Man to Man... or Woman

[JesusKnowsYou]

So, you just clarified that you are saying that it's sinful or evil. Apparently, I'm not as ignorant as you, but my ignorance is irrelevant anyway. My conclusion is based on what you said.



If you believe that I have misrepresented what you said, then it is due to your ignorance of what "sin" is, that have made you to not see and/or understand what you said about the act and not believe it to be sinful.

Sin requires accountability - which requires knowledge and understanding.

It is similar to a concept of law known as "mens rea".

We can offend God by our actions without committing sin.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

The brains of trans people more closely resemble the brain of the gender the person claims to be. What more do you want, honestly? Do you believe that sex organs trump one's brain activity? One's inner mental experience of the self? The neurons firing in the brain that have patterns of the other gender? Should I just ignore everything that you say and call it illegitimate because it comes from your own mind? Your religion is all in your head so I guess I can just denounce that? You have no physical evidence of your god so I'll just denounce that? You have no physical evidence of your emotions so they don't exist. I guess sex is all about physical pleasure, instead of mental and emotional?

You have every right to denounce my faith.

Our brains are extremely malleable to the point where practically everything we do or don't do can change its activity.

For example, sugar and caffeine can completely change how the neurons in our brains fire.

A pessimist is going to have different brain activity than an optimist.

How much exercise, sleep and meditation we get can also affect how our brains operate.

This is not even touching the idea of suggestion that we are open to.

Basically - if a boy tells himself that he is a girl enough times - what effect would that have on his brain?

What if his parents and teachers are also telling him that he is a girl?

Besides - our brain activity does not justify anything.

Someone who suffers from depression or sex addiction will have different brain activity than you or me - but does that mean they are just destined to be depressed and addicted to sex?

There is never any reason to change how our brains operate?

It is much easier - and makes infinitely more sense - to change our brains than mutilate our bodies.

Because one is supposed to change while the other is not.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

This argument about gender is an argument that only exists within pagan gnosticism. In order to engage with it you have to accept the premise that gender exists independently of sex. Up until 1963, when the word "gender" was redefined by feminists, no one in the whole world believed that gender existed independently of sex.

IMO it's an argument that Christians aren't called to engage in, because it requires subscribing to a fundamentally false premise that is antithetical to Christianity. Have regard to Titus 1:15 before you continue your futile and purposeless debate.

Well said.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Wait... What?
@JesusKnowsYou did you just kill someone's cat?

You'd think so - if not their grandma.

Which - in 2020 - some people will believe are one and the same.

 

[Rival]

I've still been given no reason from the opposing side why they believe transitioning is a sin, or wrong, or anything remotely bad.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I've still been given no reason from the opposing side as to why they believe transitioning is a sin, or wrong, or anything remotely bad.

Barring religious reasons - undue burden on the tax payer and the individual who is transitioning, the massive suicide rate remaining unaffected by transitioning, unethical practice of telling patients to give into their delusions, taking advantage of the delusional (huge cash grab), unfulfilled expectations for the patient - and general love of my fellow human beings.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I didnt link to a book, I linked to two articles.

Rival already quoted from the first article - the brains of trans people more closely resemble the brains of the gender they identify with, from young age.

So let's cut to the chase. Your claim was, "The idea that someone is born the wrong gender has no scientific basis."

What evidence would falsify that view? What would convince you that people have genitalia and sex chromosomes of one sex, but a brain that more closely matches the opposite sex?

That second article was pretty long and the first didn't even link to anything but a homepage - not a study.

It doesn't matter how long a source is - if you want to make a claim - quote that **** - like Rival did.

And you should read my post to Rival - or gain general knowledge on how our brains work - to understand that this "proof" is not as definitive as you have been led to believe.

 

[Rival]

undue burden on the tax payer

Oh so this is all about you? Not about having compassion for the individual who needs medical help.

and the individual who is transitioning

That's the person's choice.

the massive suicide rate remaining unaffected by transitioning,

This suicide rate is not just because of being trans. It's generally because of associated reasons such as:

Depression.
Not being socially accepted/mocked/bullied/hurt.
Rejection by parents and other kin.
Anxiety

And on.

unethical practice of telling patients to give into their delusions

Except it's not a delusion.

taking advantage of the delusional (huge cash grab),

See above.

unfulfilled expectations for the patient

Most trans people have done extensive research on this. They know better than anyone the results to expect.

 

[nPeace]

You'd think so - if not their grandma.

Which - in 2020 - some people will believe are one and the same.

Grandma would be an ancient cat though.

 

[nPeace]

I've still been given no reason from the opposing side why they believe transitioning is a sin, or wrong, or anything remotely bad.

Evidently this would be accurate if it read... "I've still been given no reason - that I accept - from the opposing side why they believe transitioning is a sin, or wrong, or anything remotely bad."

 

[Rival]

Evidently this would be accurate if it read... "I've still been given no reason - that I accept - from the opposing side why they believe transitioning is a sin, or wrong, or anything remotely bad."

We'll see, then.

What are your bare bones reasons?

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Oh so this is all about you? Not about having compassion for the individual who needs medical help.

Not when I'm convinced it is all based on lies.

That's the person's choice.

Again - what if it is all based on lies?

This suicide rate is not just because of being trans. It's generally because of associated reasons such as:

Depression.
Not being socially accepted/mocked/bullied/hurt.
Rejection by parents and other kin.
Anxiety

And on.

The rate of suicide among transgender individuals in the US is higher than that of Jewish inmates in Nazi-occupied Germany.

The depression and anxiety could be other symptoms of mental illness.

Except it's not a delusion.

It meets the criteria in every respect - except that transgenderism can be used for political and financia

Most trans people have done extensive research. They know better than anyone the results to expect.

Then the suicide rate would change for the better - but it isn't.

And the rate of those wanting to detransition would decrease - but it is increasing.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

Grandma would be an ancient cat though.

Not necessarily.

Don't forget about the possibility of reincarnation!

 

[nPeace]

I'm bowing out of this thread until things cool a bit. It's getting unnecessary hot in here, imo.
Later.

 

[Rival]

Not when I'm convinced it is all based on lies.

Other people who know more than you on this subject aren't convinced. So I'd like to know what you know that they don't.

Again - what if it is all based on lies?

What if it's not? And even if it is, who cares? It's not up to you.

The rate of suicide among transgender individuals in the US is higher than that of Jewish inmates in Nazi-occupied Germany.

The depression and anxiety could be other symptoms of mental illness.

In other words, it's still not all down just to being trans.

It meets the criteria in every respect - except that transgenderism can be used for political and financia

Just like religion.

Then the suicide rate would change for the better - but it isn't.

And the rate of those wanting to detransition would decrease - but it is increasing.

You are being way too black and white about why suicides happen within the trans community. Folks kill themselves for all manner of reasons. One huge reason trans folk jump off bridges is because of people like you who refuse to even have the common decency of recognising their identity.

Yes, it will increase because now more people are questioning their gender identities since it became acceptable for them to do so, and some make mistakes, especially teenagers who make up the majority of those who detransition.

 

[nPeace]

We'll see, then.

What are your bare bones reasons?

Sorry Rival. No repeats from me. What has been said already has caused much tension. I have no desire to stretch, or repeat.
...and, as I said, it's unnecessarily hot in here.
If anything, I will return when the fire stops flickering... or there is reason to.

 

[Rival]

Sorry Riva. No repeats from me. What has been said already has caused much tension. I have no desire to stretch, or repeat.
...and, as I said, it's unnecessarily hot in here.
If anything, I will return when the fire stops flickering.

Enjoy the rest of your day, bro.

 

[Left Coast]

That second article was pretty long and the first didn't even link to anything but a homepage - not a study.

It doesn't matter how long a source is - if you want to make a claim - quote that sh*t - like Rival did.

And you should read my post to Rival - or gain general knowledge on how our brains work - to understand that this "proof" is not as definitive as you have been led to believe.

The first source was what Rival already quoted for you.

An answer to my question is conspicuously absent.

On "gaining general knowledge of how brains work" - I have a Bachelor's in Psychology, you?

Your caricature of trans people in your reply to Rival - that they somehow convince themselves through repetition that their internal gender doesn't match their external body/genitalia - reflects a deep misunderstanding of trans people. Same mistake people make who think people choose to be gay.

Please gain basic understanding of LGBTQ experiences and psychology before you opine further.

 

[nPeace]

Enjoy the rest of your day, bro.

You likewise, and take care .

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't recall saying this.

I said that a person who was born a biological female does not have a penis.

No - because my "standard" is purely on biological lines.

A biological man will always be a man - whether or not he keeps his penis.

Poor guy.

Convenient for you to know insert biology into it. But facta are after Frank offered to compare beards you did offer penis as a measurement of being male. It obviously doesn't quite nicely work like that. Neither does saying biological male, because that can be problematic as well.