by.

Is that possible,can Sharia modernise,i thought this was a no go for revivalists

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Update as of April 23:

May El Khansa said that Lebanon's justice minister met with Saudi Arabia's ambassador to Lebanon this week in an effort to spare the life of her client, Ali Hussain Sibat.

The Saudi ambassador told Lebanon's justice minister, Ibrahim Najjar, that Sibat wouldn't be beheaded because a final verdict had not been reached, El Khansa said, citing an account of the conversation that she received from the Lebanese justice minister.

From Lawyer hopeful accused sorcerer will avoid execution – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs